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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Brian Skalinder on May 25, 2005, 11:26:58 AM
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I find myself running my 414s coincident ALL the time, largely because omnis won't fit most of my recording situations (crowd's too chatty, not close enough to sound source, etc.). But I really love the rich, smooth LD sound and particularly the 414s XY or Blumlein. So...I'm considering switching over to a LD single point stereo mic.
Requirements:
- at least card / hyper / figure-8 (do not require controller box for truly variable pattern selection, though I'm open to a mic that has one)
- config must support XY (variable angle), M-S (doesn't need to have a decoding function), Blumlein
- < $2k
What are my options? A few I've seen mentioned before:
- AKG C24 - not readily available? too expensive?
- AKG C422 - not readily available? too expensive?
- AKG C426B - available new, but too expensive
- Soundfield ST250 - too expensive
- Studio Projects LSD2 - solid pricing, solid sound
As far as availability / pricing goes, the LSD2 looks like the clear winner, though I'd love to stick with AKG if they're available and within my price range. I've Googled a bit and not found any useful information re used pricing on the C422 or C24. Hmmmmm...time to d/l some LSD2 samples...
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I think that the LSD2 is your best bet but those AKG's are sweet if you can find one....
the little exposure I've had to the LSD2 has left me with a very favorable impression
fwiw - dnsacks runs lsd2->tmod+
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Not on your list (http://www.manleylabs.com/BIGPIXPAGES/REFSTEREOGOLDpic.html)
Gorgeous mic, but mebbe a little out of my price range.
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others
Shure VP88 - cheap used, ??sounds good?? (i've seen a few in action but never heard a source
don't meet requirements but included since they are stereo mics incase others are curious
AT 825 - card/XY only
Rhode NT4 - card/XY only
Sanken CUW-180 - card/XY adjustable
Sanken CMS-2 - MS only
I think the LSD2 is probably the best option for the money unless you run across an older AKG that you can send off to Jim Williams for a tuneup.
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others
Shure VP88 - cheap used, ??sounds good?? (i've seen a few in action but never heard a source
don't meet requirements but included since they are stereo mics incase others are curious
AT 825 - card/XY only
Rhode NT4 - card/XY only
Sanken CUW-180 - card/XY adjustable
Sanken CMS-2 - MS only
I think the LSD2 is probably the best option for the money unless you run across an older AKG that you can send off to Jim Williams for a tuneup.
There's a guy out in L.A. that runs Shure VP88>V3>DAP1. I've got quite a few Marc Ford shows he taped, and they all sound magnificent.
Definitely one to look at...
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I love my LSD2. I occationally get that upgrade bug, but that's usually cured by making another great recording with what I have. Search bt.etree, a friend of mine is constantly seeding my recordings there. Not many up on LMA, but a few. Some of my best that haven't made it up yet are WSP 4/16 & 17/05. The MMW 3/18/05 that's still running on bt.etree is quite good, too. Pull the 24bit's if you can. Just did a blumlein on-stage for a jazz quartet a week ago that is pretty mind blowing, but unless you want to wait you'd have to b&p me for that one, it probably won't be up on LMA for weeks.
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Neumann also makes a stereo mic, the RSM 191. not sure of the details of the mic, but I have a couple of Phish shows (new years '93 run) that sound great.
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Neumann also makes a stereo mic, the RSM 191. not sure of the details of the mic, but I have a couple of Phish shows (new years '93 run) that sound great.
Kevin Shapiro used to run that mic in 90 and 91
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sm69 is another neumann candidate. although i believe it is also over 2k.
save up your money, find two vintage c12k capsules in excellent condition, and have scott hampton build you a custom dual capsule tube powered gem ;D
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The RSM 191 is a stereo microphone system consisting of the microphone and the MTX 191 A matrix amplifier. It has an adjustable pick-up angle and high directivity. The microphone has two separate capsule systems, a hypercardioid element and a figure-8, both in a short shotgun. Together they generate the mid and the side signals.
The matrix amplifier controls the width of the stereo image by changing the gain of the side signal relative to the middle signal in six 3 dB steps. The output signals of the matrix amplifier are either mid-side (MS) or left/right (XY). The signals are converted through transformerless sum-and-difference circuitry.
The balanced, transformerless technology permits the use of long cables between the microphone, the matrix amplifier and the following mic input of other signal processing equipment.
interesting
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sm69 is another neumann candidate. although i believe it is also over 2k.
save up your money, find two vintage c12k capsules in excellent condition, and have scott hampton build you a custom dual capsule tube powered gem ;D
that would be what about 20- 30 grand?
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sm69 is another neumann candidate. although i believe it is also over 2k.
save up your money, find two vintage c12k capsules in excellent condition, and have scott hampton build you a custom dual capsule tube powered gem ;D
that would be what about 20- 30 grand?
i'm not sure. But I am sure that Scott Hampton could give you an estimation. An engineer I know is actually getting scott to build a pair of LD's that contain the vintage c12k capsule. not sure if it is tube or not though. Scott has been working on it for about a year now. He won't send it to the engineer I know until it is perfect and meets scott's standards. I'm not sure how much it costs, but if it's anywhere near 20-30 large....that's pretty rediculous IMO.
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I love my LSD2, but it is card/omni/8. No hypers. Definately hard to beat for the price.
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=25104 Sam Kininger Band Blumlien 6ft off stage.
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=25563 Garaj Mahal Cards on stage
JAson
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On an LSD2, running m/s mode with mostly mid will simulate hypers pretty nicely.
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Thanks for the tips, everyone!
On an LSD2, running m/s mode with mostly mid will simulate hypers pretty nicely.
True enough, very good point.
I love my LSD2, but it is card/omni/8. No hypers. Definately hard to beat for the price.
Ahhh...didn't realize no hypers. S'alright...I can live without the hypers. I think I'm gonna sniff about for an AKG C422 (never know, I might get lucky) for a while and then eventually pull the trigger on the LSD2 if I don't find a 422.
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I think that the LSD2 is your best bet but those AKG's are sweet if you can find one....
the little exposure I've had to the LSD2 has left me with a very favorable impression
fwiw - dnsacks runs lsd2->tmod+
I do as well, a t-mod FR-2 I like it with the LSD2 and the AT ES943s.
Want a disc or two to blow through yer ears ?
[EDIT] I can upload a few FLACs 24/96 or 16/44.1 of a really cool acoustic trio just off the box today using LSD2
Check your PMs for a hyper link to some MP3s of SCI/RRE from 11/27/04
BTW, I doubt that you could get the hyper localization from a tight M-S large diagphram configuration.
You'd still get alot of the room even from the front (M) cardiod mic.
What you don't get with the LDs is that hyper "phasey-ness" that sometimes shows up in a concert hall.
I'd rather have the "natural" audience noise than the phase distortions, YMMV.
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I have used a Shure VP88 before. They are reasonably price used...
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I have used a Shure VP88 before. They are reasonably price used...
Does the VP88 do X-Y ? If so does it have a hyper setting ?
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Does the VP88 do X-Y ? If so does it have a hyper setting ?
Shure VP88 doesn't fit my needs - it runs strictly M-S (card/figure-8) with no option for other configs, i.e. Blumlein or XY (though one could approximate XY via M-S), and rolls off a bit much for my tastes starting at ~100Hz:
(http://www.shure.com/images/response/fVP88_large.gif)
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there is a guy in sweden selling his pearl tl44 for a very nice price.
i can ask for details if you want to.
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im sure its a long shot, but does gefell make what you are looking for in your price range?
http://www.microtechgefell.de/eng/home.htm
No, no they do not.
You can stack 930s for sweet multi-channel X-Y or run a fairly large array ORTF.
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If I was in the market today for mic's, the LSD2 would be at the top of my list. It has a very reasonable price, nice sound, nice construction. The 426 is a fantastic mic, but that price....
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As far as availability / pricing goes, the LSD2 looks like the clear winner, though I'd love to stick with AKG if they're available and within my price range. I've Googled a bit and not found any useful information re used pricing on the C422 or C24. Hmmmmm...time to d/l some LSD2 samples...
Just a heads up:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=42973.msg553468#msg553468
Oade.com has a few comp samples of the LSD2 up, they might help. http://oade.com/Tapers_Section/rig_list.html
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some recent Hot Buttered Rum String Band with the LSD2>V3...
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=14588
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=14587
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there is a guy in sweden selling his pearl tl44 for a very nice price.
i can ask for details if you want to.
Thanks, Muj, but I think I'll pass - seems the TL44 is 2 fixed-pattern cardioids that uses a controller box to adjust the pickup pattern across omni / cardioid / figure-8. I think that means I can't run Blumlein, but rather only a single figure-8 (by adjusting the controller box to create a single figure-8 pattern from the 2 fixed-pattern cardioid membranes):
A variety of polar patterns may be obtained by bringing the output of each membrane into separate mixer channels. In effect they provides two discrete cardioid outputs which may be used simultaneously or independently one of the other to obtain cardioid, omni, figure of eight, 180 degrees coincident stereo and virtually any pattern in between by use of the mixing console.
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what does that mic cost new..?
As far as availability / pricing goes, the LSD2 looks like the clear winner, though I'd love to stick with AKG if they're available and within my price range. I've Googled a bit and not found any useful information re used pricing on the C422 or C24. Hmmmmm...time to d/l some LSD2 samples...
Just a heads up:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=42973.msg553468#msg553468
Oade.com has a few comp samples of the LSD2 up, they might help. http://oade.com/Tapers_Section/rig_list.html
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what does that mic cost new..?
I believe its about $800 street.
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Brian...
your best bet, according to your budget and tastes...would be the c422. Its two 414 capsules, after all. How can you go wrong?
the one thing I liked about the 414s over the 422 is the ability to run the omnis. but if I had to choose, 422 all the way.
post an ISO on rec.audio.pro, and i bet you'll find one. You can get them around $15-800 used, with some search time.
last time I looked for one (for carl), I found several, as well as a c34.
fwiw, I prefer the sound of the 422 over the c34. the 34 is a little grating in the high-frequencies, imo.
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You can't go wrong with any of the AKG stereo mics, now if you could only find a C24 in your price range I would trade you a new 426 for it ;)