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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Xpanding Man on April 05, 2004, 01:47:31 AM

Title: MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Xpanding Man on April 05, 2004, 01:47:31 AM

just did my first MS, flecktones at pompano :)

question:  which channel usually needs more gain to make the levels flat, the M or the S ?   I'm doing the mixdown in post, but i'm just curious if my experience jives with others....

thanks,
john

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Tim on April 05, 2004, 01:48:47 AM

what are you using to decode? I still haven't tried M/S but I'm curious what program folks are using.

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Lee on April 05, 2004, 02:04:08 AM

my guess would be M, just becase it's pointed at the sound source.  But I've never run M/S so I wouldn't know...

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Nick's Picks on April 05, 2004, 07:48:07 AM

side always needs more gain...IME.

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Brian on April 05, 2004, 11:25:43 AM

does the v2 really decode the M/S signal? or is post production still necessary. would really like to try M/S on the stage lip at this venue for RW20C.

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Nick's Picks on April 05, 2004, 11:42:29 AM

the V2 can decode M-S..but its sort of funky.
The times i've done it w/the V2/3, I always end up with one channel being louder than the other.  Adding "side" volume is supposed to be  represented equally on each channel, but I didn't find that to be the case.  Side should always be the right channel, and it would end up being represented as louder on the right.  Hmm....think I'll post this one to the oade board and see if Mike Grace answers.
I guess doing it in post is the best bet, though I typicaly do it on the fly.  we'll see...i'll be doing it in post more often now as I dont have anything to do it live with.

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: plucks on April 05, 2004, 01:11:31 PM

JOhn-
Here's a pretty good link:
http://www.arboretum.com/support/manuals/manual_htdm/Files/tdm_processes_2.html#anchor1054369

phil

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Xpanding Man on April 05, 2004, 02:08:27 PM

Ok, I had a somewhat devious reason for asking   :-[

I'm pretty sure that I had the Left =  Mid and Rigth = Side, but in pure wookie fashion i didn't make sure to remember that i did it that way  ::)

but looking at the ad1000, my left channel trim is all the way up, and my right is all the way down, which jives with Lee's guess and disagrees with Nick's.....

outdoor venue, 8th row DFC wide soundstage, wouldn't the Side sound a lot 'boomier' in a bass heavy mix ?  any other way i can be certain which is which ?  

john 'the MS wook'

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Tim on April 05, 2004, 02:12:42 PM

shouldn't the mid sound mono?

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Lee on April 05, 2004, 02:14:59 PM

I meant the mid would be louder, since it's pointed at the sound source, therefore LESS gain on M, MORE on S.

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Tim on April 05, 2004, 03:12:47 PM

the S should be noticeable, it's off-axis to the music...

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Nick's Picks on April 05, 2004, 05:10:35 PM

Quote from: Lee on April 05, 2004, 02:14:59 PM

I meant the mid would be louder, since it's pointed at the sound source, therefore LESS gain on M, MORE on S.

took the words out of my mouth.
of course the Mid (center) would be the loudest.  Its the one pointing at the stage.

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: Xpanding Man on April 05, 2004, 10:46:22 PM

upon further review, nick is correct....the mid needs less gain  ;)

going to a friends house this week to do the mix on cool edit pro; will post this for download for sure :)

thanks for the help,
john

ps - even if this comes out like shit, chris was there with the 21>modcmc5>v2>mme rig, so it got done, which is nice.

Title: Re:MS question (ADK content)
Post by: lyle on April 07, 2004, 10:14:35 PM

I have been recording M/S for a while with a stereo mic. I believe if you look at directions as stated in the V2/V3/or Mini-Mp manual you will see one of these stating a common gain setting is 3:1 ratio of left/mid to right/side. Therefore the lower gain is on the side! With the V2/3 both channels set the same is full stereo. If you take the right/side channel past this the recording will sound much too separated and distant. Just monitor it. IMO I found the 3:1 ratio works very well or 1:1 but never 1:2,3 etc. I am sure you will agree if you try it. And I just do not want to spend  my time in post production so I love M/S Matrix on the fly.