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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: GroundHog420 on November 07, 2024, 04:27:25 PM
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Hi there -
I did a pretty thorough search for threads about the Edirol R-4 PRO, but I still have a few questions that I was unable to find answers for, so I’m hoping someone might be able to help me out here.
I recently acquired an Edirol R-4 PRO, with the intention of using it in my studio as a backup deck for a massive digitization project I’ve been working on. I’ve been using an Edirol R-4, and was shopping around for a second one, which is how the R-4 PRO caught my attention. It seemed like the R-4 PRO might be useful as a second deck, but I don’t think I realized when I bought it, that a few of the design features were really different from the R-4.
The biggest issue is getting a power supply, as that was not included with this unit. According to the manual I found online, “You can connect either the included power conversion cable or a commercially available cable for an external power device.” According to the manual, the original power supply appears to have been two parts: an External Power Supply: 4-pin XLR type (9–16 V), and an AC Adapter 4pin XLR type connector converter cable.
https://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206223.0;attach=152524;image
In one of the older threads here, I read that tgakidis and H₂O had made cables that would work, by soldering together a 9-16v wall-wart and a 4 pin XLR Female / pin, 4 for (+) pin 1 for (-).
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170402.msg2114035#msg2114035
Unfortunately, that was ten years ago, and when I reached out to Ted, he said he’s not making those cables any more, but suggested doing an internet search for a 4-pin XLR AC adapter. I tried that, with variations of the following search criteria:
12V 2A AC Power Supply to 4-Pin Neutrik XLR Female Connector
More than half of the search results were not what I had been looking for. 3-pin connectors, male connectors, varying voltage and amperage ratings, tons of cheap knock-offs from faraway lands from ebay sellers who had clearly just registered their accounts within the past few months, even power supplies with no IEC Power Cable to actually plug into a wall outlet.
Looking through all that raised even more questions for me, as electronics is not my strong suit. If I understand things correctly, and want to take a chance with one of the ebay sellers, I might get something I could use, but I don’t know how to choose which one is worth gambling on. I didn’t find any power supplies that showed 2A, but a few were 3A; most said either 5A, 6, or more.
so... my basic questions regarding the power supply are:
Why is there a variable in the voltage (9–16 V)? from 9V to 16V seems like a bit of a jump.
How much wiggle room can I allow regarding amperage, since I haven’t been able to locate anything that stated 2A? Is there a cutoff point for supplying too much amperage?
I’ve never been any good at soldering, otherwise maybe I could just take a stab at making my own cable. Even if I felt like my soldering skills were competent enough to try it on my own, I guess I’d still have the same questions about voltage and amperage, though.
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The second big issue with the unit I have is the battery compartment. I thought if I could at least power up the deck with standard AA batteries, that might be an option, at least for a bit.
This is what’s printed on the bottom of the unit:
CD 12V (1.5V x 8 )
Size AA (LR 6)
DC 9.6V (1.2V x 8 )
Size AA (HR 15/51)
Note that the illustration of the battery orientation shown on the bottom of the unit is pretty typical - negative to positive for each row.
https://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206223.0;attach=152526;image
What I’m not used to seeing is the terminal configuration shown in my photo [IMG_5764] - the negative terminals are facing each other, and the positive terminals are also facing each other. How any batteries can be inserted into something like that is a mystery to me
https://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206223.0;attach=152522;image
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While I’m kicking myself for taking advantage of what I thought looked like a bargain, I’m trying to see if I can turn this around, and actually end up with a second working unit. Any helpful advice towards that goal would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out with this!
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Does it have reverse polarity like the R4? Unless they somehow fixed the issue, the R4 went through 8 AA's awful damn fast.
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Well, I don't really know about that. If you look at the photo of the battery compartment for the R4 PRO unit that I have, it would be impossible to load it with any type of batteries that I know about, unless there is some type of AA battery that has positive or negative terminals on both ends. It's like someone at Roland wired this unit backwards before it left the factory.
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Does it have reverse polarity like the R4? Unless they somehow fixed the issue, the R4 went through 8 AA's awful damn fast.
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Hmmmm
That really strange inside the AA battery compartment.
Are the terminal connectors soldered on or just snapped in place?
It looks like you can maybe take them out and snap them back in the correct way. :hmmm:
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My R4 is in storage temporarily so I can't take a picture of the battery compartment right now, but I don't recall ever having an issue loading standard AA's.
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What about this? Says it is compatible.
https://www.amazon.ca/MyVolts-supply-adaptor-compatible-Recorder/dp/B00GQV7FPA?th=1
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There is nothing on the deck that could be plugged into, though. The only power jack on the unit requires the 4-pin XLR connector.
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What about this? Says it is compatible.
https://www.amazon.ca/MyVolts-supply-adaptor-compatible-Recorder/dp/B00GQV7FPA?th=1
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https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1077442-REG/indipro_tools_ip4pps_12v_power_supply_with.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A6879&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD7yMh3zvBiOFA8o-VI9J9y4g-4uN&gclid=Cj0KCQiA57G5BhDUARIsACgCYnwzR7uCXe759_d-FN9BkwdUEMFa5NmjPBRsv4JoEAS2oK0IMCGVrQcaAtTFEALw_wcB
or dtap to 4pin xlr cable and dtap battery or power supply
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Looking at the first photo of the battery compartment. The two contact sets on the bottom or right side (depending on if you’re looking at the enlarged photo view or not) of the battery compartment are snapped in upside down. You should be able to pop them out from under the retaining tabs and flip them over. They should snap back in under the same tabs. Then the springs should match the polarity all the way through.
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I did look at that one before I started this thread; it seemed promising, but that's why I questioned earlier, I don't know how to determine if it's okay to have a 6A rating on the power converter, when the unit specifies 2A?
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https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1077442-REG/indipro_tools_ip4pps_12v_power_supply_with.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A6879&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD7yMh3zvBiOFA8o-VI9J9y4g-4uN&gclid=Cj0KCQiA57G5BhDUARIsACgCYnwzR7uCXe759_d-FN9BkwdUEMFa5NmjPBRsv4JoEAS2oK0IMCGVrQcaAtTFEALw_wcB
or dtap to 4pin xlr cable and dtap battery or power supply
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At first when I looked at them, I didn't really want to poke too hard, because the terminals appeared to be hard-wired, so I reckoned that was the case with all of them....
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Hmmmm
That really strange inside the AA battery compartment.
Are the terminal connectors soldered on or just snapped in place?
It looks like you can maybe take them out and snap them back in the correct way. :hmmm:
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Hmmm, when beatkilla had mentioned the same thing earlier, I was a bit reluctant to pry too much, because I thought the terminals were all hard wired in place. After seeing this comment, I took a closer look, and gently pried the terminals loose with a pair of tweezers. it turns out they do actually snap in place, and I was able to reverse them! So now at least, I was able to insert 8 AA batteries and power up the unit! Now I just need to either fork over $80 for a manufactured power supply, or take my chances with a soldering kit and try building my own. I do wish I had a better understanding of the amperage, though.
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Looking at the first photo of the battery compartment. The two contact sets on the bottom or right side (depending on if you’re looking at the enlarged photo view or not) of the battery compartment are snapped in upside down. You should be able to pop them out from under the retaining tabs and flip them over. They should snap back in under the same tabs. Then the springs should match the polarity all the way through.
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It's always ok to have a power supply capable of providing more power than the device needs. If the voltage is correct, and the polarity is correct, you should be golden.
This one is half the price and in NC, not china, so you should be able to get it faster:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/385563067575?_skw=12v+power+supply+xlr4&itmmeta=01JC5CQ5208A7KKYQV029VWWP8&hash=item59c55984b7:g:qOsAAOSwTN5h90vD&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKkRHfwLsiaJ%2BZe1tJDgyFYetwoTmdelwU4w4HfKxVepszLIKUxicCiNihT6oQSnywXPjqy3w%2B91t7PrSUV5UwH%2FsIE9f5Ad7Uucz68rcFF47GgK1p4B8z8DwEeKpJP8YEJHs1X%2FWxEhqtV21tx6IPCwHlI6TdbcOJphK69WyO0BzSGwBvSsxTy2QA9tNlKVwWs2fDmc5ftP4PYuyTy6Wt18DzWLZe4tF4pU08WP5W7gsX1KrukQPzLsR%2FuCe64ylig%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4zR3KzhZA
here's a 3a one in California:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/315855484791?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D276104%26meid%3D418eb41194f049f4ab3f775de588533f%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D385563067575%26itm%3D315855484791%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2332490%26algv%3DCompVIDesktopATF2V6%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2332490.c101196.m2219&itmprp=cksum%3A315855484791418eb41194f049f4ab3f775de588533f%7Cenc%3AAQAJAAABELx1mZQ2L9jLv%252BUPTFTna8XcGfl2wNJcn022gtZb5sDiWC04SymfJtvPA1ZFcUhx4JhaB%252B2G6VWN98SRCq629GXk9GQzoretjvtLUwJJ5lLMVJzYRP3K7J%252BAKscVMPgcUslwZMJpMhog3j%252FADQ%252BhS3Aw%252BguszbpuqaZ82UjMiZu7zKsCcWa8UwKtbQqWeZlyHuZ8AWztRiCVrAoLSxlfpPHlOK5%252B2HloGAHxZKLjAnNGo2GnB8iezUeXyT02TDRJMBcj6QmXQVoioU2orE%252BHM2MyPLgOnm0kN%252F3OxBb4GfLv9qE0r6ecroSr1WLXplcsvloFPbAt1oLopqybxY6OirnxkjOZ5ljx6pU4%252FKXNlnXA%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2332490&itmmeta=01JC5CRD616BZ88XERH2G8AXF2
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i dont understand why you dont simply purchase a 4pin female xlr neutrix connector, and then cut the end off the ac adaptor listed. if you want more flexibility , buy 3 xlr's (2 female and one male) and then put those in-line with tthe ac adaptor.
if you get the parts, i'd be glad to solder it for you. i'm in central VA, certainly no pro, but have crossed this bridge before when wiring 4pin xlrs to our 12v sla's or the lithium batt packs.
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Hi, and thanks for that - I've been researching a bit, and It does seem like *some* extra power would be okay; I was just trying to determine if there's a point at which it might end up being too much extra.
The seller based in NC is one I was looking at. I'm not really worried about fast shipping, I just would like to try avoiding a cheap knock-off.
The seller of the 3A cable listed as tgdghg in CA is one I had written of earlier - when I went to look up their feedback, they are show as saralab02, in China. Not the first tie I've seen sellers hide behind a fake identity.
Thanks for your help, though!
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It's always ok to have a power supply capable of providing more power than the device needs. If the voltage is correct, and the polarity is correct, you should be golden.
This one is half the price and in NC, not china, so you should be able to get it faster:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/385563067575
here's a 3a one in California:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/315855484791
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Hi! Thanks for the ideas and the offer! I am thinking I should have a go at doing this myself at this point, but I just wanted to be sure I would be getting the right parts, so I wouldn't sweat it out doing a shoddy soldering job, and then end up blowing up the unit anyway. I do need to just sit down and spend some time getting better at soldering, in any case, because I have other cables that would benefit from it.
It seems really weird, though, that Roland hasn't made those available as standalone cables. I mean, if I want to pick up another PSB-1U Power Supply for my Edirol R4, I see them around from time to time on ebay, Reverb, etc. But this particular cable doesn't even seem to have a name. And as others have pointed out in various other threads, Roland seems to be pretty good at social distancing when someone needs support.
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i dont understand why you dont simply purchase a 4pin female xlr neutrix connector, and then cut the end off the ac adaptor listed. if you want more flexibility , buy 3 xlr's (2 female and one male) and then put those in-line with tthe ac adaptor.
if you get the parts, i'd be glad to solder it for you. i'm in central VA, certainly no pro, but have crossed this bridge before when wiring 4pin xlrs to our 12v sla's or the lithium batt packs.
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Hi, and thanks for that - I've been researching a bit, and It does seem like *some* extra power would be okay; I was just trying to determine if there's a point at which it might end up being too much
You really don’t need to worry about a power supply being able to supply too much. If your device needs 2 amps, your power supply need to be able to provide at least 2 amps. It’s ok if it COULD supply 5A, 10A or 1000A, as it will only provide the current the device will draw from it. It’s not like the power supply is pushing the current through the device!
So just make sure the voltage matches and that the power supply can provide sufficient current…
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Jez posted while I was typing, same answer as the others essentially..
Hi, and thanks for that - I've been researching a bit, and It does seem like *some* extra power would be okay; I was just trying to determine if there's a point at which it might end up being too much extra.
Using a power supply with a higher amperage capacity will not cause a problem. The recorder will just pull from it whatever current it needs. A power supply that does not provide enough amperage IS likely to be problematic and should be avoided, but not an over-spec'd one. Make sure the supply provides at least 2A, and as grawk mentions, make sure the voltage and polarity (how the connector is wired) are correct, and you should be good. The range of amperages you mention finding above are all acceptable.
tl;dr- But what are the implications when taken to the extreme? If some kind of internal short failure were to occur inside the recorder, it would create a very low resistance circuit path which would in turn cause an unusually high current draw. The power supply would then attempt to compensate and provide the additional current up to the limits of its capacity. But since we are taking about well designed recording equipment, there is most likely an internal fuse in the recorder that is designed to blow in that kind of over-current situation, thus protecting the system and the user from catastrophic damage. Short occurs, current draw rises, fuse heats up and blows. That sequence occurs with any external supply of sufficient current capacity. But lets rig the situation and take things to a ridiculous extreme. Say someone bypasses the fuse and is using a power supply with absolutely massive amperage reserves. The recorder works just fine until that internal short occurs, but lacking the protective action of the fuse, current across the short-circuit is no longer limited. The power supply does its job and provides as much current as it has available, essentially creating an arc welder. So, best not to bypass fuses or use welder-sized power supplies when unnecessary.
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Thanks again for all this info! This is all making sense to me, and trust me - I've been doing a lot of independent research into the same areas discussed here, so I fell like I am actually learning from this discussion, and not just asking folks to solve my problems for me.
The only other question I have is: why is the Power Supply listed as: (9–16 V)?
The battery (DC) power is clearly 12V, so that's why I've been looking for a connector rated at 12V. But can anyone explain why is there such a range, from 9V - 16V?
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Just makes selection of an external power supply easier since you aren't limited to using a supply that's specifically 12V or whatever. Nice when powering several things like a recorder and preamp or whatever from a single USB battery that has both 12V and 9V outputs for instance.
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Sure, that makes sense - thanks again!
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Just makes selection of an external power supply easier since you aren't limited to using a supply that's specifically 12V or whatever. Nice when powering several things like a recorder and preamp or whatever from a single USB battery that has both 12V and 9V outputs for instance.