Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: grider on May 22, 2005, 04:40:45 PM
-
can anyone steer me to some info on mic'ing a grand piano for recording purposes, or if its simple just explain it to me, I have a modest offer to make a paid recording for an area pianist, just him and his piano, thanks, Grider
-
is it an upright or a grand? A mic'ed an upright recently - there wasn't much room inside so I took two sony ecm (i do not remember the exact model) lav mics (cardioids) clipped them on a piece of cardboard (dina pickup), taped that to the inside of the lid, so the mics pointed down, and ran the cables to my mixer. Worked great! A stereo pair should work well on a grand - google search for best placement - also, my friend used to put pzm mics on uprights and grands with good results - good luck :)
-
there was just a thread on this within the last 4-6 weeks, seemed like some of the engineers chimed in with really good advice... definitely worth a search
-
there was just a thread on this within the last 4-6 weeks, seemed like some of the engineers chimed in with really good advice... definitely worth a search
yep.....and i even searched for you too :)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=42055.0
I also recently(last week) had great success with critically position cardioids over certain sound holes. used two different kind of microphones as well. we chose this because we were at "half-stick" with a blanket over it to reduce leakeage as much as possible. when you have a grand piano at "full-stick" it's split omnis or ORTF cardioids all the way.
edit: this config really brought the piano upfront but still had a very musical and warm sound. It also really cut down on the hammer noise and pedal buldges. It's going to be really easy for me to mix this piano for the jazz record I'm working on. gotta love neumann's ;D
good luck!
-
I recorded a solo grand pano back in the fall by clamping ORTF right in the middle of the strings about 12" above the strings. Came out beautifully, but definitely picked up some pedal noise.
-
very useful advice gentlemen, thanks, it will be a nice grand piano and nothing else; the pianist is the director of the music department of a large university; met him following a jazz gig; I asked him after the show if he would like copies of the show, we began talking, one thing led to another and he made the offer to pay me to record, sweet
-
Is there really a right way to do this crap?? :screams:
I just finished recording a 45 minute piano and organ concerto, twice in the last two days. The same room, same players.
Yesterday, I did the typical omnis about 5' back from the open lid, with baffled omnis.
Result: master pianist crinkles nose, and says too much piano overpowering the organ.
Its not a bad recording, maybe slightly bright.
I had zero sound check, as they were late, and we had an hour to record a 45 minute concerto.
Today,.... because it was live, and there was an orchestra and choir for other songs, I had to go out into the audience, in front of first row, roughly stagelip.
Because of the organs interconnects limitations to its sound source, the organ was stage right and the piano stage left. This put the backside of the piano lid top facing the audience, and the open box/lid facing into the choir sound dome, opposite of the audience.
Bottomline,....
I was set up outside the stage, and running 17cm 70º and about 10' from the back/top of the lid of the piano, totally opposite of where I should have ideally been.
Result,... Master pianist loved the sound, because it wasn't as sharp in the upper registers, and produced a more mellow tone.
??? wtf?
Maybe we should be like George Costanza, and do everything exactly opposite of what the book says we should do?
This is the second time that I've recorded from the wrong side of a piano, and had the artist really like it,.....
??? wtf?
fat fingers edit
it's possible your DPA's are too transparant for that particular piano that close up. in your second position you were able to get more sound reflected from the lid and stage which yielded a warmer tone and most likely a better balance of organ and piano. I've always loved the neumann sound on piano. Some engineers swear by the schoeps mk4's, although I haven't had the chance to use mine yet.
and in answer to your first question...yes....there are right ways to miking a piano. It's been my experience, though, that there are more wrong ways ;). I was clueless on miking a piano and getting a good sound until I picked the brain of one of my teachers about different situations. Now i'm finally getting more confident when miking a piano. Such a beautiful instrument to record. The great grand pianos have such range!
-
every time I hit record i think to myself, "man I hope i don't blow it!" ;D
that's the best part about recording. you are always learning form experience.
I can only imagine trying to pick up a good balance of a huge church organ and and grand piano is difficult to say the least.
-
well, you are a moderator.....it's ok ;) :P
thanks for the pictures.....it helps give me perspective.
anyways....ooofffff.....long, narrow, and tile floors :-X those are adverse conditions. at least the performers are happy with the concert recording....cause that's what mattered right?
was that the piano they used? I assumed it was a grand.
-
very cool....ok ......[/hijack] :)
-
very useful advice gentlemen, thanks, it will be a nice grand piano and nothing else; the pianist is the director of the music department of a large university; met him following a jazz gig; I asked him after the show if he would like copies of the show, we began talking, one thing led to another and he made the offer to pay me to record, sweet
that university wouldn't happen to be IU would it?
-
derps....so much for this being in the archive :D
way to go m0k3....it's all your fault :P
-
very useful advice gentlemen, thanks, it will be a nice grand piano and nothing else; the pianist is the director of the music department of a large university; met him following a jazz gig; I asked him after the show if he would like copies of the show, we began talking, one thing led to another and he made the offer to pay me to record, sweet
that university wouldn't happen to be IU would it?
no, Indiana Unversity has a kick ass music school and I'm not "that" good of a taper, believe me
-
though they were sort of the Mayberry version of a requiem choir,.
did they do it barbershop style or bluegrass? ;)
(http://www.leroymack.com/images/splash_r2_c1.jpg)
-
very useful advice gentlemen, thanks, it will be a nice grand piano and nothing else; the pianist is the director of the music department of a large university; met him following a jazz gig; I asked him after the show if he would like copies of the show, we began talking, one thing led to another and he made the offer to pay me to record, sweet
that university wouldn't happen to be IU would it?
no, Indiana Unversity has a kick ass music school and I'm not "that" good of a taper, believe me
I know they have some pretty impressive people in that department, just curious
-
derps....so much for this being in the archive :D
way to go m0k3....it's all your fault :P
purely evil highjacking specialist is I! ;D
I get the notion that maybe this thread was meant to go here in the first place, and someone with moving capabiliteis didn't realize that they stuck it down in the archive,.... until we highjacked it! :P
;D true
[on topic 8) ]
So how would you guys mike an upright piano? I think I would treat it like drum over heads and use two small diaphragm cardioid condensers spaced. but hell why not try split omnis too!
or you could just go crazy with split omnis up close, an ORTF pair 6 feet in front of it, and another pair of omnis in the back for ambience ;D
-
if you're supplying the mics ;D
-
it can most definitely be arranged 8)
mod-u87's? km130's? 140s? mk4's? a pair of 57s? :D
access baby!
-
so I finalized this taping opportunity last night; he will be playing traditional jazz numbers, on what he he described as a "very nice Baldwin grand piano" which he is having professionally tuned this week, the gig will take place a week or so from now; I plan to do a comp recording first for mic placement, and let him select the mic placement; then I will do another comp with perhaps ORTF, DIN, and XY, and again let him select the sounds he prefers; I'm charging him $100 an hour; after we have everything set up I told him I just wanted to get out of the way, and roll tape, and let him create his art unencumbered by any distractions whatsoever; I saw him play for a couple of hours on saturday and his style is very precise and exacting so this should be big fun
-
sounds like fun!
-
nothing like highjacking an archive thread ;)
Haven't seen the inside of a church since I was 13 ::)
Kinda scary ;D
+Ts all around for the mic'ing tips
FWIW, if it's just a pianer, I'd mic it split omnis at about 5-10 feet w/ split 1/3 of the distance.