Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Post-Processing, Computer / Streaming / Internet Devices & Related Activity => Topic started by: Ray76 on January 07, 2005, 07:03:48 PM
-
I want to have a PC that is great for keeping my shows on, has a great sound card, and a lot of expansion and upgrade capability. I am also a musician, so will be doing SOME recording and mixing. I want this computer to be great for storing and playing back, and blazing through applications and such....Im not really a gamer per se, but maybe will ocassionally play something if it is really good. As I said this will primarily be my AUDIO/TAPER PC....Need some killer audio specs., good storage and fast processor prefer 64 bit. I would like to keep the actual TOWER part under 1500 if possible.....
I will be building this one myself, or having someone else build it. No premade stuff for me anymore.
Thanks folks.
Ray
-
I'm surprised that you didn't get a response yet.
I don't know what is driving your 64-bit requirement, but that isn't really neccessary for most audio work. If you are just out for more speed in post processing, OK then. But you don't need a high powered box to keep up with even the fastest burners or the transfer rates you'll likely see on a home server using DSL/cable.
If you are going to use this for a media server, I'd think you would be better served getting a less expensive processor and putting more money into a super quiet case and lots of storage so you can keep more shows online.
I would recommend getting a soundcard with bit-true SPDIF interfaces and an outboard 24/96 A/D like the Bel Canto for audio playback. I don't think you are ever going to find anything that mounts inside a tower that will match a mid priced outboard DAC for sound quality. There is a recent dicussion about this on audio asylum that might interest you.
If it were me, I'd spend half that $1500 on a good 24/96 DAC and use the reset to build a tower with 500G of HD space. That would give you great sound and hold about 400 shows compressed.
-
I'm surprised that you didn't get a response yet.
I don't know what is driving your 64-bit requirement, but that isn't really neccessary for most audio work. If you are just out for more speed in post processing, OK then. But you don't need a high powered box to keep up with even the fastest burners or the transfer rates you'll likely see on a home server using DSL/cable.
If you are going to use this for a media server, I'd think you would be better served getting a less expensive processor and putting more money into a super quiet case and lots of storage so you can keep more shows online.
I would recommend getting a soundcard with bit-true SPDIF interfaces and an outboard 24/96 A/D like the Bel Canto for audio playback. I don't think you are ever going to find anything that mounts inside a tower that will match a mid priced outboard DAC for sound quality. There is a recent dicussion about this on audio asylum that might interest you.
If it were me, I'd spend half that $1500 on a good 24/96 DAC and use the reset to build a tower with 500G of HD space. That would give you great sound and hold about 400 shows compressed.
Now see, I dont even know what a dac is.....I am just getting to understand my rig and converting and all on my pc....So, if YOU were gonna build with my budget, what would you do???
My current rig is on the bottom of the page. Could you give me some specs, and brand names??I am building this from scratch. ALso, what kind of DAC would you get??Tell me a list if as if you were building.
I am new to this, and constantly learning. Thanks.Ray
Here is a tentative sketch of my plan for my pc...Check out the parts and tell me what you think..
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-120&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=27-106-823&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=22-148-063&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=27-129-157&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-369&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-498&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-486&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-145-076&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=29-102-181&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE
Thanks man.
Ray
-
That looks like a hell of a nice machine that you are building. I'm not up to date on PC hardware but many people here are, so they would be better able to comment on your selections.
I do have an antec tower. I really like it and feel that it is well designed and constructed. However, it is not a quiet case and I would not put the one I have into an audio system rack because the fan noise would be louder than the quiet passages of the music I like.
I don't know what other applications you have in mind, but your memory and processor selection is much more than you need for routine audio applications. I got a 2.4G celeron and 512M memory. That's MUCH less performance than what you have listed, but I spent about $600 for my system (including a used audiophile 2496 sound card for SPDIF transfers) and it does everything I need fast enough. I don't really care if it takes 8 minutes vs 3 minutes to compress a show or author a DVD image. You may not want to wait for shows to compress. I just go get a beer.
The DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) is the opposite of your UA5. Your sound card is a DAC. Any soundcard is going to have inexpensive analog section and suffer from noise in your PC chassis. If you instead pipe spdif (or AES/EBU) to an outboard DAC, you can get a really nice DAC for about 800-900 and some damn good ones in the 300-600 range. An outboard DAC is going to have better sound due to isolation and much better power supply. I am a fan of the CAL units but I recommended the Bel Canto because they have very good reviews from other people here and the stock CAL units don't do 24/96. These days, you should get a 24/96 capable unit. Of course, the results you get from something like the Bel Canto will also depend on the quality of the rest of your playback gear.
Again, it depends on what other uses you have for the machine. If you are just doing an audio server/burner/transfer station, I think that you could be happy with a less powerful machine and put the extra money into upgraded playback gear or recording gear. That's just an alternative view.
-
Thanks bud.
+T to you. If you could give me an example of a really good system if you think of it for transferring/burning audio and seeding and trackin and such(all the stuff a taper does)
And a dac, let me know. Thanks again.
ray
-
ray, like maynard says, 500gb of storage is enuf for anyone to fill up, it will take awhile ;)
512MB memory should be fine, but hell, 1GB is almost the new standard soo....up to you there
2.5-3G processing speed is perfect, nice and fast :)
i also like how youre going w/ the dual cdrw/dvdrw ;D
-
something important in an Audio puter is it ought to run cool and quiet and the Athlon64 3000 or 3200 both run cool and you can do a Zahlman heatsink, a low speed,large 92mm case fan,rear mount and perhaps not this case and get low noise. I think an N force 3 mobo uses dual-channel ram, meaning 2 matched sticks,a pair of 512's would be more than enough. Creative Audigy's are only the way if games are important. M-Audio revolution at about $70 New Egg will out do that overpriced Audigy,Turtle Beach Catalina is nice,even less $ Other Cards fom M-audio,Terratec or Egosys under $200 can do some awesome stuff. I would opt for an aluminum case as they shed heat better and cool=quiet,you don't need huge-you got a CD a DVD and HDDs. A fan blowin ot the back is always best-for low noise-the front becomes the intake. Rathher than the giant $375 dollar HDD, get 2 smaller ones. For storage about 250gb is a lot,I'd go SATA and Seagates run a little quiter than most. I'd get a Western Raptor SATA to put the OS or OS's on,and all software. With the music files and software on seprate HD's each one's heads can be active doing there thing rather than needing to jump back and forth between the files and the software. Also if you have a major crash your music stash is safe on a seperate drive. Further I'd use Partition magic to further divide the space-you don't want to defrag a 500gig partition or even a 60gb partition. The Raptor HD runs at 10,000 rpm and it can add a lot to all sorts of performance. I am sure you could get a Raptor and a 250gb SATA storage drive for well under the price of the 500,you probably could even get a USB 2 external of another 80-120 gb
-
Ok, so I have my budget of 1500 for the actual tower part.
What exactly would you build given that budget??
Need part numbers, cost, etc.
Thanks man, and +T to you.and everyone else that helped
Ray
-
Alright Ray, I've looked at your stuff.. Here are my thoughts
PROCESSOR: Go with the 939 not the 754 slot.
SOUND: I'd go with an Audiophile 2496 or something that outputs SPDIF to go into a stereo
RAM: Mushkin is a very reputable brand, good choice (though get two chips, not just one)
HARD DRIVE: Get a few smaller gig drives for RAID instead of one large one
MOTHERBOARD: Asus is a reliable brand, good choice
VIDEO: Chaintech is a reliable brand as well
Here's what I picked when I "went crazy with $1500"
Processor:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-463&depa=1
Motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-128-269&depa=1
Hard Drive(s) (get two or three):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-148-033&depa=1
RAM (get atleast 2)
: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-969&depa=1
CPU Fan:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-118-113&depa=1
Thermal Grease for CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-100-007&depa=1
For a case just choose whatever you think looks cool that fits an ATX motherboard (practically all cases these days).
-
Just built what one might call a HTPC (home theater PC) I was gonna post some pics when I got the cable management looking nicey nice. But I just built a 2.4 P4 Hyper Thread with an INTEL D875PBZ mobo, 512K RAM, Plextor DVD-R 712SA, SiverStone fanless power supply, Silverstone LCO3V Case, Zalman 7000cu Heatsink, ATI All in Wonder 9800 Pro (stock fan removed and replaced w/) zalman ZM80C-HP and ZM-OP1.
I used an 120 GB HDD that i had from another machine but that will get replaced ASAP. The thing is whisper quite and BALLSY.
www.silverstonetek.com
www.zalmanusa.com
If you have any questions feel free to let me know. The silverstone cases are a bit pricey but they are pretty
-
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-498&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-486&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-144-144&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-148-033&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-131-329&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-112-506&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-213&depa=1
This is a 754 AMD but it comes in at about 1300.00 so that leaves roughly 200.00 for the sound card. I splurged on the case a 2HDDs for RAID 1 and 1GB RAm all could be tweaked to bring it in ar a lower price point.
-
Kind that is one dope tower ;D Love that case, very sleek.
I would've gone with the newer winchester core AMD 64 processor but a nice lookin' system!
-
Honestly my experience with AMD is a little limited. I just built an AMD machine but i was very disappointed with the mobo (asus Av880) and just started all over with the Intel.
the AMD machine is fast and I like it but the mobo did NOT get along with my PCI soundcard (know mobo issue) that i found out about after the fact. So i got lazy and decided to build exactly what I wanted instead of trying to work with what I had and ended up with the build I mention a few post up.
the Lian-li stuff is awesome. I really LOVE the silverstone stuff and the 1 i have is very sleek. but spending $ on a case isnt something everyone is willing to do. I wouldnt have done it myself it it wasn't gonna get added to my playback system. the Zalman case is SOOOOOOOO sweet but HUGE $ for a case.
-
Alright Ray, I've looked at your stuff.. Here are my thoughts
PROCESSOR: Go with the 939 not the 754 slot.
Why go with a 64bit processor? When you're running a 32bit OS (Windows XP) and 32bit applications, the performance gain is like 5% for a large increase in price until OS's go 64bit. (you pay more for a motherboard that can use them too). Personally, I would put that money into more RAM (max out at 2GB!!) as opposed to a 64bit processor that can't be fully utilized yet. When paying for performance, you get the most bang for your buck by investing in RAM.
Also, beware expensive heatsinks (like thermaltakes...) - they may cool better, but many of them make your computer sound like a jet taking off. If you can buy your CPU retail so it comes with an approved heatsink, they are much easier to live with.
The biggest performance bottlenecks I've found for mastering large audio files come from disk access. The faster your PC can read/write data, the faster it will resample, normalize, dither etc. SATA is a good investment. Not only does it have better throughput ceiling for data, but it also has smaller cables which allow cooling inside your case to be more efficient.
-
my take on this is about the same as other .
Scrap the 64 bit CPU . IMO just a waste of money as of now. XP 64 is long ways from consumer use yet
I would only change a few things in your Line up .
One being the case . I have this one and love it. the clips and the side access HD bays are very nice aswell , and the Case stays VERY cool.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=11-129-127&DEPA=0
Next the CPU. this will be more than sufficient
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-184&depa=1
Now on the Point of SATA for mastering your shows. as someone else stated Read the Access times. Most of the SATA drives are still around the 8.5s mark .
This would be much Better IMO for using as the mastering drive .
I know its only 74gb but your not going to use this drive for storage only to run SF or wavelab on . trust me its a rocket..
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=22-144-160&DEPA=1
Then a couple of these bad boys in a RAID config. Seagate are the quietest drives you can Buy. and try to find another Manufacturer with a 5 year warranty
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-148-032&depa=1
last thing is dont skimp on the thermal grease
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-100-007&depa=1
-
The Athlon64 3000 Winchester core can outpower the top P4-while running cooler and quieter than even an old 1ghz Celeron-the 939 socket opens the door to the Nforce 4 chipset which,on various mobos introduces a bunch of breakthrough tech stuff that has been talked about but until very recent could not be obtained. A lot of this stuff like SATA II and PCIe will be the future standard. If I put $1500 in a puter I want it to still be the real deal in 2010. The Athlon64's have special features in that they can be set to basically underclock themselves when full power is not needed,which means cooler-quieter.It is quite true that an XP1800 would have no trouble running audio apps-and while the 13micron XP1800 runs reasonably cool-the new Winchester 9 micron cpus run even cooler and quieter and minimal background noise is why I recommend it more than its power
-
i'm another big fan of the athlon64.
just put together a new pc with a athlon64 3500, msi K8N neo2 platinum motherboard and wd raptor 74gb. housed in wavemaster case.
take a look at the anandtech guides. here's the mid-range guide
http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2250
haven't used the new pc for audio however. for that i use a mac g5....
-
Alright Ray, I've looked at your stuff.. Here are my thoughts
PROCESSOR: Go with the 939 not the 754 slot.
Why go with a 64bit processor? When you're running a 32bit OS (Windows XP) and 32bit applications, the performance gain is like 5% for a large increase in price until OS's go 64bit.
Some of this spiel below comes from what I learned in a comp. architecture class, at the time I believe we were dealing with the Opteron core and as such some numbers may be out of date.
With a 64 bit processor you can in theory have more than twice as many registers on board (might now be quadruple). Along with doubling the general purpose registers it has an additional eight dedicated 64 bit GPR's and eight additional SSE2 registers. You get true 64 bit memory addressing, no more slow paging scheme Physical Address Extensions that come with 32bit architecture after the 4gig limit is met. AMD uses a 64 bit flat addressing scheme that can hold 256 terabytes of addresses without the need for paging. It has more than twice as many SIMD (single instruction multiple data) SSE2 addresses than a 32 bit chip. The ALU is faster with newer algorithms and much larger registers, floating point calculations (the hardest/slowest thing for a chip to do) are faster and can be more accurate. Better branch prediction and more effecient "hyperthreading" technology then Pentiums allow AMD's to perform faster then higher clockrate (ghz/mhz) Pentium 4's.
You are correct in the assumption that 32 bit OS and 32 bit applications are still only going to use the eight registers they used to have on a 32 bit machine. However, they could be recompiled in order to take advantage of the new architecture. Even without this added benefit of older applications running faster wouldn't you rather have a system which is ready for the future? If I were spending the money today I would buy a 64 bit processor and know for a fact that in a years time it will be much more current then any of the 32 bit processors around..
-
The Athlon64 3000 Winchester....the 939 socket opens the door to the Nforce 4 chipset...A lot of this stuff like SATA II and PCIe will be the future standard. If I put $1500 in a puter I want it to still be the real deal in 2010.
Word. Rerem says the truth... I sent Ray an e-mail with my suggestions last week on a $1500 system and it included both a Winchester core processor and a board with nforce4 and SATA2/PCIe. Glad to know that others were thinking the same...
-
Thanks yall!!!
ray +T