Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: HealthCov Chris on February 05, 2016, 12:03:17 AM
-
I saw this mic configuration at a recent Railroad Earth show and it looked very simple and intriguing. I typically record small to mid-sized venues, and have liked using a PAS pair with an x/y pair in the middle. I picked up this mic-bar for cheap so I thought about this config with cardioids on the outside and hypercards inside. Any comments from experience, advice or suggestions would be appreciated. Maybe this just a redundant setup.
Also, if it were done this way into a Tascam DR-680, would it be best run as 4 separate mono channels or 2 stereo pairs? Thanks
-
Good for comparing one stereo pair against the other, but less likely to be less useful for mixing all four together than alternate configurations if that's what you're more interested in doing. Not saying it won't work to do that, only that other configs are likely to work better for doing that.
If the goal is a config where all four are intended to be mixed them together, you ideally need a lot more spacing/angle difference between the two pairs so that each pair is contributing something different, instead of just stepping on each other's toes, smearing things. Quite wide spaced PAS with X/Y in the middle is good that way. PAS in the middle plus a really wide angled outside pair (like pointing directly sideways- don't laugh until you try it) can be useful. One useful thing to try, which may sound radical, would be to use a center PAS supercard pair to isolate the direct PA sound as much as possible, and point a wider spaced cardioid pair in directly the opposite direction, fully away from the stacks so they are in the null of the cardioid pattern. That gives you maximum separation between the direct sound element in the PAS pair and the reverberant/ambient/audience element in the other, and should provide the most flexibility in finding the most optimal balance between those critically important aspects when you mix them together.
If both pairs have pretty much the same information in them, you don't end up with very much flexibility at mix time, it either sounds better than either pair alone or it doesn't. When they contain very different parts of the "total sound" you gain more mixing control because the two pairs don't overlap and compete with each other. Each pair brings their own contribution to the party. If everyone brings mac & cheese to the potluck dinner, the meal options are going to be pretty boring without much variety, even if each dish is prepared a bit differently. Its much more interesting if everyone brings something different, and allows for much more choice in the particular balance of what each person ends up with on their plate.
-
Gutbucket, that was an AWESOME read. Damn, you are talented. Thanks again for training all of us. You should change your name to Yoda or Obi Wan Kenobi as we are all just Young Padawan's under your tutelage. Seriously, thanks a million for sharing your knowledge, because of you and what I have learned, I have got much better sounding captures.
-
Awww, thanks. Glad to have helped.
BTW, it bears repeating that the configuration pictured may have worked nicely, and produced a very nice recording. I'm in no way condemning it outright. I'm mostly pointing out what may work better in general, depending on the recordist's intentions.
-
I saw this mic configuration at a recent Railroad Earth show and it looked very simple and intriguing. I typically record small to mid-sized venues, and have liked using a PAS pair with an x/y pair in the middle. I picked up this mic-bar for cheap so I thought about this config with cardioids on the outside and hypercards inside. Any comments from experience, advice or suggestions would be appreciated. Maybe this just a redundant setup.
Also, if it were done this way into a Tascam DR-680, would it be best run as 4 separate mono channels or 2 stereo pairs? Thanks
It's also possible that this was just two rigs sharing a mic stand.
-
Thanks Gutbucket for the feedback. I will rule the set up out.
Assuming i do the wide spaced PAS with x/y in center, which pair would be best for my hypercards? Or, would hypercards be better in A-B? Likely a lot of variables that go into this decision.
It's also possible that this was just two rigs sharing a mic stand.
It was for a single rig, but I don't know how he planned on using it.
-
Yeah there are a lot of variables. Room, audience, all that.
[edit to cut all the blather I've already posted elsewhere]
-
I used something similar to that set up, but instead of the angles being different, the mics themselves had very different polar patterns. I tried attaching a photo (hopefully it won't flip sideways)
So I ran two stereo pairs, both essentially PAS, but one pair were shotguns and the other were "pinpoint omnis". (The two pairs with the Dead Muppets are the ones we're discussing. The other pair with the foam windscreens ran to a different deck and were not mixed in)
I ended up mixing down the two sources - I can't remember if I put more of the omni or more of the shotguns into the mix, but the results were quite pleasing. If interested, you can listen here: https://archive.org/details/dso2015-09-24.cp4-cp1.flac16
I like to run lots of stereo pairs and just see which one turns out best and go with that (rather than mixing them together). I'd have to agree with Gutbucket that blending sources of similar mic configs usually smears things... but sometimes not.
-
Sounds Niiiiccee!
Good example of the importance of each pair contributing something different.
If not wanting to compromise either as a single pair alone, the only modification I'd make would be to put the omnis on the outside, as wide as they'd go on the bar.
-
Sounds Niiiiccee!
Good example of the importance of each pair contributing something different.
If not wanting to compromise either as a single pair alone, the only modification I'd make would be to put the omnis on the outside, as wide as they'd go on the bar.
Thanks! You're right about the omnis. I should have run them on the outside. Security gave me such grief that I didn't have enough time to truly set up the way I wanted to, since time was running short. I actually had one of "Followinbob's" 24" wide mic bars but didn't have time to get it set up :( Next time...