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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: bodegahwy on December 29, 2004, 07:04:19 PM
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Any ideas, suggestions, experiences with taking those old master cassettes and digitizing them? I am thinking that I should run them from the Nak into the UA-5 at 24/96 into the computer and then resample down to 16/44 to put on CD. Is that the way to go or would it better to just sample it at 16/44 to begin with?
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do you have a way to store the 24/96 files? That would be ideal... record at 24/96.. store an archive copy then dither/resample to 16/44.1
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I've been doing this for a while now. I have also consulted with a lot of tapers about this issue. IMO, the answer is as Tim asked, if you have space to store 24/96 files, or even 24/48 files, then I woud transfer at that rate, downsample to 44.1 to be able to listen on CD or trade it.
My problem is I don't have a set up which would enable me to store very many HIGH res transfers, so I have done about half of my transfers @ 24/48, and the rest @ 16/44.1 just to make it easier on my chore load.
I use a ECHO Gina 24/96 from the analog into a G-4 with BIAS PEAK as my record/editing tool.
the UA-5 should work as the interface just fine.
Don't forget , that for optimal results your azimuth alignment on the playback Cassette deck should be able to be automatically adjustable or manually adjustable.
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if you're going to record at 24/96, then definitely keep a backup of the original WAV files (or AIFF, if you're on a MAC). blank DVD media is so cheap now - you can get a 50 spindle of TY DVD-Rs for right at $30 - that it's a worthwhile investment. my mind is a bit mush right now, but i *think* a 2-hour WAV file at 24/96 would be right at 4,000 MB (or, loosely, 4 GB). and that's not taking into account you can compress the WAV file losslessly to FLAC (or WavPack - which is what i use to archive my original transfers).
anyway, that's my 2 cents on the topic. :)
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do you have a way to store the 24/96 files? That would be ideal... record at 24/96.. store an archive copy then dither/resample to 16/44.1
Again, thanks to everyone for all the helpful ideas and willingness to share them.
I do have a way to store a limited number of shows this way at 3-5 Gigs apiece. Compressing them to flac would make that problem managable.
1. What software would you use for the dither/resample step?
2. Will the resulting 16/44 CD sound any better than if I just do it at 16/44 to begin with?
Thanks again.
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to answer question #1 I would recommend using Wavelab... it utilizes Apogee's UV22HR dithering scheme.
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Can anybody suggest a quality cassette deck (besides a dragon) that would be ideal.
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so am i wasting my time running analog masters this way..?
dr-1 (w/azimuth adj) > line mod sbm1 > ap2496 @ 16/48
i have a few i need to do pronto, so if that route is no good, does anybody in soCal have a v3 i could use for the task..?
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Can anybody suggest a quality cassette deck (besides a dragon) that would be ideal.
i personally use a Denon DRM-740. it's an excellent deck for playing back analog tapes, and it's a 3-head deck. from what i've read, newer decks aren't as good for playback in terms of quality. (which makes sense - when analog cassettes were more popular, obviously the technology would be geared for that format during that time perdiod. plus, i've yet to find a new cassette deck that has 3 heads, as opposed to 2 heads, for less than a large chunk of money.)
to the OP (original poster), as far as dithering, Tim's suggestion of using WaveLab is good. Adobe Audition (formerly known as Cool Edit) will probably do a decent job of it as well, but possibly not as good as WaveLab.
macdaddy - i wouldn't say you're wasting your time. if your final format that you want for your transfers i'd CD-audio (16/44.1), then that setup you're running looks quite nice. however, if you are wanting higher resolution transfers (to put onto DVD discs for playback), then you *might* want to look at changing your setup.
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Can anybody suggest a quality cassette deck (besides a dragon) that would be ideal.
i personally use a Denon DRM-740. it's an excellent deck for playing back analog tapes, and it's a 3-head deck. from what i've read, newer decks aren't as good for playback in terms of quality. (which makes sense - when analog cassettes were more popular, obviously the technology would be geared for that format during that time perdiod. plus, i've yet to find a new cassette deck that has 3 heads, as opposed to 2 heads, for less than a large chunk of money.)
to the OP (original poster), as far as dithering, Tim's suggestion of using WaveLab is good. Adobe Audition (formerly known as Cool Edit) will probably do a decent job of it as well, but possibly not as good as WaveLab.
macdaddy - i wouldn't say you're wasting your time. if your final format that you want for your transfers i'd CD-audio (16/44.1), then that setup you're running looks quite nice. however, if you are wanting higher resolution transfers (to put onto DVD discs for playback), then you *might* want to look at changing your setup.
A 3 head deck is irrelevant for playback...3 heads are handy when recording...but worthless when playing back....
and it's a bit harder to adjust the azimuth on a 3 head...plus you risk ruining the alingment between the heads...
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Can anybody suggest a quality cassette deck (besides a dragon) that would be ideal.
Any good single well deck will be fine...Denon, Sony, Nak...avoid auto-reverse and 3 head decks...look for something that gives you easy access to the azimuth screw (most of the doors on these decks just pop, and slide off)
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A 3 head deck is irrelevant for playback...3 heads are handy when recording...but worthless when playing back....
and it's a bit harder to adjust the azimuth on a 3 head...plus you risk ruining the alingment between the heads...
"Worthless" isn't quite right. The upper frequency the deck can "extract" from the magnetic tape depends on the width of the air gap in the magnetic head. The smaller the air-gap the more extended the frequency range.
A well made 3 head deck will have a playback head optimized for extracting all information on the tape. This isn't possible when using a single head for both write and read.
Jon
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i personally use a Denon DRM-740. it's an excellent deck for playing back analog tapes, and it's a 3-head deck. from what i've read, newer decks aren't as good for playback in terms of quality.
Is that my old deck? I sold that unit to somebody a year or two ago. I barely used the thing in 5 years of ownership. It was a great unit, but I was ending my cassette phase when I bought it, but didn't want to be without one.
As far as this post goes, trying to do anything at 24-bit vs. 16-bit when transferring is well worth the disc space. 96 KHz is excessive in the sampling rate, but 24-bits is well worth it.
Wayne
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Thanks everybody for the ideas and input.
So if I followed all that....
1. Get the best cassette deck I can get my hands on amd make sure it is properly adjusted.
2. Record at 24/ 44 or 48 (per 96 being a higher sample rate than is useful here?)
3. Use Wavelab to resample at 16/44 for CDs or burn at 24 bits to DVDs?
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You're on the right track, but as far as sampling rates, there's been I think 2 threads about a month old that debate the old sample rate question. Go find them. It's a fun debate.
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I have a question about this too. I'm converting an old cassette to digital and this is what gear I have:
Sony TC-WE475 (player)
Onkyo HT-R500 (reciever)
NJB3
Should I not even fool with the reciever and record straight from the player RCA Out to my JB3 Line In or should I go player to reciever rca out to JB3 Line In? I definitely wish I had a good A/D converter on my hands but I don't. Any quick suggestions?
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Ok, That's what I was thinking.... asked that while I was in the middle of transferring without the reciever. Thanks for the quick response!
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Ok, That's what I was thinking.... asked that while I was in the middle of transferring without the reciever. Thanks for the quick response!
Also, given that the jb3 analog-in can add some hard drive noise, I would run the signal in as hot as you can and turn the gain on the jb3 down if need be. (but also watch for brickwalling)
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I love the sound of those Analog tapes just wish I had more of them..So far I have just transfered them to dat 48K.Makes me wanna go buy a WM-D6 and a Ice Cream cone...
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Can anybody suggest a quality cassette deck (besides a dragon) that would be ideal.
Tascam 122 mkIII
I may be wrong about this, so correct me if I am - I believe that the Nakamichi decks actually write the information to a smaller strip of tape than a regualr deck. A regualr cassette is used, but the deck writes to the center portion of the tape, with no information being written to the outer edges (not sure if I explained that very well). If you play a 'regular' tape back on a Nak deck, the deck can not read all of the info on that tape. That is more or less how it was explained to me - straighten me out if I got it wrong! ;D
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I may be wrong about this, so correct me if I am - I believe that the Nakamichi decks actually write the information to a smaller strip of tape than a regualr deck. A regualr cassette is used, but the deck writes to the center portion of the tape, with no information being written to the outer edges (not sure if I explained that very well). If you play a 'regular' tape back on a Nak deck, the deck can not read all of the info on that tape. That is more or less how it was explained to me - straighten me out if I got it wrong! ;D
Can anyone confirm this?