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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: plains203 on December 26, 2013, 01:08:19 AM
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I have been trying to find a suitable recorder for recording sermons. It will sit at the sound desk and record from a 3.5mm line out. I want to record to SD cards and it would be nice if it was batter backed up, so if the power is pulled while recording the recording doesn't get lost. An option to bookmark the recording would be good. A built-in compressor would be nice but not a necessity. Can be a portable recorder or desk based. Built-in Mics are not required and no need to record higher then 16/44.1 wav. I have been having trouble finding a suitable device. I did try the Tascam DP-03 however this device is useless. It's compressor is applied post recording in a real time operation. The recordings don't seem to be direct to SD and transferring them to SD takes an age.
Thanks
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If I was trying to do what you describe I would reach for my Sony M10. There are a lot of quality devices in that general price and feature range. Have you looked at the M10? Or am I misunderstanding your requirements?
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Since you don't need portability, have you considered using a laptop and your recording software of choice? You wouldn't have to transfer from any memory card and you'd be covered in case of a power outage. Since it's spoken voice, you could just grab a USB powered blog-style microphone which would also be powered by the laptop. I'm assuming that you could also supply compression along your DSP chain.
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The problem with laptop recording is the mic jack--usually mono and cheap and noisy. You can get an external USB sound card with a mic and line input, of course, but I still tend to think, perhaps superstitiously, that a recorder built for the purpose is more reliable.
Just about any little digital recorder should be able to do this--the Sony PCM-M10 among them, which has a 3.5mm line-in jack. It has a track marking button (what I assume you are talking about with bookmarks--silent markers you can place in the recording) and it has a built-in "Divide" function that allows you to make separate files at the track marks if you wish.
It also has a Limiter to catch sudden emergency overloads. Better to apply compression afterwards, which is certainly easy enough with free software like Audacity.
It records to microSD, not SD, but you could simply put the microSD into the SD adapter that probably came with it.
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Just about any little digital recorder should be able to do this--
There are a large amount of portable and semi portable decks that would work very well. I wouldn't bother with the Sony as it has a finicky micro SD card, and there are so many other fine decks to choose from which accept SD cards. Lots of Tascam (DR-05, DR 07, DR100mkII come right to mind), decks as well as Roland (R-05) and Olympus (LS 10, 11 100,and others), just to name a few.
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Just about any little digital recorder should be able to do this--
There are a large amount of portable and semi portable decks that would work very well. I wouldn't bother with the Sony as it has a finicky micro SD card, and there are so many other fine decks to choose from which accept SD cards. Lots of Tascam (DR-05, DR 07, DR100mkII come right to mind), decks as well as Roland (R-05) and Olympus (LS 10, 11 100,and others), just to name a few.
Tascam DR-05 Recording Media: microSD/SDHC Flash Memory Cards (64MB to 32GB)
Tascam DR-07mkII Recording/Reading Methods: microSD or microSDHC Card (64MB to 32GB)
Roland R-05 Recording Media: probably SD
Olympus LS 10 Recording Media: Flash Drive or SD Card
Olympus LS-11 Recording Media: Internal Memory or SD/SDHC Card
Olympus LS-100 recording media: don't know
So if you're complaining about the microSD card (weak complaint in itself), you need to rule out 2 of the 6 recorders you listed.
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Since you don't need portable, I'd go with a rack unit.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/709639-REG/Denon_DN_F450R_DN_F450R_Rackmount_Solid_State_Digital.html
3.5 mm to Stereo RCA cable for connections.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/909159-REG/comprehensive_mps_2pp_6st_3_5mm_stereo_mini_plug.html
No need to limit yourself to 3.5mm input.
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Ummm, I've recorded a lot of sermons. There are a variety of ways to do it. One option is to run the SBD line out through an interface (Focusrite 2i2 works well) directly into a computer running Audacity (free). Then no batteries are involved. Install this package, and do your compressing after recording: http://acoustica1.cachefly.net/other/Classic-Effects-Installer.exe. The compressor in that package works very well.
I wouldn't install an external compressor because people have a tendency to twist knobs a bit more than they should, and then you end up with live audio problems and a bad recording, too. You just have to dial the pastor in so he doesn't clip or ride the fader on his mic.
If there is some reason to have an external recorder instead of an interface/computer, the Sony M10 has excellent battery life and is a very fine recorder. You could probably run it all week on a good set of batteries. You can hook it up to a PC via USB cable and download or put the microSDHC card into an adapter and download from that.
A lot of the poor sermon recordings on the internet have to do with reducing the file size too much so the sermon will download onto places like sermon central. You need a good quality recording to start with, and then don't reduce the file size too much. That will ruin an otherwise listenable recording.
Some pastors pause too much, and for internet listening, I usually boost the playback speed about 4% to compensate. There's feature in Audacity that will allow you to boost the playback speed without increasing the pitch.
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Let me back up a second. First off, what console? There are almost always better output options than 3.5 mm.
Balanced XLR or 1/4" TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve) outputs prefered. Balanced has better noise rejection.
Then ask the question, what should I use to record balanced signals? In an install, a rack unit with USB and SD card capabilities makes a lot of sense. It's smaller than a computer and interface, less tempting to steal, and yet does the required job.
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If you know your preacher, you know when the windup is coming.
If the guy's got a problem with plosives, I'd rather coach him on mic technique.
Church sound ranges from some very large churches with very knowledgeable staff, to some smaller churches where this week's sound board operator thinks smiley face EQ is the way it's done. What they think about compression is anybody's guess. Best you can do is try to limit the damage they can do.
The OP did seem interested in a rack type recorder. So if someone knows of a specific model the OP might consider, it might be beneficial to let the OP know what to look for.
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If the guy's got a problem with plosives, I'd rather coach him on mic technique.
:banging head:
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Thanks for all the replies guys. It will be for recording more then just one pastor. there are a few other sections of spoken word I would like to be capturing neatly. The soundboard is a beringer board but I do not recall the model, there is no rack mount equipment. Rack mount is currently not an option. There is an EQ box between the main outputs and the FOH speakers, this does not affect the tape out interface which is just a copy of the main mix. A set and forget compressor would probably be ideal but would need to be on multiple channels. I would like at least to have a compressor in the recorder because then I am not required to tweak every recording after the fact. The mark and divide feature of the sony sounds good and sounds similar to the Korg MR2 I have been using (which does not have divide). Recording media is not that important as long as it is removable. Recording direct to a computer is also not an option due to space and operator constraints.
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I'm not aware of any recorders that have a true built in compressor. If you mean to say you want a recorder with automatic gain control, the Sony PCM M10 has an automatic gain control built in. I've never used it.
If the automatic gain control doesn't work out for you, then you can connect an external compressor to your soundboard.
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Ha! The Episcopal sermon I heard Christmas eve was totally gain-ride-able. Spot on Jon.
I'm not aware of any recorders that have a true built in compressor.
R-44 does. Don't the SD recorders have a compression function? I don't run those.
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I doubt that many smaller churches would want to spend $1,095 buying an Edirol R-44 to record sermons, much less spend even more on a Sound Devices product. At that price point, they might as well ditch their present board and buy one that can record direct to usb.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/16FXII?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=recording&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CJ35xo_t0LsCFSvl7AodAxYAaA
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If you mean to say you want a recorder with automatic gain control, the Sony PCM M10 has an automatic gain control built in. I've never used it.
Please don't use the Automatic Gain Control on the Sony. If you do, every time the preacher PAUSES the BACKGROUND NOISE will be jerked WAY UP in volume. It's not pretty. Nearly ruined an interview I recorded that had an AIR CONDITIONER in the ROOM.
If you're skilled at compressor settings maybe you can buy an outboard compressor to put in the chain before the recorder, since the Sony (or other recorder, I'm just familiar with the Sony) is so inexpensive. Or just run it through a software compressor afterward, though I understand you'd rather not do post-processing. To me, the important thing is to get an accurate recording first. Then you can tweak.
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i wouldn't bother with the Sony as it has a finicky micro SD card
???
First I have ever heard that
Unless you are talking about user error with people putting it in upside down, in which case isn't the recorder
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IMO, there's nothing finicky on the Sony. It's a very well made unit.
I'm still of the view that the OP would benefit from using the Sony to record directly off the soundboard. Put it in his pocket, take it home, plug it into Audacity, download the file, apply a little compression, boost the playback speed just a bit (unless he's dealing with unusually fast talkers), and then carefully choose his settings for exporting the file for upload to the internet. After doing it three or four times, then the settings will be pretty routine, and the whole edit process will go very, very quickly.
Audacity is free, easy to use and it works well. The Sony can be had for $200-$230 new. The battery life is so good that with new batteries every Sunday, there's no worry of losing a recording. Or an external power supply can be added.
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Thanks for all the answers guys. Looks like the Sony is the go. I was hoping to have others doing the post work on a rostered basis but this may not work.
Cheers