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Gear / Technical Help => Post-Processing, Computer / Streaming / Internet Devices & Related Activity => Topic started by: magicsalsa on July 26, 2004, 09:20:00 PM
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Currently, I'm a PC user. Due to my soundcard's many input options, including S/PDIF, and this handy-dandy, hot-wired Sony 7-pin input/output cable (that was oh-so cheap, let me tell you) - DAT transfers are simple. However, I'm preparing to "go Mac" soon for all my audio processing needs. The new Apple G5 only has an optical input/output and I've checked with many music, electronic, and computer stores for some kind of 7-pin or RCA adapter, but I've had no luck.
Does anyone know the best way to transfer audio from a portable DAT onto a MAC (G5, G4, iBook, Powerbook, etc.)?
magicsalsa
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You don't specify your DAT machine, but a Sony 7 - pin to optical connector is for sale in the yard sale:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=23213.0
Seems like that would work with the G5 optical in.
The other way would be to stay coax and use a USB interface, such as a UA-5 or a Firewire box.
aloha
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if your soundcard is supported by mac, why not throw it into your new mac
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I use a Edirol UA-1D. No it's not bit perfect but it is easy to use and runs with the G4 iBook I have with no problems. Can find them pretty cheap on ebay quite often. it uses USB if your interested. You also don't need anything more than the sony 7 pin you have now.
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get a cheap 30 dollar coax > optical converter.
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DAT: Sony PCM-M1 Portable DAT recorder
Sound Card: Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS (doesn't look to be supported by Apple...so far)
Cable: Sony RK-DA10P coaxial to 7-pin cable (normally just an input cable, but modified to have output).
Looks like my only option is the 7-pin to optical (didn't even know one existed).
It's weird - I'm trying to connect a DAT, a digital recording unit of choice by many professionals (albeit out of production - this might be key here), to the #1 computer in the world for audio processing. Does anyone else find the difficulty in doing this...strange?
magicsalsa
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It doesn't seem so difficult. The sound card you have resamples so you wouldn't want that anyway. Just get a cheap format converter from ratshack and you're all set.
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>>It's weird - I'm trying to connect a DAT, a digital recording unit of choice by many professionals (albeit out of production - this might be key here), to the #1 computer in the world for audio processing. Does anyone else find the difficulty in doing this...strange?
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1. if it's a g5, why are you using a creative card?
2. you already said the card isn't supported, so isn't that your answer on why that doesn't work?
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John K - are you saying the soundcard I have loses bit depth when recording, and that's why I wouldn't want to use it in the first place?
Scott - I bought my Creative card for my PC, on which I currently do all my audio processing. I do NOT own a Mac yet, but plan on getting one this year. The last thing on my mind was trying to use my current sound card. I really thought there was a good, pure, clean way to transfer audio from the DAT to the Mac out there - liike a quality cable or adapter. The Edirol UA-1D will get the audio there, but it'll lose some quality on the way. And to me, that's not the way it would be professionally done. Therefore, yes, this is difficult. Maybe I'm missing something.
Cheap format converter from ratshack? What format are we talking about? What's ratshack?
Thanks for your help - I truly appreciate it.
magicsalsa
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>> I really thought there was a good, pure, clean way to transfer audio from the DAT to the Mac out there - liike a quality cable or adapter. The Edirol UA-1D will get the audio there, but it'll lose some quality on the way. And to me, that's not the way it would be professionally done. Therefore, yes, this is difficult. Maybe I'm missing something.<<
there are plenty of "good, pure, clean" ways to transfer the audio from the DAT to the mac, just like on a pc. most pci/usb/firewire devices will work (with the exception of creative's stuff, which isn't the "pure" or "clean" you're looking for anyway)
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Ratshack = Radio Shack. Check out this thread for a *possible* solution:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22675.0
It's cheap, but unproven, so if you're not willing to do a lot of tinkering, I wouldn't go that route.
The sound card that you have doesn't lose bit-depth, but it takes the incoming signal and resamples it to its OWN 44.1kHz signal, even if the original incoming signal is also 44.1kHz - i.e., what's coming out of the DAT isn't the same as what's being recorded to the HD. The same thing happens with the Edirol UA-1D (and all Edirol products).
Try a search on "bit-perfect" here and you'll come up with some solutions that will definitely work on your Mac. For what it's worth, I've got an emi 2|6 just lying around that will work on Mac AND PC if you're interested, but poke around and see what's got the features you're looking for in the price range you want...
--Dave
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Ratshack = Radio Shack. Check out this thread for a *possible* solution:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22675.0
It's cheap, but unproven, so if you're not willing to do a lot of tinkering, I wouldn't go that route.
Unproven? How so? All it does is convert a signal. What else does it have to prove?
And the only tinkering required would be hooking it up. After that you're done.
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Ratshack = Radio Shack. Check out this thread for a *possible* solution:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22675.0
It's cheap, but unproven, so if you're not willing to do a lot of tinkering, I wouldn't go that route.
Unproven? How so? All it does is convert a signal. What else does it have to prove?
And the only tinkering required would be hooking it up. After that you're done.
unproven as in no one knows if it is bit-perfect or drops samples like most format convertors
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Ratshack = Radio Shack. Check out this thread for a *possible* solution:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22675.0
It's cheap, but unproven, so if you're not willing to do a lot of tinkering, I wouldn't go that route.
Unproven? How so? All it does is convert a signal. What else does it have to prove?
And the only tinkering required would be hooking it up. After that you're done.
unproven as in no one knows if it is bit-perfect or drops samples like most format convertors
Ah, I thought format converters were all bit perfect... ;)
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Ratshack = Radio Shack. Check out this thread for a *possible* solution:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22675.0
It's cheap, but unproven, so if you're not willing to do a lot of tinkering, I wouldn't go that route.
Unproven? How so? All it does is convert a signal. What else does it have to prove?
And the only tinkering required would be hooking it up. After that you're done.
unproven as in no one knows if it is bit-perfect or drops samples like most format convertors
Ah, I thought format converters were all bit perfect... ;)
And I thought We were all a bit imperfect. :)
All this anthropomorphism: sound cards with something to prove.
Or virginal, pristine sound cards which are "good, clean & pure", What, made by monks???
I still say that the hardware is crying out for an optical out from the M1 into the G5. No converters required, no resampling, just using the hardware that's already built-in and (theoretically) optimized for use with the rest of the system.
All other solutions seem unnecessarily complex, and like work-arounds for the native hardware solution.
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I've written an email to Sonic Sense - the sound engineering place I bought my DAT and 7-pin>coax cable. Hopefully, they'll have some insight as well. I'll let you know what they say. Thanks for your input, everyone.
magicsalsa
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there was a thread the other day about I think Pro Digital having the 7pin>optical cable...not sure if it was optical input though
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>>I've written an email to Sonic Sense - the sound engineering place I bought my DAT and 7-pin>coax cable. Hopefully, they'll have some insight as well. I'll let you know what they say. Thanks for your input, everyone.
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it's easy. if you are getting a g5, just get a cheap coax > optical converter
if you're getting a different mac, either get a usb, firewire or pci card and make sure it's NOT made by Creative.
it's no different from a pc. the same hardware works (with the exception of Creative interfaces, which i tend to ignore anyway)
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So, it would go:
DAT > 7-pin > coax > (f2f coupler here) > coax > optical > G5
Man, there's gotta be some loss with that. But, who knows - maybe not. I'm checking.
magicsalsa
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So, it would go:
DAT > 7-pin > coax > (f2f coupler here) > coax > optical > G5
Man, there's gotta be some loss with that. But, who knows - maybe not. I'm checking.
magicsalsa
not quite
dat> 7pin> coax> convertor> optical> G5
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Sonic Sense got back with me. They recommended for DAT>Optical - Hosa’s ODL-276 or ODL-312 (276 is spdif<>optical; the 312 is AES<>optical). This is not considered a cheap coax>optical converter, which I wanted to avoid in the first place. Apparently, both of these converters have proven themselves "bit perfect" in tests that Sonic Sense ran right here on taperssection.com. Price is about $57.
Now, I also found out that the Nomad JB3 not only plays and records MP3s, but can also be used for WAV file recording - 44.1 or 48. Sorry, if some of you knew this, but there were a few that weren't sure. However, I don't know how much storage a JB3 has, so it may not be as practical as a DAT with an endless supply of tapes.
-magicsalsa
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Sonic Sense got back with me. They recommended for DAT>Optical - Hosa’s ODL-276 or ODL-312 (276 is spdif<>optical; the 312 is AES<>optical). This is not considered a cheap coax>optical converter, which I wanted to avoid in the first place. Apparently, both of these converters have proven themselves "bit perfect" in tests that Sonic Sense ran right here on taperssection.com. Price is about $57.
Now, I also found out that the Nomad JB3 not only plays and records MP3s, but can also be used for WAV file recording - 44.1 or 48. Sorry, if some of you knew this, but there were a few that weren't sure. However, I don't know how much storage a JB3 has, so it may not be as practical as a DAT with an endless supply of tapes.
-magicsalsa
I gotta go with the suggestion of simply getting a 7 pin optical cable and hooking it directly to the G5. No adapters necessary.
And there is TONS of information on the "Recording Gear" forum about the JB3.
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what chipset does the G5's native optical interface use? does it resample? what bit-depth/sample rates will it handle?
strictly interested here... about time apple built digi i/o into their hi end boxes.
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what chipset does the G5's native optical interface use? does it resample? what bit-depth/sample rates will it handle?
Quoted from link below:
"The sound circuitry and audio device drivers handle audio data in multiple formats. Both digital and analog sound circuitry handle audio input and output data at sample rates of 32.0 kHz, 44.1 kHz, and 48.0 kHz at sample depths of 16 bits and 24 bits."
Check out this Apple developer's page for more info on the G5's audio hardware:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G5/PowerMacG5/3Input-Output/chapter_4_section_11.html
strictly interested here... about time apple built digi i/o into their hi end boxes.
Apple has been supporting pro audio (built in) on select models since the early 90's. The G5's have just kicked it up a notch.
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Now, I also found out that the Nomad JB3 not only plays and records MP3s, but can also be used for WAV file recording - 44.1 or 48. Sorry, if some of you knew this, but there were a few that weren't sure. However, I don't know how much storage a JB3 has, so it may not be as practical as a DAT with an endless supply of tapes.
Oh buddy, it's practical. The JB3 comes in 20GB and 40GB (and is upgradeable). Check out the JB3 FAQ here for all the particulars:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=14;action=display;threadid=16338
This thread might have some good JB3 info for you too:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=21017.15#msg267963
I use a JB3 and a G5 and must say that the pairing is quite nice (although somebody needs to hack that Creative plug-in for iTunes to work better). I'm hoping the next round of iPods support something like the same high quality recording the JB3 does... tapers everywhere!