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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: setboy on April 08, 2004, 08:24:52 PM

Title: what should a new taper start with?
Post by: setboy on April 08, 2004, 08:24:52 PM

hey all
i am new here just wanted to know what you all think a new taper should start with?


THANKS

Raphael

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: Tim on April 08, 2004, 08:27:12 PM

are you just patching? if so, do you plan on buying a rig soon?

If you want a full rig what else are you running(external preamp? ad? mics?)?

How much do you want to spend?

we'll start with these ;D

There are a lot of options for almost every imagineable budget and purpose.  The more details you give the easier it will be for us to help!

+T

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: John R on April 08, 2004, 09:50:09 PM

mics>shockmounts>t-bar>stand>mic cable>pre/ad>batt>interconnect>recording device>batt.  

just messing around.  big addiction you're about to take on.  $$ range, anywhere from $500>$10k when all is said and done.

brian should be chiming in any minute with a link to the archives.  read a little bit, see what's going on, figure your budget, look in yardsale to see how much used gear is selling for, then, hop in.  the water's fine ::)

jr

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: setboy on April 10, 2004, 10:43:27 AM

ok lets start with a good dat deck
whats do you all think is a good dat deck?

Raphael

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: John R on April 10, 2004, 10:48:58 AM

Quote from: setboy on April 10, 2004, 10:43:27 AM

ok lets start with a good dat deck
whats do you all think is a good dat deck?

Raphael

raphael, again, all of this depends on your budget.

good decks: sony d-8, tascam da-p1.  most commonly seen.  buy new or from a trusted member of this board.  i would not get from ebay unless you want to send it off to get checked/cleaned/calibrated.

jr

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 10, 2004, 10:49:26 AM

alright, here comes the fluffing!!!

go jb3, no transfers, 20 GB HD, get a converter box(hosa) and run a digital signal into the jb3 via optical cable, that setup will set ya back about 300, but you'll be setup for patching

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: John R on April 10, 2004, 11:48:07 AM

Quote from: bean on April 10, 2004, 10:49:26 AM

alright, here comes the fluffing!!!

go jb3, no transfers, 20 GB HD, get a converter box(hosa) and run a digital signal into the jb3 via optical cable, that setup will set ya back about 300, but you'll be setup for patching

and, if you are not dead set on dat, do the above, i do

jr

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 10, 2004, 12:19:03 PM

there is no v4, HAHAHAHA

how do you know john;-)

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: John R on April 10, 2004, 12:36:02 PM

Quote from: bean on April 10, 2004, 12:19:03 PM

there is no v4, HAHAHAHA

how do you know john;-)

i've got the inside track 8)  also, when i do release info, i can always say 'hey, there's no v4'

jr

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 10, 2004, 12:42:26 PM

arent they just skipping ahead to a v5???;-)

i heard it does 64 bit, 384 sampling, and it gives you head during the show;-)

also has a grace or apogee switch on it

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: setboy on April 10, 2004, 02:42:01 PM

sorry about that my budget is about a $1000
and what else can i get is
dat and what else?

p.s. sorry about all the dumb thing i'm asking ha ha

Raphael

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: John R on April 10, 2004, 02:56:49 PM

Quote from: setboy on April 10, 2004, 02:42:01 PM

sorry about that my budget is about a $1000
and what else can i get is
dat and what else?

Raphael

raphael, a used dat is anywhere form $300-$800.  if you go the jb3 route, you could still swing some mics, batts, cables etc.  like i said, check out the yardsale, but stay away from the akg's at any cost ::)  j/k.  and, with jb3, you could patch for a while and save for your major purchases.

jr

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: phishn on April 12, 2004, 09:39:45 PM

Quote from: bean on April 10, 2004, 10:49:26 AM

alright, here comes the fluffing!!!

go jb3, no transfers, 20 GB HD, get a converter box(hosa) and run a digital signal into the jb3 via optical cable, that setup will set ya back about 300, but you'll be setup for patching

bean..do you like jb3's?  

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: Brian Skalinder on April 12, 2004, 09:55:01 PM

First, to see what additional gear you may want other than a DAT, check out the Newbie Central thread in the Archival Info forum.

Alright, about a grand.  Here's my take:

$ 450 | AKG 391s
$  50 | 15' cheapo mic cables
$ 300 | Edirol UA-5 w/ digi-mod
$  20 | optical cable
$ 160 | Nomad JB3
$  60 | Bogen mic stand
$  60 | shockmounts 
-------------------------------
$1100 | TOTAL

[/size]Well...a little over budget.  :)  This gets you a great pair of starter mics, though you have several other options on mics, all less expensive:  Oktava MC012, AKG C1000S (not as good as the 393s, though, but a couple hundred cheaper), Superlux (sorry, don't know the model #s).  I'm sure there are others I'm missing.

The Oade-purchased digi-mod Edirol UA-5 can be upgraded in the future with one of the preamp mods offered by the Oade Bros, much improving the sound.  This pre/ADC will serve you well whichever set of mics to which you choose to upgrade in the future (if you get hooked like the rest of us!).

The NJB3 is, IMO, the way to go these days for recording 16-bit out of an external ADC.  And...there you go!

If you want to start out on a much smaller budget, swap the AKG 391s with AKG C1000S and the Edirol UA-5 with a Denecked AD-20.  That'll cut your costs by around ~$250-$300.

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: setboy on April 12, 2004, 10:05:22 PM

thanks for all the help guys but what does  IMO mean

Raphael

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: Brian Skalinder on April 12, 2004, 10:22:51 PM

In My Opinion   :)

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: setboy on April 12, 2004, 10:37:58 PM

thanks i should have known that

Raphael

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: fozzy on April 13, 2004, 01:12:27 AM

IMHO i would stay w/ a digi-mod UA-5 it should last you a while till your start to feel slutty.  I would also expect to spend another ~100+ on batteries and accessories.  Save some dough for cover/tickets and some beers.  

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 13, 2004, 07:26:05 AM

Quote from: phishn on April 12, 2004, 09:39:45 PM

Quote from: bean on April 10, 2004, 10:49:26 AM

alright, here comes the fluffing!!!

go jb3, no transfers, 20 GB HD, get a converter box(hosa) and run a digital signal into the jb3 via optical cable, that setup will set ya back about 300, but you'll be setup for patching

bean..do you like jb3's?  

yes, yes i do....

do you like yours??

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: teajay on April 13, 2004, 01:32:16 PM

I've been using the ADK SC-T's for a couple months now and for $400 they're a great sounding mic. You even get cardiod and omni caps with them which is a benefit over the 391's

[/adk fluffing]

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: mmmatt on April 13, 2004, 07:53:16 PM

IMO is "in my opinion"  Don't worry the acronims of the online world are the least important things you'll learn around here.  you are doing the right thing by asking here before you buy.  You will find everybody has there opinions, and most all are solid.  There is 100 ways to go to spend your $1k, but definately solid advice so far.  The ua-5 & jb3 is almost a nobrainer for a starter set-up, and I will say I am only a few months ahead of you in the taper world, and that is where I am.  You may look on the internet archive for recordings of music/venues you are familiar with recorded with different rigs.  Research here, and on web vendors to find what you can afford, then search based on equipment.  Don't worry so much about the jb3 vs dat... that you most likely wont hear.  The biggest difference will be in the mics, although you will hear differences with high end preamps as well.  For you range it is pretty much the denecke ad-20 or the ederol ua-5 for a preamp.  There are others in your range I'm sure, but thoes are the 2 most commonly in use for a starter system.  You can then deternine what sound you like.  Keep in mind that every venue/band/night/rig/taper is somewhat different so you should try to find similar situations with different gear.  Then when you listen, listen a few times and listen for different things.  Listen for the soundstage (close your eyes and see if you can tell where each musician is on stage), the clarity (keep em' closed and try to pick out each individual instrument), the high freq responce, low freq, overall sound... just download 1 song from 6 or 8 shows and compare!  That is the best advice I can give. +T for starting in the right place!

Matt

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 14, 2004, 07:28:49 AM

Quote from: mmmatt on April 13, 2004, 07:53:16 PM

 Don't worry so much about the jb3 vs dat... that you most likely wont hear.  

thats just it, theres no difference, theyre both 16/44.1-48k ;)

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: mmmatt on April 14, 2004, 09:21:08 AM

Quote from: boogie on April 13, 2004, 09:33:39 PM

a variant setup

$ 200-225 | Rode NT-5's (used)
$  50 | 15' cheapo mic cables
$ 100 | Denecke PS-2 (used)
$ 200-225 | Denecke AD-20 (used)
$  20 | optical cable
$ 160 | Nomad JB3 (refurb/used)
$  60 | Bogen mic stand
$  60 | shockmounts
-------------------------------
$~850-1000 | TOTAL

I actually have the nt-5's and I think they are a nice mic... not too many people hoppin on the Rode bandwagon here though!  I would highly recomend the ua-5 over the denecke just from the standpoint of flexibility.  You have more input/output capability, the ability to run a sbd feed in and mix that with your mics for a matrix, and if you buy from oade, you can also send it back to them for an upgrade (they actually modify them for you to work as a stand alone unit, and then can do performance upgrades as well once that upgrade bug gets you).  The price on this unit new from oade with the basic modification (digi-mod) is $300 and then a battery set-up is about $70 including a few bucks for radishack parts.  You will also need a bag, but if you are creative, you can set yourself up for $20-$40 there.  Here is the way I see it:


$ 300| wide selection of mics, pic what sounds best to you!
$  50 | 15' cables (You can get nice, custom made cables for this from a Jason B in the yardsale)
$ 300 | digi-mod ua5 from oade
$  20 | optical cable
$ 160 | Nomad JB3 20GB (refurb directly from creative on e-bay) approx 30hrs of recording time!!!
$  40 | 13'  mic stand (various e-bay supliers)
$  60 | shockmounts
$ 70  | double ua-5 battery set-up
$ 40  | bag
$ 30  | stereo mic bar
$ 70  | shipping and/or tax

$   Total  $1140
and if you really want to keep it under $1K you can probably get a $25, 7-9' stand (usualy ok for indoor), wait on the shock mounts (I'll get crucified for that one!) , do a $30 single battery, a $10 stereo bar, and maybe find some of these things used for less $.  You would be sitting pretty good for now and have options to upgrade as you go without throwing everything away and starting over!

Matt

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: John R on April 14, 2004, 09:38:30 AM

did creative drop the price on the refurbs?

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: mmmatt on April 14, 2004, 09:55:56 AM

maybe it is 169?  I bought mine new w/ 40g for 299, and after I saw the refurbs but that was a while ago.
Matt

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 14, 2004, 10:24:27 AM

they have a special offer going on, check the retail section

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: setboy on April 14, 2004, 04:04:21 PM

now matrix is doing a sbd and running your mics at the same time??

 

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: sexymexi on April 14, 2004, 05:37:36 PM

Quote from: setboy on April 14, 2004, 04:04:21 PM

now matrix is doing a sbd and running your mics at the same time??

 

this is correct. a matrix is exactly that.  The trouble is getting your levels right, i havn't been able to get them how i like them, normally a bit too much SBD and not enough mic mix, but yea, its all about experimentation.

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: mmmatt on April 15, 2004, 05:01:17 AM

I haven't done it on the ua-5 yet... I also have a small mixer that I use.  There is a lot to it, mic placement, the room, the band, the guy running the sbd, how many beers you had before you got there... It is different every time, but it is lots of fun! Definately all about experimentation.

Matt

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: John R on April 15, 2004, 08:30:26 AM

refurb  179.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15058&item=3091077757

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: kstanya on April 19, 2004, 03:21:29 PM

As far as mics go Studio Projects C4s are an unbeatable deal:
paired mics
shockmounts
windscreens
case
omni AND cardoid caps
all for around $300

And they don't sound too bad either.

Title: Re:what should a new taper start with?
Post by: mirth on April 19, 2004, 09:35:38 PM

Quote from: dpaulku on April 19, 2004, 09:25:53 PM

... pause... be nice now...

IMO>In My Opinion
IMHO> In My Humble Opinion
FWIW> For What It's Worth
JM2c> Just My two cents... I think I just made that up... I could be wrong...

LOL> Laughing Out Loud

There has to be a FAQ on this stuff....

There is....
http://info.astrian.net/jargon/

;)