Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Mic D on June 02, 2004, 09:39:08 AM
-
I'm looking for pics of different kinds of set ups using the V series caps. With and without actives.
Thanks,
Kevin
-
i can send more 2morrow with setups on the vark bar i use when not stealthing. this is my main stealth setup tho.. in the front of a kangol hat. fits like a dream. not 110 degrees like normal mk caps would be on the bar, but rather 70 degrees.
-
Thanks. Looks like I'll be running 70* this weekend.
-
'not that there's anything wrong with that' :) I love the sound of the 4v's on the bar like that.
some other setups you can do with the vark bar. which is only like $40.. but extremely versatile!
ortf:
(http://www.routeflap.net/PICT0135.JPG)
you can use the stcg bar to get the angle....
(http://www.routeflap.net/PICT0136.JPG)
with windscreens:
(http://www.routeflap.net/PICT0139.JPG)
fyi, using schoeps screens with the V mics, you need to clip out the little cross basket so you can insert them were they should be. (jerry brucks recommendation)
vertically like the cmxy4v setup. Ive done this in clubs.
(http://www.routeflap.net/PICT0141.JPG)
same windscreen as cmxy4v would use.
(http://www.routeflap.net/PICT0142.JPG)
90 degrees. altho vark bar spacing you cant get perfect coincident, but very close, and i dont think its that big of an issue anyway with small diagphragm mics.
(http://www.routeflap.net/PICT0143.JPG)
M/S (mk8/mk4v) vark bar is just a few millimeters to short to get perfect vertical tho. luckily it doesnt matter if the fig8 cap is vertical or not. i think im gonna just get a single mk4 and go back to running the m/s like i used to with the sgmsc clamp. (its a smaller footprint too)
(http://www.routeflap.net/PICT0131.JPG)
(http://www.routeflap.net/PICT0133.JPG)
-
great pics bro, +T
-
Thank you! Those pics just said a lot! What's the part # for those clips?
-
the ones in the pics are SGCM (M for metal) they seem pricey to me at $56 ea. but there is also SGC clips that are plastic with no thumbscrew for $16 ea. i have also. which should be fine if they dont take too much abuse. and i doubt many people who spend the $ for schoeps in the first place would inflict much abuse :) should be able to get the from posthorn pretty quick. if you call jerry early enuf he will send em out the same day.
-
Thanks again!
Is that M/S windscreen the WMS model?
-
super nice pics, plane to play with the schoeps vert caps some day, for now the mk41's will have to do.
-
the tubular one is just "WB". the ball screen i have on the 2 vertical caps side-by-side, is actually sold as a m/s windscreen and is calld the "WMS"
http://www.posthorn.com/S_pops.html#wb
-
sweet pics man
how much do Schoep go for new?
Raphael
-
Bodies: CMC6 $615/ea
Caps: MK4 $555/ea
MK41 $725/ea
MK4v $912/ea
KC5 Actives $430/ea
STCG ORTF Bar $115
A20 shockmount $86/ea
-
they offer 15 year and 30 year morgages now on schoeps....great rates and you can write the interest off ;D
-
they offer 15 year and 30 year morgages now on schoeps....great rates and you can write the interest off ;D
your joking right?
Raphael
-
of course ;D
-
Bodies: CMC6 $615/ea
Caps: MK4 $555/ea
MK41 $725/ea
MK4v $912/ea
KC5 Actives $430/ea
STCG ORTF Bar $115
A20 shockmount $86/ea
making best tapes for the masses: priceless
ps. u can do what i did, and not get the CMC6 bodies at all, and put that money towards the schoeps VMS5u preamp, since youll want a nice preamp anyway. then u also save a few more huindred on getting the KCY cable instead of the 2 kc5's.
-
Just wanted to bump this, as I'm getting my MK6 pair Friday and was looking for pics of Schoeps v setups.
Excellent pics. Big +T to dr.ph0b...
-
been running the 4vs on the DIN bar. its 90* no matter what!
And yes ORTF bar with 4vs=70*
-
Actually, depending on how you twist the caps on the bar and position it, you can properly create any angle between 0 and 70 with the ORTF bar, and 0-90 with the DIN or DINa bars. 70 and 90 (and zero degrees, but that's a whole lot of useless) are easy while the angles in the middle would take a good deal of eyeballing.
- Jason
-
the tubular one is just "WB". the ball screen i have on the 2 vertical caps side-by-side, is actually sold as a m/s windscreen and is calld the "WMS"
http://www.posthorn.com/S_pops.html#wb
I would really love the WB. Wish someone would sell one ;D
-
I would really love the WB. Wish someone would sell one ;D
Posthorn does'nt sell them any more?
-
I would really love the WB. Wish someone would sell one ;D
Posthorn does'nt sell them any more?
I am looking for the mic holder not the windscreen. I thought schoeps stopped making it?
-
FWIW I picked up both the WB and WMS screens pictured on page 1 of this thread from Posthorn.
Jerry Bruck's definitely one of the nicest guys I've had the pleasure of doing business with...
-
I am looking for the mic holder not the windscreen. I thought schoeps stopped making it?
They did, but the WB is the windscreen.
-
Just curious, if you were to use the same setup as pictured below, but with Figure 8s, would that be an effective method for running Blumleiin? Do the mics have to be vertically on top of one another?
(http://www.routeflap.net/PICT0141.JPG)
-
Just curious, if you were to use the same setup as pictured below, but with Figure 8s, would that be an effective method for running Blumleiin? Do the mics have to be vertically on top of one another?
(http://www.routeflap.net/PICT0141.JPG)
from what i've been told, they must be mounted on top of each other.
do you have a pair of mk8's or a single? jsut curious, as i have a single.
-
Do the mics have to be vertically on top of one another?
I would think so. Seems like one of the caps would be in the way of the other if they were side by side.
-
they dont have to be on top of each other ...one can be across the other and acheive the same result.
-
they dont have to be on top of each other ...one can be across the other and acheive the same result.
Teddy - if you don't mind, what is your source for this recommendation?
-
they dont have to be on top of each other ...one can be across the other and acheive the same result.
Teddy - if you don't mind, what is your source for this recommendation?
Multiple Sources. Jerry Bruck being the first, and confirmed by a friend at schoeps, and also by Mr. Rich Mays, an engineer /location recording engineer, David Satz is another..... Sometimes There "can" be phasing issues, milliseconds of delay with side by side placement, and isnt like Mr Blumlein intended it, but in the absence of a mounting option to run head to head, it can be done that way(most people may say it isnt ideal, but necessity is the mother of invention). I asked twice, once back when I had u89s and didnt have a vert bar to accomodate the two LD mics, and the other day , when Nick bumped this....directional patterns are three-dimensional .
-
they dont have to be on top of each other ...one can be across the other and acheive the same result.
Teddy - if you don't mind, what is your source for this recommendation?
Multiple Sources. Jerry Bruck being the first, and confirmed by a friend at schoeps, and also by Mr. Rich Mays, an engineer /location recording engineer, David Satz is another..... Sometimes There "can" be phasing issues, milliseconds of delay with side by side placement, and isnt like Mr Blumlein intended it, but in the absence of a mounting option to run head to head, it can be done that way(most people may say it isnt ideal, but necessity is the mother of invention). I asked twice, once back when I had u89s and didnt have a vert bar to accomodate the two LD mics, and the other day , when Nick bumped this....directional patterns are three-dimensional .
but if you put fig 8's side by side, one of the capsules is going to be directly infront of one of the lobes, which is going to have some influence on the sound, no?
-
you are right William, but youd get some interference in a in a head to head positioning, wouldnt you?
arent the bodies in the way there too?I mean if we think in terms of a 3 dimensional pickup area, wouldnt the head to head option present the same sort of issue???
im just asking ,I dont know the answer....
Mr Satz told me that the best way to do it(if you arent a purist, that is) would be side to side vertically,with the bodies completely out of the way of the direct sound.
I think I will try a comp.
-
that's what i was thinking.
-
I suppose head to head does have an interference issue as well, but its with stand, mount, and cabling and on the rear facing lobes at the maximum point of rejection. I'm thinking a side by side would have more in the way, but probably not by much. The caps would interfere at different quadrants and sensitivity. In theory, I'd think you'd want both forward facing lobes to have unobstructed "views" of the sound, but in reality, it may not make much difference at all.
-
I think I am going to try a comp next week. I have acess to 4 fig 8s and 2 more bodies, so I think its a good idea to try to see if we can see which sounds better. Interesting stuff for sure. in the meantime, I will see what my friend at schoeps has to say.
uote author=wboswell link=topic=19866.msg765042#msg765042 date=1138044111]
I suppose head to head does have an interference issue as well, but its with stand, mount, and cabling and on the rear facing lobes at the maximum point of rejection. I'm thinking a side by side would have more in the way, but probably not by much. The caps would interfere at different quadrants and sensitivity. In theory, I'd think you'd want both forward facing lobes to have unobstructed "views" of the sound, but in reality, it may not make much difference at all.
[/quote]
-
bump for any new info.
after reading, I would imagine that side by side would be ok as long as the mics as on the same plane and distance from the stage (next to each other, that is, instead of one in front of the other).
-
bump....
anyone?
can i just use an XY mount for blumlien?
-
yes......it should work just fine.
teddy ray
-
FWIW, I ran blumlein with the mics on top of each other, as well as side by side. Same show, same mic placement, just switched at setbreak. I noticed ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever.
-
I felt a stirring in the Force from being referred to earlier in this thread. Hi, people.
Yes, I've made live stereo recordings with two Schoeps CMC 58 (i.e. figure-8) microphones placed side by side, with an angle of somewhat less than 90 degrees between their main axes. I always left an inch or two of space between mikes when using this approach, since a figure-8 pattern can easily be spoiled if obstructions near the capsule prevent the diaphragm's exposure to the sound field from being symmetrical. Sonically, the results were fairly nice, considering the room--mostly I use this approach as a defense against rooms with low, flat ceilings. The nulls of the figure-8s reject sound reflected from the ceiling and floor, which makes the room seem a little less confining. As a bonus, figure-8s don't pick up diffuse room rumble, which cancels out on opposite sides of the diaphragm.
But (a) that's merely a practical adaptation to get listenable results in horrid little rooms where no music recording should ever be done at all, and (b) I believe the question was whether a Blumlein stereo recording can be made that way. The answer to that is no. Blumlein (a/k/a "Stereosonic") is a very specific technique; either your figure-8s are coincident in the horizontal plane with their main axes angled apart at 90 degrees (and the center line between the main axes is aimed at the center of what you're trying to record), or your setup isn't Blumlein.
Just as important: With Blumlein, the total horizontal arc occupied by the sound source(s) must be 90 degrees or less as "seen" by the microphone pair--a narrower pickup angle than with most other two-microphone arrangements. If you don't respect that limitation, you'll get what's technically known as "funny things" in the stereo image. Some of the same sound will be picked up in normal polarity through the front lobe of one microphone and in inverse polarity through the rear lobe of the other one at the same time.
Unfortunately, this means that for recordings of wide sound sources, Blumlein often can't be used effectively. Figure-8s are as sensitive behind as in front, so if you place them far enough away to "fit" a very wide sound source into the available 90 degrees of arc, you may well pick up too much hall sound. In some large concert halls that are relatively dry, this works out well. But in more conventional performance spaces such as typical "multi-purpose" auditoriums, Blumlein is practical only for recording chamber music, solo piano or other sound sources that don't occupy much physical stage width. The quality of the "natural" reverberation in a typical auditorium is quite unappealing musically, unfortunately.
When the technique can be used as intended, the Blumlein purists definitely have their point: This approach has the smoothest possible distribution of apparent sound sources within the stereo image of any possible two-microphone recording method, plus it's mono-compatible. My funny little side-by-side figure-8 approach has neither of those virtues. But as I said, it was just a way to get usable recordings rather than not get usable recordings.
--best regards
-
Great thread, it even attracted the infamous David Satz......
well said David. I'd give you a +T but I can't yet.
-
looks like mr.schoeps arrived ..nice :D