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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: Eldo Rado on August 13, 2024, 08:38:04 PM
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My ten year old SONY PCM-M10 recorder has developed a glitchy control interface: many of the buttons on the front (for example, the "menu" button) no longer respond. It still records and plays back, but without accessing the menu it's not very functional. I called Sony and after literally ifty minutes on hold (" we are experiencing higher than normal number of calls...please stand by...") and they referred me to United Radio Services (tel (800) 634-8606) but it's and endless loop message, no people to speak to. Also another number SONY gave me is (800) 883-6817 but the same problem: none of the menu choices lead to a real individual.
Anyone of you guys know of someone on the cotinental US (I'm in Hawaii) that I could call and maybe send this recorder in for diagnostic and possible repair?
I know that I can buy a used one one eBay for around $200, so maybe mine is not worth fixing, but it may be a simple, inexpensive repair.
thanks
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Not sure on where to service, but maybe it's time to retire it and treat yourself to an upgrade? Put the M10 on a shelf on it's own little shrine, and get yourself something newer.
The Sony A10 is a wonderful step up that also has Bluetooth control as an option. Lots of people also using the Zoom F3 too.
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Thanks for the suggestions. Looking at the specs on the Sony PCM-A10 it's hard for me to consider it an upgrade. Unlike my old M10, the battery isn't removable (only rechargeable) and it has no phantom power, which I need for my binaural in-ear mics. The Zoom looks interesting, however; will research it. Thanks again.
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Clarification-
Neither Sony M10 nor A10 provide phantom power. I suspect you are referring to plug in power (PIP) which is the typical way of powering smaller 2-wire electret mics into an unbalanced mini-jack input. Both M10 and A10 provide PIP, but I'm not sure what the PIP voltage measures, nor what PIP voltage your mics require to work to specification. The Sony's likely provide somewhere around 2.5V to 3.5V, maybe a bit more or less. The spec may differ between the M10 and A10, but if your binaural mics work straight into the M10, they are likely to work straight into the A10. If not you can always use a small battery box between the mics and recorder, which will typically provide a somewhat higher voltage of around 9V and may improve the the loudness handling capability of the mics somewhat.
Zoom F3 provides both PIP and [<edit | my thanks to Rairun for the correction] only phantom power. Phantom power is a completely different powering scheme used for more professional mics that use a balanced connection, typically over a 3-wire XLR connection to each mic. Standard phantom power is 48V and is provided on the two bigger XLR input connections on the F3, while PIP (when provided) is via a stereo mini-jack input. [Edit- however, you can still run an unbalanced PIP mic pair into balanced, phantom power inputs by using phantom power adapters that convert the phantom power to PIP power and the unbalanced mic output to a balanced output into the recorder. They typically look like somewhat longer XLR connectors]
Here's Sony's blurb on the A10's PIP- "When a plug in power type microphone is connected, power is automatically supplied to the microphone from the linear PCM recorder."
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001668695.html
Hope you can get the M10 working again. If you can't find anyone to take a look at it, maybe you can take it apart and see if cleaning the button contacts helps. I think there are threads here at TS on opening up the M10 and putting it back together again with photos and instructions. If not they can probably be found somewhere on the internet.
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I recently used my A10 for 5 hours in one day, and the charge meter didn't even drop below the full 4 bars. I can't imagine it ever running out during typical use.
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Other than Blue Tooth, how is the A10 a "step up" from the M10? The M10 uses up its AA batteries very sparingly and one can instantly "recharge" it by simply swapping out the AA batteries.
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Other than Blue Tooth, how is the A10 a "step up" from the M10? The M10 uses up its AA batteries very sparingly and one can instantly "recharge" it by simply swapping out the AA batteries.
"other than bluetooth" - enough said - that is THE gamechanger, enough for me. Switched to an A10, sold my M10, and never looked back. Ridiculously easy decision in my opinion.
I never needed to worry about power running out, but I wonder if using an external power bank is an option if those that are uber-concerned. It may have even been mentioned in one of the A10 threads, but it isn't a concern for me, so I don't worry about it.
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Zoom F3 provides both PIP and phantom power, over different sets of input connectors. Phantom power is a completely different powering scheme used for more professional mics that use a balanced connection, typically over a 3-wire XLR connection to each mic. Standard phantom power is 48V and is provided on the two bigger XLR input connections on the F3, while PIP is provided over the single, smaller stereo mini-jack input.
The Zoom F3 doesn't have a mini-jack input, only 2 XLR ones. The way to use it with PiP-powered mics is to either get a stereo phantom adapter (like the Uši, which converts 24-48V into 8V), or to turn off phantom power and use a simple xlr-minijack adapter + a battery box.
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"other than bluetooth" - enough said - that is THE gamechanger, enough for me. Switched to an A10, sold my M10, and never looked back. Ridiculously easy decision in my opinion.
This — being able to control the recorder from my phone is life-changing.
And the battery life is just as good on the A10 as it was on the M10. I recently ran mine for six hours at a festival, and it was still on four bars when I finished. I'd say the battery life is 20-30 hours easy, and it can recharge from any powered USB outlet.
I have also used mics direct into the A10 with plug-in power, and it worked fine. I probably wouldn't use it that way for an extremely loud show, but I wouldn't do that with an M10 either. Think of the A10 as just a smaller M10 with bluetooth and an internal battery, and you basically have the picture.
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Thanks for the suggestions. Looking at the specs on the Sony PCM-A10 it's hard for me to consider it an upgrade. Unlike my old M10, the battery isn't removable (only rechargeable) and it has no phantom power, which I need for my binaural in-ear mics. The Zoom looks interesting, however; will research it. Thanks again.
I agree with you - no way does the A10 look like an upgrade.
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Zoom F3 provides both PIP and phantom power, over different sets of input connectors. Phantom power is a completely different powering scheme used for more professional mics that use a balanced connection, typically over a 3-wire XLR connection to each mic. Standard phantom power is 48V and is provided on the two bigger XLR input connections on the F3, while PIP is provided over the single, smaller stereo mini-jack input.
The Zoom F3 doesn't have a mini-jack input, only 2 XLR ones. The way to use it with PiP-powered mics is to either get a stereo phantom adapter (like the Uši, which converts 24-48V into 8V), or to turn off phantom power and use a simple xlr-minijack adapter + a battery box.
Thanks for the correction. I've edited my earlier post. I don't actually own an F3 and was of the impression that it did have a mini-jack input with PIP. My bad.
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Thanks for the suggestions. Looking at the specs on the Sony PCM-A10 it's hard for me to consider it an upgrade. Unlike my old M10, the battery isn't removable (only rechargeable) and it has no phantom power, which I need for my binaural in-ear mics. The Zoom looks interesting, however; will research it. Thanks again.
I agree with you - no way does the A10 look like an upgrade.
Yet many of us believe it is. We are not just being contrary here and have given specific reasons why. YMMV which is fine, but as someone that has owned both, no question which I prefer.
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Thanks for the suggestions. Looking at the specs on the Sony PCM-A10 it's hard for me to consider it an upgrade. Unlike my old M10, the battery isn't removable (only rechargeable) and it has no phantom power, which I need for my binaural in-ear mics. The Zoom looks interesting, however; will research it. Thanks again.
I agree with you - no way does the A10 look like an upgrade.
Yet many of us believe it is. We are not just being contrary here and have given specific reasons why. YMMV which is fine, but as someone that has owned both, no question which I prefer.
Once I got my A10s, haven't used the M10s very much (if at all). You can run multiple A10s with the app (much like the R07), it's bluetooth vs none/wi-fi, they're so easy to >:D, etc. I wish the menu system was a little better but that's a very minor nitpick.
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Thanks for the suggestions. Looking at the specs on the Sony PCM-A10 it's hard for me to consider it an upgrade. Unlike my old M10, the battery isn't removable (only rechargeable) and it has no phantom power, which I need for my binaural in-ear mics. The Zoom looks interesting, however; will research it. Thanks again.
I agree with you - no way does the A10 look like an upgrade.
Yet many of us believe it is. We are not just being contrary here and have given specific reasons why. YMMV which is fine, but as someone that has owned both, no question which I prefer.
Likewise, I am the same.
I didn't use an M10 but other similar devices at the time. Since getting an A10 it's been life changing, particularly as a predominately stealth taper. Battery life is incredible, USB is built in, I can check levels and adjust settings from my phone without drawing attention to myself. If I forget a battery box I can still use PIP. And the main factor, it's tiny! like, super tiny. Until you hold one, you don't realise just how small this thing is.
Each to their own, but I see the A10 is a big leap forward in taping tech.
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Other than Blue Tooth, how is the A10 a "step up" from the M10? The M10 uses up its AA batteries very sparingly and one can instantly "recharge" it by simply swapping out the AA batteries.
"other than bluetooth" - enough said - that is THE gamechanger, enough for me. Switched to an A10, sold my M10, and never looked back. Ridiculously easy decision in my opinion.
I never needed to worry about power running out, but I wonder if using an external power bank is an option if those that are uber-concerned. It may have even been mentioned in one of the A10 threads, but it isn't a concern for me, so I don't worry about it.
I haven't done it myself but from reading up this is an option, yes. I've seen reports of folks running it for 30+ hrs.
+1 to bluetooth being a game changer. I run 2 A10s, one on stage and one at the SBD, and can generally check levels on both from the front row of shows (barring particularly large venues, I usually run in clubs 700-2k capacity). Absolute life saver when I'm able to text the person running sound and ask them to lower me a bit (if I'm still peaking @ 1, after being unable to check levels at sound check)
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UPDATE: Sony just contacted me by email. Their California service center will replace my unit for a refurbished used one, for US$150. I think I'll take them up on the offer.
Thanks to all who contributed and responded.
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Thanks for the suggestions. Looking at the specs on the Sony PCM-A10 it's hard for me to consider it an upgrade. Unlike my old M10, the battery isn't removable (only rechargeable) and it has no phantom power, which I need for my binaural in-ear mics. The Zoom looks interesting, however; will research it. Thanks again.
I agree with you - no way does the A10 look like an upgrade.
How so? It has Bluetooth control and is smaller. Is there something worse about it? If not, it's a big upgrade,unless you really will be recording for more than 30 hours with no ability to recharge the unit.
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So, here is an honest question for fans of using Bluetooth. Does using it increase the risk of RF interference on recordings, especially if the recorder is on your person? For years I have been diligent about avoiding RF interference on recordings by setting my phone on Airplane Mode before I start recording. Thanks in advance.
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So, here is an honest question for fans of using Bluetooth. Does using it increase the risk of RF interference on recordings, especially if the recorder is on your person? For years I have been diligent about avoiding RF interference on recordings by setting my phone on Airplane Mode before I start recording. Thanks in advance.
I've never experienced any RF interference in roughly 150 shows where I recorded with a Bluetooth-controlled A10.
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So, here is an honest question for fans of using Bluetooth. Does using it increase the risk of RF interference on recordings, especially if the recorder is on your person? For years I have been diligent about avoiding RF interference on recordings by setting my phone on Airplane Mode before I start recording. Thanks in advance.
I've never experienced any RF interference in roughly 150 shows where I recorded with a Bluetooth-controlled A10.
Smaller number of shows, but same experience - no RF interference.
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This is good to know. But just for control case purposes, have you ever experienced getting radio frequency interference in any of the venues that you have frequented, without Bluetooth? I have in one of my favorite venues and it's pretty much a killer in cases involving quiet music.
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I agree with you - no way does the A10 look like an upgrade.
If anyone reading this does not see it as an upgrade, that's fine and a personal choice of judgement and that's great. However... it should be seen as an acceptable "lateral move".
I used to play a LOT of disc golf. Guys would go out with expensive discs or rare discs or favorite discs and really, REALLY bemoan when they got lost or thrown into water. Over the years, I realized two things in succession. First, that if you didn't want the disc to get lost ... don't throw it or be more careful. Secondly (and more importantly), the game has grown so much that manufacturers sell discs on the retail market that do nearly the same thing - that dinosaur can be replaced by something very similar.
What I am saying is, you can baby your equipment all you want to, but unless you have a backup - at some point, as a consumer - you have to be willing to make a lateral move when your equipment becomes dated or inoperable. This is tech in the 21st century.
I have an M10 and an A10. If my M10 fails, I'm not going to eBay for another. I am going to embrace the fact that B and H sells A10s. They probably used to sell M10s. Now they sell A10s. This is both to the advantage of the consumer and the march of time.
Personally, just my own opinion, I think nostalgia is for the weak and shows an inability to reasonably compromise/be open to the present moment. Eye of the beholder, for sure, but, like, live for today maaaaaan.
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I agree with you - no way does the A10 look like an upgrade.
If anyone reading this does not see it as an upgrade, that's fine and a personal choice of judgement and that's great. However... it should be seen as an acceptable "lateral move".
I used to play a LOT of disc golf. Guys would go out with expensive discs or rare discs or favorite discs and really, REALLY bemoan when they got lost or thrown into water. Over the years, I realized two things in succession. First, that if you didn't want the disc to get lost ... don't throw it or be more careful. Secondly (and more importantly), the game has grown so much that manufacturers sell discs on the retail market that do nearly the same thing - that dinosaur can be replaced by something very similar.
What I am saying is, you can baby your equipment all you want to, but unless you have a backup - at some point, as a consumer - you have to be willing to make a lateral move when your equipment becomes dated or inoperable. This is tech in the 21st century.
I have an M10 and an A10. If my M10 fails, I'm not going to eBay for another. I am going to embrace the fact that B and H sells A10s. They probably used to sell M10s. Now they sell A10s. This is both to the advantage of the consumer and the march of time.
Personally, just my own opinion, I think nostalgia is for the weak and shows an inability to reasonably compromise/be open to the present moment. Eye of the beholder, for sure, but, like, live for today maaaaaan.
Truth be told, even though I love my M10s, I rarely use them now. My go-tos in most every situation are my Zoom F3s. Floating 32-bit means I don't have to worry about adjusting the gain remotely during a show. YMMV.
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I agree with you - no way does the A10 look like an upgrade.
I have an M10 and an A10. If my M10 fails, I'm not going to eBay for another. I am going to embrace the fact that B and H sells A10s. They probably used to sell M10s. Now they sell A10s.
Yes, proof B&H sold M10s. ;D
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I used my new red ebay M10 last night as a backup. I like the M10's omni mics when I don't have optimal position for the A10 cardioids.
Love the battery life on the M10, and I get a lot of half-used AA's from work so that's like free power.
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I used my new red ebay M10 last night as a backup. I like the M10's omni mics when I don't have optimal position for the A10 cardioids.
Love the battery life on the M10, and I get a lot of half-used AA's from work so that's like free power.
Long live the M10!
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Just received the replacement unit ($150, shipped): a brand-new, never-opened in-the-box PCM-M10 with all the accessories and even two new batteries. Thank you Mr SONY!