Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: DaryanLenz on May 26, 2003, 07:11:47 PM
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OK, so some thoughts on some things I saw this weekend...where in the world do people learn to set-up their microphones. I can't stress this enough to the newer tapers, read the mic confirguration FAQ's that are availible both here and at the dpa and oade sites. Some of the set-ups I saw, covering the whole gambit from low end 1000's all the way up to schoeps with actives, werew just awful. Like running xy except with too much spacing, mics angled in but spaced. I don't know where people read this stuff, but geesh. Another guy ran a 20 ft split of some km184's...now I have heard spaced cards before, but 20ft. Anyone for some serious phasing! Let this serve as a friendly reminder that I seriously reccomend reading about mic placement and set-up before venturing into the field. Don't think that making a huge investment will gurantee good tapes, because this is just simply not true. Have fun, but become educated...your tapes and my ears will thank you down the road. Have a good one!
Daryan
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Daryan...I agree. A high cost rig run by a fool will sound...well...foolish :P I've seen some funky setups too....I can usually understand if someone is running a "beginner" rig but when you've got $3-4000 worth of gear in tow.....please know how to use it!! ;)
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Yeah, I just don't get it. How can someone run mics completely and uetterly wrong, and then get mad at someone who was trying to helop you get a tape that your current setup would not get. I dunno, just some food for though...
Daryan
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Some think their way is the best. One thing I always notice is how little people actually know. Not that they can't learn they just don't wish to. Some simply don't care.
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agreed, learn how to use your gear before you use it. Nothing better than seeing some with new mics running them in some wacked out config. What is that config called, PAF (point at floor)? ;D
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I wish i had a pic of some of the setups in raleigh. sheesh. It was really bad....I guess i should've leaned over and said something to the guy but i usually keep to myself unless someone asks for my .02......but when they guy has one pointed at the sky and the other at the right stack......i should've said something. I see several tapers who point at the stacks everytime i see them at shows......after a few years of taping, it seems they would've stumbled upon some info at some point.
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you guyz have never heard of the "sky-stacks" method....the results are great....yeah right...... ;) :'(
bean
p.s.- ignorance is bliss........i know as soon as i got my mics, i was playing around w/ spacing and whatnot immediately....what a payoff that has been..... 8)
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you aint gonna learn what you dont wanna know. i have seen all too much ppl pointing at the sky, even from the balcony at the beacon!
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Like running xy except with too much spacing, mics angled in but spaced.
What's wrong w/ doing this? From what I understand, vertical spacing does'nt make that much of a difference...... or am I mis-understanding you?
Kevin
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how do you all know what these people were doing? maybe they were experimenting? as for people pointing at the ceiling in the beacon, are you sure these aren't side address capsules, like the 4v's or maybe a set of omni's? same with the guy in raleigh, could this have been an m/s setup? the 20ft spaced 184's, could they have been 183's?
-damon
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the 20' spaced were definately 184's. spaced cards... I did it once, just to try it and never again, hehe. I also only spaced em 10' or so.
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I was at the second Raleigh Panic show and Joe is exactly right. There were some ass-backwards configurations there. If they were experimenting, well, I am no scientist, but there are some things that you just don't do because you kind of know (or SHOULD know) what the results will be in advance.
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Yeah, I just don't get it. How can someone run mics completely and uetterly wrong, and then get mad at someone who was trying to helop you get a tape that your current setup would not get. I dunno, just some food for though...
I think it also depends on how you "help". If you just go over and pull the "Hey, bro, what the F?" routine, you're probably going to get ignored. However, if you say. "hi, that's an interesting mic configuration. You pull some nice tapes that way?"
Basically play dumb initially, and let them explain it to you. Then try to influence how his mics are setup by suggesting some changes. Make sure to use statements like: "Have you ever tried..." or "You might want to try..."
I think the bottom line is don't come off as some gearhead and you might get them to make some changes.
Wayne
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at the beacon, the guy was pointing them at a 45degree angle to the roof, and no, they werent 4v's, i think they were like shotguns or something, which is what alarmed me to begin with. i asked him if he meant to do that and he said, "uhh..i guess not". his rig crapped out during the 1st set and he patched from me second set.
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I generally try to help tapers out with setup by approaching them and saying something like, hey bud, have you ever tried this configuration" after seeing what they are doing and knowing what kind of tape was going to be made. The general response is, "uhh, what's that?." Then it is fun to watch their faces as you explain taping, distances, angles, seperation as they try to soak it all in. I generally do this with taper's more my age, as I have gotten the cold shoulder from older tapers who think I have no idea what I am talking about since they have been doing it longer than I and I being 24 probably doesn't help. Justin is a great example on this board of someone who took the time to read and know what he was doing when I first started running full rig. Only had a couple of questions, and I pointed him in the right direction...which coincidentally was on-stage DIN! Wayne, those 184's were definately 184's, I asked the kid who was dripping in sweat trying to get set-up in less than the 10 minutes he had before Keller...kind of amusing I thought!
Daryan
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Hell i have had a dude come completely resteup my rig for me before. Down at keller in New Orleans, I was trying an xy but the damn sabra som was having difficulty staying the postion that i had it set in. This guy from Chicago comes over and tells me i am running to high so i pull them down and then i look up and he is repositioning my mics. I dont know what you call what he did (pointed at the stacks about 8' apart) but the tapes sounded good. Being the newb that i am, i am always open to anything anyone has to tell me.
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Being the newb that i am, i am always open to anything anyone has to tell me.
Same here!
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I generally try to help tapers out with setup by approaching them and saying something like, hey bud, have you ever tried this configuration" after seeing what they are doing and knowing what kind of tape was going to be made. The general response is, "uhh, what's that?." Then it is fun to watch their faces as you explain taping, distances, angles, seperation as they try to soak it all in. I generally do this with taper's more my age, as I have gotten the cold shoulder from older tapers who think I have no idea what I am talking about since they have been doing it longer than I and I being 24 probably doesn't help. Justin is a great example on this board of someone who took the time to read and know what he was doing when I first started running full rig. Only had a couple of questions, and I pointed him in the right direction...which coincidentally was on-stage DIN! Wayne, those 184's were definately 184's, I asked the kid who was dripping in sweat trying to get set-up in less than the 10 minutes he had before Keller...kind of amusing I thought!
Daryan
Yep, those were deffinately 184's. I'd say they were split more like 12' though, my 15' cable made it 3/4 of the split & the stand was 8' high. Jeff thanks for letting me barrow your extra cable. As far as being a newbie & ignorant of proper mic configurations. I was aware that there would probably be a hole in the soundstage(which there is), but as their were lots of other knowledgeable tapers in attendance i wasn't too concerned 'bout pulling the worlds greatest tape. I've been taping for several years now & have READ & tried pretty much every common configuration in all sorts of enviornments. However; i'm also a firm believer in learning from experience & not just doin' something 'cause someone tells you thats the way to do it. Just felt like trying somethin' different that day, like jeff said it'll probably be the last time i'll try split cards. Just incase your interested the night before i ran NOS a couple of sets & ORTF the others. & Daryan, i don't recall you being all too concerned about pointing me in the right direction. More like you made some snide comment 'bout how i must be running some high end shit.
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I will tell you, I was so damn high I wouldn't have been much help to anyone at all. Sorry if you took it personally, I certainly wasn;t trying to offend...but rather make an observation about splitting cards, which just didn't make any sense to me at all. And I wasn't picking you out at all as far as being a newbie, but rather just making a blanket statement about setting up gear. Sorry dude.
Daryan
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I agree with the advice of "Ask, Ask , Ask and then ask some more and READ READ and READ some more and then ask again"... it is a life time education.
My second show I got big headed and figured I had this taper thing all figured out and knew that the Line in/Mic switch on my Sony D100 DAT would give me more sensitivity and boost the signal in to the DAT... Little did I know about "Brick walling" and the gap in the floor... sounded like I had dragged the mic’s all the way home on the road recording over the show... I was pissed and leaned a good lesson that show - Listen to the advice that works don't be afraid to experiment, but ask first. There is a good chance that somebody somewhere has already done that and got the tape nailed to the wall as a reminder....
Of course these are my .02 worth
Bill 'The Newbie"
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+T for grabbin up the new avatar, bill...... ;) 8)
bean
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Thanks, had my eye on a few others, but that one really hit home.... but I am always looking for new stuff
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Thanks everyone for all the tickets... I have three shows taped so far (Two turned out well) and will be going to Alpine this Sunday to tape DMB. Thanks again. Will let you all know how it turned out. Just got a MP2 to add to the rig. Before it was just stand, Mic's and a DAT. Real Basic. But now with the MP2, I hope to improve the quality. Next on my list is the SBM-1... but that is aways off. Thanks for all the stories and advice - It really helps to read and think about what you all have already done. I have solved several questions just by reading the posts. Thanks again!!
Bill "The Newbie"
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Thanks everyone for all the tickets... I have three shows taped so far (Two turned out well) and will be going to Alpine this Sunday to tape DMB. Thanks again. Will let you all know how it turned out. Just got a MP2 to add to the rig. Before it was just stand, Mic's and a DAT. Real Basic. But now with the MP2, I hope to improve the quality. Next on my list is the SBM-1... but that is aways off. Thanks for all the stories and advice - It really helps to read and think about what you all have already done. I have solved several questions just by reading the posts. Thanks again!!
Bill "The Newbie"
you enjoy yourself....... :afro: ;)
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First off ticket to nmculbreth for providing a beginning to a show - read on
+T nmculbreth
Man sometimes we can be our own worst enemy...
I was using a DAT tape and did not pay attention to the length of the tape and at the encore the tape had about two minutes left... recorded crowd noise till it ran out at 2 hours and 3 minutes... the DAT rewound and in my semi state of panic... I hit RECORD.... DOH!!! I guess I need to pay attention to what my gear is doing...
But anyway, Thanks to a fellow taper who bumped my up about 10 row to about 20 feet from the left stack - and provided his DAT after his equip died about 1/2 way through the show. THANKS Nick...you da MAN. Still mixing the 2 shows in my free time ( New Job, just moved too...)
Thanks again Nick...
Bill "My own worst enemy"