Hey we go with Part II of the M-Audio MicroTrack discussion. There has been alot of information leaking out the last two weeks of July and there has been alot of speculation up until this point.
Here is what we know so far as FACT:
Dimensions:
2.25" X 4.13" X 1.13" -> 57.2 x 104.9 x 28.7 mm
Media:
The MicroTrack will be able to use BOTH CompactFlash cards as well as Microdrives
Power:
5v - Internal Battery with an expected run time of 4-8 hours depending on which features you are using.
External Power will be via the USB port
Price: MSR $599 Looks like street price will be $399 with several dealers attempting to undercut that. Lowest current price (as of 7.25.05) seems to be $369
Arrival date:
Several folks have been told end of August but so far this is still heresay. No official date has been given.
MicroTrack Homepage - English
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack-main.html
MicroTrack Homepage - German (updated pics below)
http://www.m-audio.de/microtrack.htm
The latest pics as of 7.28.05
(http://www.m-audio.de/us/MicroTrack-side-R.jpg)
(http://www.m-audio.de/us/MicroTrack-bottom.jpg)
(http://www.m-audio.de/us/MicroTrack-topmod.jpg)
(http://www.m-audio.de/us/MicroTrack-side-L.jpg)
If anyone has any details regarding dealers and the prices please post them so we can have a better picture of price as I am sure we all want a great deal.
Here is the link for the first part of this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=45556.0
Credit for all this info goes to too many people from the first thread for the recorder. You know who you are so +T to as many of you as I can click on.
Looking forward to the coming weeks. ;D
Quote from: thegreatgumbino on July 28, 2005, 12:05:27 PM
Looking forward to the coming weeks. ;D
ditto! need to order a 4GB card!
can we lock the first thread to stop others from posting it. honestly, i can't keep up with all these threads, lets try to keep this stuff as organized as possible since a lot of it is good information.
where's the chart with the cf record times. ie: a 4g card at 24/96 will record for ???. I know it's here somewhere. thanks.
Quote from: ts on July 28, 2005, 12:55:16 PM
where's the chart with the cf record times. ie: a 4g card at 24/96 will record for ???. I know it's here somewhere. thanks.
http://24bit.turtleside.com/pcm.wav.file.sizes.pdf
8)
Quote from: ts on July 28, 2005, 12:55:16 PM
where's the chart with the cf record times. ie: a 4g card at 24/96 will record for ???. I know it's here somewhere. thanks.
The chart is cool, but it's easier to remember:
24/48 = one gig an hour
24/96 = two gigs an hour
24/192 = four gigs an hour
;)
plus you don't have to worry about the run time if you use the ua5, unless you tape 8+ hours.
Why?
i'd think 3 hours of phantom should be plenty for most stealth shows too...
I have tickets for several performances this upcoming season lasting from 3 to six hours.
Noam
Because with the battery that oade provides or the energizer battery, you can get this much time with it.
please dont use that burnin red font for letters. headache.
Quote from: John Kelly on July 28, 2005, 12:59:42 PM
Quote from: ts on July 28, 2005, 12:55:16 PM
where's the chart with the cf record times. ie: a 4g card at 24/96 will record for ???. I know it's here somewhere. thanks.
The chart is cool, but it's easier to remember:
24/48 = one gig an hour
24/96 = two gigs an hour
24/192 = four gigs an hour
;)
cool. thank-you. so, for a regular 2 set show, 3-4 hours in total length, 1 1/2 hour first set and 2 hour 2nd set, it would be a good idea to have 2 4gb cards for 24/96, no? And if the 2nd set goes over 2 hours, should be some room left on the 1st set card, for encores etc. I've been following these threads but haven't chimed in till now. Definitely picking up one of these!
Might be better to just have one 8 gig card and be done with it. ;)
I picked up a 4 gig because the shows I go to hardly ever run over 2 hours. And for ones that I know will I have no problems running at 24/48 for the time being.
Quote from: Crumbo on July 28, 2005, 12:57:16 PM
Quote from: ts on July 28, 2005, 12:55:16 PM
where's the chart with the cf record times. ie: a 4g card at 24/96 will record for ???. I know it's here somewhere. thanks.
http://24bit.turtleside.com/pcm.wav.file.sizes.pdf
Quote from: John Kelly on July 28, 2005, 12:59:42 PM
Quote from: ts on July 28, 2005, 12:55:16 PM
where's the chart with the cf record times. ie: a 4g card at 24/96 will record for ???. I know it's here somewhere. thanks.
The chart is cool, but it's easier to remember:
24/48 = one gig an hour
24/96 = two gigs an hour
24/192 = four gigs an hour
I like the "easy to remember" short-hand you have, so I updated my PDF chart to include a "short-hand". take a look at the PDF now ;)
http://24bit.turtleside.com/pcm.wav.file.sizes.pdf
Quote from: ts on July 28, 2005, 12:55:16 PM
where's the chart with the cf record times. ie: a 4g card at 24/96 will record for ???. I know it's here somewhere. thanks.
`channels times bytes per sample times samplespersecond` gives the datarate per second..
Quote from: John Kelly on July 28, 2005, 01:24:07 PM
Might be better to just have one 8 gig card and be done with it. ;)
I picked up a 4 gig because the shows I go to hardly ever run over 2 hours. And for ones that I know will I have no problems running at 24/48 for the time being.
or 16/44.1 ;D
Hey I just hit a 1000 posts for my fourth star. My I feel so important now 8)
What is the L/M/H button on the side?
low/medium/high? backlight control????
At first I thought maybe line/mic/? but I couldn't come up with the "h".
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on July 28, 2005, 04:28:48 PM
low/medium/high? backlight control????
At first I thought maybe line/mic/? but I couldn't come up with the "h".
low mid high pass filter. :P
I'm guessing mic sensitivity - Low/Medium/High.
EDIT: Maybe it's a selector switch for line/mic/headphones?
For those of you who havent picked up a CF card yet and your not to anti Ebay yet I've pulled a couple nice prices out of there this week. I scored a new in package SanDisk 4gb x80 card for $175 and a Hitachi 4gb microdrive (out of package but new) for $113.
Brad
The M-Audio site has:
"Recharge the battery by simply connecting MicroTrack to a PC or Mac via USB, or using an optional power supply."
In the pictures I don't see anywhere other than the USB connector where an optional power supply could plug in. I wonder if that's only for recharging or whether you can run the MicroTrack from something like the PowerAll lithium battery with a USB terminator.
Jeff
Quote from: WiFiJeff on July 28, 2005, 05:22:05 PM
The M-Audio site has:
"Recharge the battery by simply connecting MicroTrack to a PC or Mac via USB, or using an optional power supply."
In the pictures I don't see anywhere other than the USB connector where an optional power supply could plug in. I wonder if that's only for recharging or whether you can run the MicroTrack from something like the PowerAll lithium battery with a USB terminator.
Jeff
USB Power adapter- It must be a charger with a USB tip.
Quote from: greenone on July 28, 2005, 04:30:08 PM
I'm guessing mic sensitivity - Low/Medium/High.
EDIT: Maybe it's a selector switch for line/mic/headphones?
i was thinking EXACTLY both of those
Quote from: coloartist on July 28, 2005, 06:31:08 PM
Quote from: WiFiJeff on July 28, 2005, 05:22:05 PM
The M-Audio site has:
"Recharge the battery by simply connecting MicroTrack to a PC or Mac via USB, or using an optional power supply."
In the pictures I don't see anywhere other than the USB connector where an optional power supply could plug in. I wonder if that's only for recharging or whether you can run the MicroTrack from something like the PowerAll lithium battery with a USB terminator.
Jeff
USB Power adapter- It must be a charger with a USB tip.
thats the same thing archos uses, gotta be what it is.....
Can you easily get to the internal battery for possible replacement in the field?
Quote from: Steelcorner27 on July 28, 2005, 05:12:51 PM
For those of you who havent picked up a CF card yet and your not to anti Ebay yet I've pulled a couple nice prices out of there this week. I scored a new in package SanDisk 4gb x80 card for $175 and a Hitachi 4gb microdrive (out of package but new) for $113.
Brad
So what's better, cf card or microdrive? What about write speeds on cf cards? Is the cheapest one OK? Sandisk Ultra II's and Lexar Pro's are over 400. I found a Seagate 5gb cf for 249. http://www.memorysuppliers.com/se5gbst1mico.html.
Quote from: ts on July 29, 2005, 07:57:47 AM
Quote from: Steelcorner27 on July 28, 2005, 05:12:51 PM
For those of you who havent picked up a CF card yet and your not to anti Ebay yet I've pulled a couple nice prices out of there this week. I scored a new in package SanDisk 4gb x80 card for $175 and a Hitachi 4gb microdrive (out of package but new) for $113.
Brad
So what's better, cf card or microdrive? What about write speeds on cf cards? Is the cheapest one OK? Sandisk Ultra II's and Lexar Pro's are over 400. I found a Seagate 5gb cf for 249. http://www.memorysuppliers.com/se5gbst1mico.html.
Compact Flash cards are much better than microdrives. The whole reason I'm buying the microtrack is to move to solid state media where there are virtually no heat or vibration issues that exist with hard disc recorders. Using a microdrive in the Microtrack would bring up all of those issues.
The Seagate card you linked to is a microdrive, btw (at least, the pictured item is).
Quote from: John Kelly on July 29, 2005, 08:13:44 AM
Quote from: ts on July 29, 2005, 07:57:47 AM
Quote from: Steelcorner27 on July 28, 2005, 05:12:51 PM
For those of you who havent picked up a CF card yet and your not to anti Ebay yet I've pulled a couple nice prices out of there this week. I scored a new in package SanDisk 4gb x80 card for $175 and a Hitachi 4gb microdrive (out of package but new) for $113.
Brad
So what's better, cf card or microdrive? What about write speeds on cf cards? Is the cheapest one OK? Sandisk Ultra II's and Lexar Pro's are over 400. I found a Seagate 5gb cf for 249. http://www.memorysuppliers.com/se5gbst1mico.html.
Compact Flash cards are much better than microdrives. The whole reason I'm buying the microtrack is to move to solid state media where there are virtually no heat or vibration issues that exist with hard disc recorders. Using a microdrive in the Microtrack would bring up all of those issues.
The Seagate card you linked to is a microdrive, btw (at least, the pictured item is).
Ya go CF card all the way i only bought the microdrive as a backup and it was cheep infact I saw a 6gb micodrive go for $169 on ebay last night.
Brad
Quote from: John Kelly on July 29, 2005, 08:13:44 AM
Quote from: ts on July 29, 2005, 07:57:47 AM
Quote from: Steelcorner27 on July 28, 2005, 05:12:51 PM
For those of you who havent picked up a CF card yet and your not to anti Ebay yet I've pulled a couple nice prices out of there this week. I scored a new in package SanDisk 4gb x80 card for $175 and a Hitachi 4gb microdrive (out of package but new) for $113.
Brad
So what's better, cf card or microdrive? What about write speeds on cf cards? Is the cheapest one OK? Sandisk Ultra II's and Lexar Pro's are over 400. I found a Seagate 5gb cf for 249. http://www.memorysuppliers.com/se5gbst1mico.html.
Compact Flash cards are much better than microdrives. The whole reason I'm buying the microtrack is to move to solid state media where there are virtually no heat or vibration issues that exist with hard disc recorders. Using a microdrive in the Microtrack would bring up all of those issues.
The Seagate card you linked to is a microdrive, btw (at least, the pictured item is).
I see that now. 5gbmd. Oh well. So what type of cf card? Does it have to be the 2 I mention above? The 400+ dollar ones. Or one of the cheaper ones. Thanks.
the only question that i have is, what happpends after 2 gigs, does it create a new file, if not the you are fucked. wavelab can't open more than 2 gigs
jon
Quote from: jmerin on July 29, 2005, 08:58:02 AM
the only question that i have is, what happpends after 2 gigs, does it create a new file, if not the you are fucked. wavelab can't open more than 2 gigs
jon
according to the way it reads so far you have to stop and start a new file every time you hit the 2 Gb barrier. They stated to someone that they would be working on a firmware upgrade to potentially fix that, but definitely not out of the box
Quote from: Tenn Man on July 28, 2005, 04:20:54 PM
What is the L/M/H button on the side?
Low/Medium/High Gain
Quote from: sonicsoundiii on July 29, 2005, 07:34:05 AM
Can you easily get to the internal battery for possible replacement in the field?
There is no easy way to replace the battery in the field. There are no screws on the back panel, just solid plastic. As mentioned earlier, the usb port is the way to power for extended use.
The knob next to the cf/micro drive slot is the "joy stick" if you will, that toggles through the menu option.
It weighs about as much as a cell phone, maybe less.
Quote from: jmerin on July 29, 2005, 08:58:02 AM
the only question that i have is, what happpends after 2 gigs, does it create a new file, if not the you are fucked. wavelab can't open more than 2 gigs
jon
CD Wave opens files larger than 2gb for me...
thanks for the info william. a question. are those red and green indicators on the front paint, or lights?
Quote from: jmerin on July 29, 2005, 08:58:02 AM
the only question that i have is, what happpends after 2 gigs, does it create a new file, if not the you are fucked. wavelab can't open more than 2 gigs
jon
Good thing Spark can. ;)
Quote from: John Kelly on July 29, 2005, 09:29:31 AM
Quote from: jmerin on July 29, 2005, 08:58:02 AM
the only question that i have is, what happpends after 2 gigs, does it create a new file, if not the you are fucked. wavelab can't open more than 2 gigs
jon
Good thing Spark can. ;)
What about doing an arbitrary division using shntool's split command, THEN opening the files in Wavelab?
Quote from: John Kelly on July 29, 2005, 08:13:44 AM
Quote from: ts on July 29, 2005, 07:57:47 AM
Quote from: Steelcorner27 on July 28, 2005, 05:12:51 PM
For those of you who havent picked up a CF card yet and your not to anti Ebay yet I've pulled a couple nice prices out of there this week. I scored a new in package SanDisk 4gb x80 card for $175 and a Hitachi 4gb microdrive (out of package but new) for $113.
Brad
So what's better, cf card or microdrive? What about write speeds on cf cards? Is the cheapest one OK? Sandisk Ultra II's and Lexar Pro's are over 400. I found a Seagate 5gb cf for 249. http://www.memorysuppliers.com/se5gbst1mico.html.
Compact Flash cards are much better than microdrives. The whole reason I'm buying the microtrack is to move to solid state media where there are virtually no heat or vibration issues that exist with hard disc recorders. Using a microdrive in the Microtrack would bring up all of those issues.
The Seagate card you linked to is a microdrive, btw (at least, the pictured item is).
Also, the CF card should have a lower power consumption on the battery than the microdrive.
I would suggest buying the largest card you can because it will be a more efficient use of the memory. If you switch cards at a show, then you will most likely be leaving behind empty space on the first card.
Quote from: ts on July 29, 2005, 08:31:36 AM
Quote from: John Kelly on July 29, 2005, 08:13:44 AM
Quote from: ts on July 29, 2005, 07:57:47 AM
Quote from: Steelcorner27 on July 28, 2005, 05:12:51 PM
For those of you who havent picked up a CF card yet and your not to anti Ebay yet I've pulled a couple nice prices out of there this week. I scored a new in package SanDisk 4gb x80 card for $175 and a Hitachi 4gb microdrive (out of package but new) for $113.
Brad
So what's better, cf card or microdrive? What about write speeds on cf cards? Is the cheapest one OK? Sandisk Ultra II's and Lexar Pro's are over 400. I found a Seagate 5gb cf for 249. http://www.memorysuppliers.com/se5gbst1mico.html.
Compact Flash cards are much better than microdrives. The whole reason I'm buying the microtrack is to move to solid state media where there are virtually no heat or vibration issues that exist with hard disc recorders. Using a microdrive in the Microtrack would bring up all of those issues.
The Seagate card you linked to is a microdrive, btw (at least, the pictured item is).
I see that now. 5gbmd. Oh well. So what type of cf card? Does it have to be the 2 I mention above? The 400+ dollar ones. Or one of the cheaper ones. Thanks.
For recording audio the SanDisk type I CF card is enough even if you want to record in 24/96 modus. However the Ultra II CF card will give you slightly higher transfer speeds when using USB 2.0.
I know this has already been covered in the 1st topic of this. but as I have seen the inputs and I see a mic in. so we do not have a line in on this thing? I know there are two connectors for L/R mic inputs. I am guessing that is Line In? I tired reading all of the first thread and I saw that there was going to be a Line In on this recorder? how would I convert it to use my DPA 4061's? I did see the dimensons of this thing and it is twice as small as the M1!!! I cannot wait until I will have money to buy it! it should be alot easier stealthing. so for this thing you need a CF card? and to record for more than 2 hrs. you should get a 8 GB CF card? this thing looks NOYCE!
Quote from: RyanJ on July 29, 2005, 02:07:24 PM
I know this has already been covered in the 1st topic of this. but as I have seen the inputs and I see a mic in. so we do not have a line in on this thing? I know there are two connectors for L/R mic inputs. I am guessing that is Line In? I tired reading all of the first thread and I saw that there was going to be a Line In on this recorder? how would I convert it to use my DPA 4061's? I did see the dimensons of this thing and it is twice as small as the M1!!! I cannot wait until I will have money to buy it! it should be alot easier stealthing. so for this thing you need a CF card? and to record for more than 2 hrs. you should get a 8 GB CF card? this thing looks NOYCE!
check out the pictures in this thread. the inputs can be switched so that they can accept either mic or line inputs
Quote from: Brian Sax on July 29, 2005, 02:30:24 PM
Quote from: RyanJ on July 29, 2005, 02:07:24 PM
I know this has already been covered in the 1st topic of this. but as I have seen the inputs and I see a mic in. so we do not have a line in on this thing? I know there are two connectors for L/R mic inputs. I am guessing that is Line In? I tired reading all of the first thread and I saw that there was going to be a Line In on this recorder? how would I convert it to use my DPA 4061's? I did see the dimensons of this thing and it is twice as small as the M1!!! I cannot wait until I will have money to buy it! it should be alot easier stealthing. so for this thing you need a CF card? and to record for more than 2 hrs. you should get a 8 GB CF card? this thing looks NOYCE!
check out the pictures in this thread. the inputs can be switched so that they can accept either mic or line inputs
where is the line in? its not a 1/8 connector I am guessing? its the 2 big inputs in the middle? how would I use that? thanks for help Brian. +T
there is a switch as indicated in another picture. it's the one that says m/l/h
Quotethere is a switch as indicated in another picture. it's the one that says m/l/h
Actually someone posted earlier that that particular switch deals with gain (low/medium/high).
The 1/4" inputs are obviously the only method of attaining a line level signal, however I would bet the selection of mic or line is inside the menu, as there is no obvious hardware switch in the pictures we've seen.
that's right...low/medium/high......sorry aobut that!
probably selectable from a menu?
Quote from: Brian Sax on July 29, 2005, 03:00:57 PM
that's right...low/medium/high......sorry aobut that!
probably selectable from a menu?
hopefully it is. if not is there a cable out there where it goes into 2 1/4 cables then you can plug in a 1/8 cable at the other? would that work to use some 4061's?
This looks like one...
http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=Adpt2QmmMsf&preadd=action
Quote from: greenone on July 29, 2005, 03:23:07 PM
This looks like one...
http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=Adpt2QmmMsf&preadd=action
holla back! I was just kind of lazy and didn't want to search for it! would it work though?
Quote from: wboswell on July 29, 2005, 09:02:08 AM
Quote from: Tenn Man on July 28, 2005, 04:20:54 PM
What is the L/M/H button on the side?
Low/Medium/High Gain
Quote from: sonicsoundiii on July 29, 2005, 07:34:05 AM
Can you easily get to the internal battery for possible replacement in the field?
There is no easy way to replace the battery in the field. There are no screws on the back panel, just solid plastic. As mentioned earlier, the usb port is the way to power for extended use.
The knob next to the cf/micro drive slot is the "joy stick" if you will, that toggles through the menu option.
It weighs about as much as a cell phone, maybe less.
Quote from: jmerin on July 29, 2005, 08:58:02 AM
the only question that i have is, what happpends after 2 gigs, does it create a new file, if not the you are fucked. wavelab can't open more than 2 gigs
jon
CD Wave opens files larger than 2gb for me...
oh ok, but will this be able to recorder larger than 2gb
Quote from: jmerin on July 29, 2005, 04:01:28 PM
oh ok, but will this be able to recorder larger than 2gb
m-audio says the next firmware upgrade should address this, maybe by the time it's released that will not be an issue.
Quote from: RyanJ on July 29, 2005, 03:57:57 PM
Quote from: greenone on July 29, 2005, 03:23:07 PM
This looks like one...
http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=Adpt2QmmMsf&preadd=action
holla back! I was just kind of lazy and didn't want to search for it! would it work though?
I don't see why it wouldn't...left is left, right is right...
well that will be an issue to me, i am surprised that no one brought up this issue
Quote from: jmerin on July 29, 2005, 05:22:21 PM
well that will be an issue to me, i am surprised that no one brought up this issue
this issue has been brought up before, and I contacted M-Audio's tech support in regards to this question. I posted this in one of the other threads.
Quotewell, today I got an answer from M-Audio tech support in regards to the 2 GB file limit and a possible autosplit feature.
here is the relevant text from a couple of emails:
Quote
Jason,
The FAT32 file format has a 2GB limit for an individual file.
We plan on releasing updates for this product through out it's life cycle. Although we cannot give more information at this time, please check back for updates.
Please let us know if you need further assistance.
Take Care,
LE
and after further questioning:
Quote
Yes, the file split feature will be implemented in the next few weeks with
an update we are releasing.
So, there's our answer. I hadn't seen any info about this yet, so I thought I'd go ahead and post it here for everyone.
It seems clear to me that they are aware of this issue. because the shipment of these got delayed to the end of August anyway, IMO, it is likely that they will ship with this issue already resolved.
Just got an email from Chris at Sound Professionals, he heard from M-Audio that the FlashTracker release is put off until September.
Rats.
Jeff
still better than being put off 2-3 years ala the 722/744T
the white zone is for loading and unloading...
Quote from: John R on July 30, 2005, 12:29:54 AM
the white zone is for loading and unloading...
If yah gotta load, or if yah gotta unload, go to the WHITE ZONE. You'll love it...it's a way of life. This, is, the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER!
+T
Quote from: Bean on July 30, 2005, 12:12:57 AM
still better than being put off 2-3 years ala the 722/744T
still hatin'
;D
Quote from: BigRay on July 30, 2005, 08:06:45 AM
Quote from: Bean on July 30, 2005, 12:12:57 AM
still better than being put off 2-3 years ala the 722/744T
still hatin'
;D
at this point....doesn't even matter anymore? the product is out.
Quote from: Brian Sax on July 30, 2005, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: BigRay on July 30, 2005, 08:06:45 AM
Quote from: Bean on July 30, 2005, 12:12:57 AM
still better than being put off 2-3 years ala the 722/744T
still hatin'
;D
at this point....doesn't even matter anymore? the product is out.
bingo. +T
Some heads up for the european guys. The retail price for the MicroTrack in germany is 499 €. I assume that will be the price for most of the european countries as well. One german dealer has it listed for 449 € now.
Quote from: BigRay on July 30, 2005, 10:33:30 AM
Quote from: Brian Sax on July 30, 2005, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: BigRay on July 30, 2005, 08:06:45 AM
Quote from: Bean on July 30, 2005, 12:12:57 AM
still better than being put off 2-3 years ala the 722/744T
still hatin'
;D
at this point....doesn't even matter anymore? the product is out.
bingo. +T
if ya dont like my hatin, dont read it, this IS a micro tracker thread, not an overpriced and late release thread :P and its my opinion
bean is right though...if this thing materializes even this year it will be about 5 times faster than sound devices....from first mention to product shipping it's still only been a few months.
Quote from: Bean on July 30, 2005, 05:02:28 PM
Quote from: BigRay on July 30, 2005, 10:33:30 AM
Quote from: Brian Sax on July 30, 2005, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: BigRay on July 30, 2005, 08:06:45 AM
Quote from: Bean on July 30, 2005, 12:12:57 AM
still better than being put off 2-3 years ala the 722/744T
still hatin'
;D
at this point....doesn't even matter anymore? the product is out.
bingo. +T
if ya dont like my hatin, dont read it, this IS a micro tracker thread, not an overpriced and late release thread :P and its my opinion
your opinions made it into the 722/744 threads :-X
even though i disagree with them it doesn't mean i won't respect them, read them, or counter with my own ;)
not to mention i'm interested in this device as well
well, good ;D
sorry if that sounds like a dick, i had the worst day in a LONG time :'(
you didn't sound like a dick. more like a broken record ;)
sorry to hear about your bad day. that sucks. hope it gets better :)
Quote from: Brian Sax on July 30, 2005, 05:12:23 PM
you didn't sound like a dick. more like a broken record ;)
sorry to hear about your bad day. that sucks. hope it gets better :)
thanks bud!
Quote from: Bean on July 30, 2005, 05:09:12 PM
well, good ;D
sorry if that sounds like a dick, i had the worst day in a LONG time :'(
Bean needs NO MORE bad days ;D
take care bud!
Quote from: cmc64 on July 30, 2005, 05:43:35 PM
Quote from: Bean on July 30, 2005, 05:09:12 PM
well, good ;D
sorry if that sounds like a dick, i had the worst day in a LONG time :'(
Bean needs NO MORE bad days ;D
take care bud!
;D
Quote from: cmc64 on July 30, 2005, 05:43:35 PM
Quote from: Bean on July 30, 2005, 05:09:12 PM
well, good ;D
sorry if that sounds like a dick, i had the worst day in a LONG time :'(
Bean needs NO MORE bad days ;D
take care bud!
qft! take the rest of the day easy beaner!
thanks guys :smoking:
working this much makes bean mean!
its all good . youll be alright hoss.
FWIW im never serious when i crack on you.
i hope you know that. i dont have it in me to be mean.
+T for your troubles
and for being the head of the redundancy department department
i know :-*
ok, back to business..
i want mine!!! :P
jb3 has been a little flaky for me lately.... >:(
Quote from: Bean on July 30, 2005, 06:07:22 PM
thanks guys :smoking:
working this much makes bean mean!
all work and no beer makes Bean something something....
"Go Crazy?"
"Don't mind if I do! Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! [/Homer and Marge]
i want one too :)
getting a 4gb flash card soon maybe!
got mine already...i just want to use it!!
with the size and all, it looks like a glorified dictaphone.amazing how they put all that stuff in that little box. its gonna serve me nicely i believe, for beautiful 24bit SBD patches! cant wait to get some 24 bit matrix tapes up ! I hope it serves that function well, dont need it for anything else, got the 722 for mic sources. hell, for the price/value whats to lose if it sucks, sell it on ebay..
i bet we see a lot more stealth tapes now ! given the fact that weve heard of folks stealthing a 722 and jb3, etc..this opens up all kinds of opportunities..
ill continue to walk on the right side of ethics myself :P ;)
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on July 30, 2005, 09:38:56 PM
got mine already...i just want to use it!!
I had to read this twice to realize that you were talking about the cf card and not the flash tracker. doh! I gotta stop drinkin...too hazy this morning.
Perhaps this was already mentioned and I missed it amongst the various threads on this device, but m-audio has the recorder on it's site now...
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html
Mentioned many times now. ;)
I want one...
I haven't kept up with every page, so hopefully no one has mentioned this:
Core-Sounds is selling these for $369.
http://www.core-sound.com/microtrack_2496.html
I don't really like the way Len runs his business, so I may just spend the extra $30 at Sound Professionals (or ask them to match him).
I still haven't decided if I'm actually going to get one. I really need some better stealth mics first.
MIKE B
Why not get one from Frank at Cascade? He may be able to match the price.
Are you guys interested in this product simply for stealthing, or do you think that it could be comparable to larger, slightly higher end products for non-stealth?
Also, going back to the battery issue, as mentioned earlier, it can connect to a Li-ion battery pack via the USB port. That said, can any of you recommend a decent power source that would serve this purpose along with what kind of cable? Thanks.
Quote from: martay27 on July 31, 2005, 11:23:22 PM
Are you guys interested in this product simply for stealthing, or do you think that it could be comparable to larger, slightly higher end products for non-stealth?
Also, going back to the battery issue, as mentioned earlier, it can connect to a Li-ion battery pack via the USB port. That said, can any of you recommend a decent power source that would serve this purpose along with what kind of cable? Thanks.
Well I am definately getting one for stealthing. this thing looks NICE! plus DAT won't be around forever... :'(
Quote from: martay27 on July 31, 2005, 11:23:22 PM
Are you guys interested in this product simply for stealthing, or do you think that it could be comparable to larger, slightly higher end products for non-stealth?
Also, going back to the battery issue, as mentioned earlier, it can connect to a Li-ion battery pack via the USB port. That said, can any of you recommend a decent power source that would serve this purpose along with what kind of cable? Thanks.
Both.
http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=13&subcategory=57&product=10110
Ok, silly question...would it be possible to charge AND record at the same time with something like this? Has anyone ever run the JB3 while charging it at the same time?
Quote from: greenone on August 01, 2005, 10:04:00 AM
Ok, silly question...would it be possible to charge AND record at the same time with something like this? Has anyone ever run the JB3 while charging it at the same time?
No idea on your first question, but to answer your second, the JB3 doesn't use its USB to charge - it has a plug-thingy. And you can plug/unplug the charger during use without the unit even noticing. It will charge as you use.
I was hoping the MTracker had a separate power in from the USB - the connection seems kinda flimsy to me.
Terry
It'll be a slow charge. IIRC, USB delivers a maximum of 500ma. Based on it's size, I'd expect the battery to be in the 1500-2000 mAh range, meaning 3-5 hours for a recharge (assuming nothing else in the USB chain and the Flash Tracker is off).
Hmm. Ok. The reason I ask is, if this thing gets 3 hours with phantom on, that'll be cutting it close for longer shows. If it's possible to charge and record at the same time, then it's not a problem, but if hooking something up via USB will make the unit wonk out, then that's not good. I forgot the JB3 had the separate wall wart, so it's anybody's guess.
Quote from: greenone on August 01, 2005, 11:50:03 AM
Hmm. Ok. The reason I ask is, if this thing gets 3 hours with phantom on, that'll be cutting it close for longer shows. If it's possible to charge and record at the same time, then it's not a problem, but if hooking something up via USB will make the unit wonk out, then that's not good. I forgot the JB3 had the separate wall wart, so it's anybody's guess.
I'd put money on being able to record and have it externally powered at the same time. Maybe not *charge* - but at least draw power over the USB for operation.
Quote from: greenone on August 01, 2005, 11:50:03 AM
Hmm. Ok. The reason I ask is, if this thing gets 3 hours with phantom on, that'll be cutting it close for longer shows. If it's possible to charge and record at the same time, then it's not a problem, but if hooking something up via USB will make the unit wonk out, then that's not good. I forgot the JB3 had the separate wall wart, so it's anybody's guess.
Thinking about this issue also, and notice that even the very nice MyPowerAll battery is pretty big compared to the MicroTrack. So maybe I just get TWO of 'em. Is that an elegant solution? If they're small enough and nice enough, it is
Jeff.
Quote from: John Kelly on August 01, 2005, 12:17:42 PM
Quote from: greenone on August 01, 2005, 11:50:03 AM
Hmm. Ok. The reason I ask is, if this thing gets 3 hours with phantom on, that'll be cutting it close for longer shows. If it's possible to charge and record at the same time, then it's not a problem, but if hooking something up via USB will make the unit wonk out, then that's not good. I forgot the JB3 had the separate wall wart, so it's anybody's guess.
I'd put money on being able to record and have it externally powered at the same time. Maybe not *charge* - but at least draw power over the USB for operation.
You can power the unit via usb while it is recording.
The only issue is that you won't be able to use a beefy connector (ie locking barrel type) for your s/pdif cable. Not really a big deal at all, but my zoalla silverline was not an option, even with the locking sleeve off.
Quote from: wboswell on August 01, 2005, 01:31:21 PM
Quote from: John Kelly on August 01, 2005, 12:17:42 PM
Quote from: greenone on August 01, 2005, 11:50:03 AM
Hmm. Ok. The reason I ask is, if this thing gets 3 hours with phantom on, that'll be cutting it close for longer shows. If it's possible to charge and record at the same time, then it's not a problem, but if hooking something up via USB will make the unit wonk out, then that's not good. I forgot the JB3 had the separate wall wart, so it's anybody's guess.
I'd put money on being able to record and have it externally powered at the same time. Maybe not *charge* - but at least draw power over the USB for operation.
You can power the unit via usb while it is recording.
The only issue is that you won't be able to use a beefy connector (ie locking barrel type) for your s/pdif cable. Not really a big deal at all, but my zoalla silverline was not an option, even with the locking sleeve off.
audio magic makes locking rca style coax cables, thats what i'll be investing in ;D
Quote from: Bean on August 01, 2005, 07:28:54 PM
Quote from: wboswell on August 01, 2005, 01:31:21 PM
Quote from: John Kelly on August 01, 2005, 12:17:42 PM
Quote from: greenone on August 01, 2005, 11:50:03 AM
Hmm. Ok. The reason I ask is, if this thing gets 3 hours with phantom on, that'll be cutting it close for longer shows. If it's possible to charge and record at the same time, then it's not a problem, but if hooking something up via USB will make the unit wonk out, then that's not good. I forgot the JB3 had the separate wall wart, so it's anybody's guess.
I'd put money on being able to record and have it externally powered at the same time. Maybe not *charge* - but at least draw power over the USB for operation.
You can power the unit via usb while it is recording.
The only issue is that you won't be able to use a beefy connector (ie locking barrel type) for your s/pdif cable. Not really a big deal at all, but my zoalla silverline was not an option, even with the locking sleeve off.
audio magic makes locking rca style coax cables, thats what i'll be investing in ;D
Maybe I didn't make myself clear in my previous post...
You will NOT be able to use a beefy connector with a locking connector for your s/pdif connection. There is not enough room, at least on the unit I held. You'll want to use something like an apogee wyed-eye with a really thin barrel. We used an generic cable like the one that is provided when you buy a tv or vcr.. you know, the super cheap freebie.
Quote from: wboswell on August 01, 2005, 07:50:08 PM
Quote from: Bean on August 01, 2005, 07:28:54 PM
Quote from: wboswell on August 01, 2005, 01:31:21 PM
Quote from: John Kelly on August 01, 2005, 12:17:42 PM
Quote from: greenone on August 01, 2005, 11:50:03 AM
Hmm. Ok. The reason I ask is, if this thing gets 3 hours with phantom on, that'll be cutting it close for longer shows. If it's possible to charge and record at the same time, then it's not a problem, but if hooking something up via USB will make the unit wonk out, then that's not good. I forgot the JB3 had the separate wall wart, so it's anybody's guess.
I'd put money on being able to record and have it externally powered at the same time. Maybe not *charge* - but at least draw power over the USB for operation.
You can power the unit via usb while it is recording.
The only issue is that you won't be able to use a beefy connector (ie locking barrel type) for your s/pdif cable. Not really a big deal at all, but my zoalla silverline was not an option, even with the locking sleeve off.
audio magic makes locking rca style coax cables, thats what i'll be investing in ;D
Maybe I didn't make myself clear in my previous post... You will NOT be able to use a beefy connector with a locking connector for your s/pdif connection. There is not enough room, at least on the unit I held. You'll want to use something like an apogee wyed-eye with a really thin barrel. We used an generic cable like the one that is provided when you buy a tv or vcr.. you know, the super cheap freebie.
oh ok, thanks bos ;D
+T
not to say you couldn't hack a nice cable and make it fit, but stock lockers have too much meat on the bone...
I wonder if you could connect the coax to the jack and add a small dot of solder to lock it in place? Then reheat and remove if you ever need to repair/replace the cable.
Just thinking out loud.
Quote from: wboswell on August 01, 2005, 07:50:08 PM
Quote from: Bean on August 01, 2005, 07:28:54 PM
Quote from: wboswell on August 01, 2005, 01:31:21 PM
Quote from: John Kelly on August 01, 2005, 12:17:42 PM
Quote from: greenone on August 01, 2005, 11:50:03 AM
Hmm. Ok. The reason I ask is, if this thing gets 3 hours with phantom on, that'll be cutting it close for longer shows. If it's possible to charge and record at the same time, then it's not a problem, but if hooking something up via USB will make the unit wonk out, then that's not good. I forgot the JB3 had the separate wall wart, so it's anybody's guess.
I'd put money on being able to record and have it externally powered at the same time. Maybe not *charge* - but at least draw power over the USB for operation.
You can power the unit via usb while it is recording.
The only issue is that you won't be able to use a beefy connector (ie locking barrel type) for your s/pdif cable. Not really a big deal at all, but my zoalla silverline was not an option, even with the locking sleeve off.
audio magic makes locking rca style coax cables, thats what i'll be investing in ;D
Maybe I didn't make myself clear in my previous post... You will NOT be able to use a beefy connector with a locking connector for your s/pdif connection. There is not enough room, at least on the unit I held. You'll want to use something like an apogee wyed-eye with a really thin barrel. We used an generic cable like the one that is provided when you buy a tv or vcr.. you know, the super cheap freebie.
thanks for the info
+T
looks like I need to order a different cable
Well it's appeared on the m-audio UK site now (no new info except UK price):
http://www.maudio.co.uk/products/en_gb/MicroTrack2496-main.html
As usual for this sort of stuff over here, it looks like they just changed the $ to a £ sign which nearly doubles the USA price, at £349... I'll try and call a dealer tomorrow and see if that will be the actual street price. The $399 from US dealers looks good until you add the shipping, and then customs charges - it comes to almost the same, and you end-up with the wrong AC adaptor too.
And thinking aloud, I'll probably answer my own question here but - the info says it has balanced 1/4" inputs - presumably that means it's a 1/4" 'stereo' plug, or is there another type of plug needed to maintain the shielding? And so for phantom power, you'd still need the phantom power adaptors on your mics, and then an XLR-F to 1/4" stereo plug adaptor? I've looked around online and it seems you can get exactly this, but I think I'll make up a couple of extension leads so I can have the phantom adaptors stuffed in my back pocket instead of hanging out the front of the unit.
If the Microtrack is the size and shape of a mobile phone then they should make a clip-on cellphone cover for the ultimate in stealthing - it could be made so that the keypad could operate the record and level controls ;)
each 1/4" is TRS, making it balanced for line inputs.
other than using mics that are not designed for phantom power, why would you need phantom adapters?
the device can provide 48V phantom.
Quote from: nic on August 01, 2005, 08:33:15 PM
each 1/4" is TRS, making it balanced for line inputs.
other than using mics that are not designed for phantom power, why would you need phantom adapters?
the device can provide 48V phantom.
to save batt power from the micro tracker!
Quote from: Bean on August 01, 2005, 08:37:23 PM
Quote from: nic on August 01, 2005, 08:33:15 PM
each 1/4" is TRS, making it balanced for line inputs.
other than using mics that are not designed for phantom power, why would you need phantom adapters?
the device can provide 48V phantom.
to save batt power from the micro tracker!
find a battery, regulate it down to 5v, and put a usb connector on it, or, use a outboard pre/ad :P
Quote from: nic on August 01, 2005, 08:33:15 PM
other than using mics that are not designed for phantom power, why would you need phantom adapters?
the device can provide 48V phantom.
I have AT853s (Converted back from SP-CMC-4), and at the moment they go AT853>Phantom adaptor>PS-2
So presumably if I take the PS-2 out and replace it with the Microtrack (or some other phantom power supply), the adaptors are still needed?
Quote from: Judderbar on August 01, 2005, 08:51:23 PM
Quote from: nic on August 01, 2005, 08:33:15 PM
other than using mics that are not designed for phantom power, why would you need phantom adapters?
the device can provide 48V phantom.
I have AT853s (Converted back from SP-CMC-4), and at the moment they go AT853>Phantom adaptor>PS-2
So presumably if I take the PS-2 out and replace it with the Microtrack (or some other phantom power supply), the adaptors are still needed?
or, keep your existing mics>adapter>ps2 and put 1/4" adaptors coming out of the ps2 into the microtrack
QuoteAs usual for this sort of stuff over here, it looks like they just changed the $ to a £ sign which nearly doubles the USA price, at £349... I'll try and call a dealer tomorrow and see if that will be the actual street price. The $399 from US dealers looks good until you add the shipping, and then customs charges - it comes to almost the same, and you end-up with the wrong AC adaptor too.
Actually, if you look at the us site, it lists $499. So check with EU dealers and see if their actual price is lower than the MSRP over there.
Yeah I know - I'm just used to the list price being 'it' alot of the time over here...
Having said that, I called Turnkey (http://www.turnkey.co.uk) today, who do seem to have m-audio gear at less than list price, and... they didn't have it on their system yet - said to try again in a week or 2. I called m-audio themselves, and they are hoping it will be available in the UK in 4 - 6 weeks.
FWIW, someone posted the following to the Oade board on the MicroTrack:
"There are numerous reports of trouble with the S/PDIF input and the mic input when phantom power is used. These same sources say reports from beta testers are why it's ship date is being pushed back from late August to mid September. "
I have no idea what the source of this information is, or where the "betsa testers" might be lurking, but this is not good news.
Jeff
And I also believe that person had nothing to back up his comment ...
Exactly, put up or shut up.
I don't think this has been brought up before, but am I the only person who feels like this recorder will be less than ideal in a festival setting? Shit, even if you have a 8gb cf card and decide to run 16/44.1 you wouldn't have enough recording time. And I know I don't want to spend more on flash cards than I would on the actual device itself.
Any thoughts?
That's why you get an OTG external device to dump down to, or bring a laptop along and dump down to at the end of each day/run of shows.
It has actually been brought up a few times. People were discussing picking up an external harddrive to transfer the files to via USB between sets.
All in all though, I do think you're onto something. The $399 list seems really nice, until you factor in the cost of CF cards, an external drive, external powering solution, etc. Looks like this could easily run close to a grand wth everything.
Quote from: Bdifr78 on August 02, 2005, 12:21:05 PM
I don't think this has been brought up before, but am I the only person who feels like this recorder will be less than ideal in a festival setting? Shit, even if you have a 8gb cf card and decide to run 16/44.1 you wouldn't have enough recording time. And I know I don't want to spend more on flash cards than I would on the actual device itself.
Any thoughts?
for festivals this summer its gonna be tough but as the price of CF drops then it should be less of an issue.
If I had 1 in time for a festival this year I would simply bring my laptop with me and invest in a CF reader. That way I could copy files off and not need as many cards (provided I trusted it enough not to run the laptop as well)
Quote from: Nick Graham on August 02, 2005, 12:24:18 PM
All in all though, I do think you're onto something. The $399 list seems really nice, until you factor in the cost of CF cards, an external drive, external powering solution, etc. Looks like this could easily run close to a grand wth everything.
True, but how much have you spent on DAT media over the years? That's your savings right there...
$1000? What are you looking at??
$350 - Flash Tracker (what most vendors we use are advertising)
$220 - 4 GB CF Card
$120 - 60 GB OTG HD
Total: $690
Yeah, ok, $300 off....
Quote from: greenone on August 02, 2005, 12:30:17 PM
True, but how much have you spent on DAT media over the years? That's your savings right there...
Agreed...
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 02, 2005, 12:31:52 PM
$1000? What are you looking at??
$350 - Flash Tracker (what most vendors we use are advertising)
$220 - 4 GB CF Card
$120 - 60 GB OTG HD
Total: $690
Yeah, ok, $300 off....
Well, the original post was talking about a 8GB CF card, which adds an additional $400 onto your total + whatever external powering options become available.
So it could be (with a 8GB card) closer to $1200
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 02, 2005, 12:31:52 PM
$1000? What are you looking at??
$350 - Flash Tracker (what most vendors we use are advertising)
$220 - 4 GB CF Card
$120 - 60 GB OTG HD
Total: $690
Yeah, ok, $300 off....
even with a leegeddy vr-box with usb powering output and some extra dvd batts, you're still under a grand...which is still less than the cheapest available 24-bit recorder.
I am in no hurry to get rid of the jb3 yet.
I will probably wait a few months to see how people like using this before buying.
But that's just how I am about anything really.
Although I am sure the first time I see it live in action I am gonna need it. That just keeps happening to me lately. :'(
Additional $400? There's an 8GB on eBay right now, BIN, $425, only adds $200.
Regardless, you're still looking at a little less than half the 722, and the size isn't beatable for stealth. And how many festivals do folks really do during the season? I usually only do 1. We splurged and did 2 this year. ANd as mentioned, you're not spending the money on DAT or, god forbid, MD. Assuming this thing works as advertised, it's a great option for those that can't do the 722.
EDIT: Sorry, the 8GB isn't BIN, it's got bids....oops...
i'm ready to get rid of the jb3...too many finicky problems with it. i'll still run one as backup for a while though.
Quotebut am I the only person who feels like this recorder will be less than ideal in a festival setting? Shit, even if you have a 8gb cf card and decide to run 16/44.1 you wouldn't have enough recording time. And I know I don't want to spend more on flash cards than I would on the actual device itself.
I never tape festivals, so I don't care. And of the few I've been to I'd only want to tape a couple acts at the most.
As for the cost, my FlashTracker package is coming in at just a hair under $500 including a 4 gig CF card. That seems like a bargain for 24bit recording to me.
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 02, 2005, 12:47:52 PM
Additional $400? There's an 8GB on eBay right now, BIN, $425, only adds $200.
Regardless, you're still looking at a little less than half the 722, and the size isn't beatable for stealth. And how many festivals do folks really do during the season? I usually only do 1. We splurged and did 2 this year. ANd as mentioned, you're not spending the money on DAT or, god forbid, MD. Assuming this thing works as advertised, it's a great option for those that can't do the 722.
EDIT: Sorry, the 8GB isn't BIN, it's got bids....oops...
I agree, and think it'll be a great alternative to (and in the long run cheaper than) DAT.
Just pointing out the $350 price is somewhat misleading...
Quote from: Nick Graham on August 02, 2005, 01:04:54 PM
Just pointing out the $350 price is somewhat misleading...
I thought some folks were finding it various places for that price??
He means the total cost wont be $350 after you add in CF cards.
Gotcha.
That's why I had seperate entries for the CF cards. ;)
Seems like there is alot of blind faith if everyone believes that the hold up on the shipments is simply incidental to production... if everything was working as it should, wouldn't you think they'd be in everyone's grubby hands by now? C'mon, think about it. They aren't hoarding the product... there's a hold up for a reason.
Does anyone remember how long it took the jb3 to get reliable at 16/44? Now consider what m-audio is hoping to get done and especially at the incredibly low price point - which is cheaper than ANY DAT machine to ever be produced.
God bless m-audio for making a consumer level product that is so affordable, but heaven help them (and especially the vendors) when someone looses a recording b/c a unit locks up (which is a certainty).
Hater >:D
Quote from: silentmark on August 02, 2005, 02:12:34 PM
Hater >:D
I'm hating it alright - hating it for Frank!
But seriously, I think its great. I can't wait to have more high-res recordings available. That's just about all I listen to these days at home... I just hope that people will circulate the 24/96 stuff and not just circulate dithered sources like I've noticed others do.
Personally, I'm glad it's been held up. If there are problems, as folks on other boards have suggested, I'd rather they work it out and ship out units that are working out of the box and ready to go. None of this getting the unit, have it not work up to par, wait for updates, etc for months. Let them keep it till it's ready to go. I'm still holding on to 1 of my 3 JB3's, so I can still tape!
Quote from: wboswell on August 02, 2005, 02:10:19 PMGod bless m-audio for making a consumer level product that is so affordable, but heaven help them (and especially the vendors) when someone looses a recording b/c a unit locks up (which is a certainty).
Ah, yes - the inevitable lockup. The "DAT misload" of HD/CF recording. Regardless of device manufacturer, they all do it eventually, it seems.
cf prices are dropping all the time, you can a 1gb card for less than $50 now. sure, thats not enuf for us, but they'll continue to drop, even the 4gb and 8gb ones. and no, the microtracker might not work perfectly out of the box, but it'll come around, and when it does, it'll be a nice little machine for those not wanting to drop the $$$ on a 722.
we just have to be optimistic and patient.
being that this things sole purpose in existence is recording 24/96 digitally (with not much emphasis on the pre/ad section), i have a bit more faith in it than other similar products touting to be a true all-in-one box with many applications. this is pretty much the stripped down solid state recorder we've been wanting for 24/96 since the jb3 came out, and this is even better since it is smaller and uses solid state instead of spinning platters.
anyone have an idea what cables or adapters to use with this?
would this be a good one for making your own?
(http://www.partsexpress.com/images/092-104m.jpg)
My concern with something like that is they may be too fat. Who's our man that's had one of these in his hands??
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 02, 2005, 03:36:13 PM
My concern with something like that is they may be too fat. Who's our man that's had one of these in his hands??
bos.
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 02, 2005, 03:26:11 PM
being that this things sole purpose in existence is recording 24/96 digitally (with not much emphasis on the pre/ad section),
Why do you say that is the sole purpose? I want to use it for analog recording too.
Quote from: 1st set only on August 02, 2005, 03:34:47 PM
anyone have an idea what cables or adapters to use with this?
would this be a good one for making your own?
(http://www.partsexpress.com/images/092-104m.jpg)
that cable would work for line-in, but its not balanced, so you couldnt use that if you want to use the phantom power on the M-Audio
Quote from: Tenn Man on August 02, 2005, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 02, 2005, 03:26:11 PM
being that this things sole purpose in existence is recording 24/96 digitally (with not much emphasis on the pre/ad section),
Why do you say that is the sole purpose? I want to use it for analog recording too.
well, of course it's not its SOLE purpose, but i see it as being primary...i mean, without high-quality analog gain i don't see it as being mainly intended for analog recording. of course it will fit the bill for that, but with the presence of many high quality analog pre's and a/d's out there, the inclusion of s/pdif says to me that they want this thing to be an easy, portable, reliable storage medium for that digital data.
the opinions above may not reflect the views of ts.com, m-audio, or anyone but myself.
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 02, 2005, 03:49:55 PM
Quote from: Tenn Man on August 02, 2005, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 02, 2005, 03:26:11 PM
being that this things sole purpose in existence is recording 24/96 digitally (with not much emphasis on the pre/ad section),
Why do you say that is the sole purpose? I want to use it for analog recording too.
well, of course it's not its SOLE purpose, but i see it as being primary...i mean, without high-quality analog gain i don't see it as being mainly intended for analog recording. of course it will fit the bill for that, but with the presence of many high quality analog pre's and a/d's out there, the inclusion of s/pdif says to me that they want this thing to be an easy, portable, reliable storage medium for that digital data.
the opinions above may not reflect the views of ts.com, m-audio, or anyone but myself.
it reflects my view
Quote from: nic on August 02, 2005, 03:46:19 PM
Quote from: 1st set only on August 02, 2005, 03:34:47 PM
anyone have an idea what cables or adapters to use with this?
would this be a good one for making your own?
(http://www.partsexpress.com/images/092-104m.jpg)
that cable would work for line-in, but its not balanced, so you couldnt use that if you want to use the phantom power on the M-Audio
could you point me to one on parts express that would work?
(http://www.partsexpress.com/images/092-100m.jpg)
or the RA version:
(http://www.partsexpress.com/images/092-105m.jpg)
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 02, 2005, 03:49:55 PM
Quote from: Tenn Man on August 02, 2005, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 02, 2005, 03:26:11 PM
being that this things sole purpose in existence is recording 24/96 digitally (with not much emphasis on the pre/ad section),
Why do you say that is the sole purpose? I want to use it for analog recording too.
well, of course it's not its SOLE purpose, but i see it as being primary...i mean, without high-quality analog gain i don't see it as being mainly intended for analog recording. of course it will fit the bill for that, but with the presence of many high quality analog pre's and a/d's out there, the inclusion of s/pdif says to me that they want this thing to be an easy, portable, reliable storage medium for that digital data.
the opinions above may not reflect the views of ts.com, m-audio, or anyone but myself.
You see it as the primary, but the designers see way more use than just digital in. promise. Our niche is exactly that, a niche. We are a drop in the bucket when compared to the number of other uses this thing is intended for.
Quote from: wboswell on August 02, 2005, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 02, 2005, 03:49:55 PM
Quote from: Tenn Man on August 02, 2005, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 02, 2005, 03:26:11 PM
being that this things sole purpose in existence is recording 24/96 digitally (with not much emphasis on the pre/ad section),
Why do you say that is the sole purpose? I want to use it for analog recording too.
well, of course it's not its SOLE purpose, but i see it as being primary...i mean, without high-quality analog gain i don't see it as being mainly intended for analog recording. of course it will fit the bill for that, but with the presence of many high quality analog pre's and a/d's out there, the inclusion of s/pdif says to me that they want this thing to be an easy, portable, reliable storage medium for that digital data.
the opinions above may not reflect the views of ts.com, m-audio, or anyone but myself.
You see it as the primary, but the designers see way more use than just digital in. promise. Our niche is exactly that, a niche. We are a drop in the bucket when compared to the number of other uses this thing is intended for.
ahem...
Quotethe opinions above may not reflect the views of ts.com, m-audio, or anyone but myself.
;D
i see your point and agree with you, however any way you slice it the thing is a storage device for digital audio...whether it comes it via analog or digital, it doesn't matter... it's getting stored digitally, and if they want this thing to be any more than a glorified 24/96 note taker, they'll make sure it can record for extended periods of time without issues.
Quote from: Sixto Lezcano on August 02, 2005, 01:39:00 PM
seems to me that some of those folks on the oade board just don't like the m-audio for some reason. maybe they won't sell it, i don't know. but they keep fluffing the marantz products over there too, and those just don't look appealing at all to me(especially the cdr box they are now fluffing). of course i do hope oade sells these, that makes the chances of any doug mods that much better. to me, this m-audio still looks like it can be the best of the entire bunch, and thank the good lord i have no interest whatsoever in taping festivals :)
Nope, doug has a list just like every other dealer does.
This looks pretty promising for 5 bills.
I'm buying one. Maybe this will kick me into the 24b realm. I've yet to hear a show @ 24/96
Wondering...
Are there any figures on the Signal / Noise ratio on the mic inputs (or for that matter the analog inputs)? Is it really going to be 24 bits?
I have tried the Edirol R-1 and the signal / noise ratio of that box is terrible. To me there is absolutely no idea to record at 24 bits, as the noise level hints at around 14 to 15 bits before the noise floor. (The R-4 though is pretty decent, there 24 bit is actually useful). For most uses I would say 16 bits is quite Ok, especially for a rock or pop concert as the ambient noise level is so high anyway. I however record mostly classical music, and for that something like 18 to 20 bits really come useful to captur the music between clipping and noise floor of the equipment.
So is this box going to be good in that respect?
Gunnar
Quote from: Tenn Man on August 02, 2005, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 02, 2005, 03:26:11 PM
being that this things sole purpose in existence is recording 24/96 digitally (with not much emphasis on the pre/ad section),
Why do you say that is the sole purpose? I want to use it for analog recording too.
I think you may be confused, sure the device has digital and analog inputs, but any and all recording will be digital - it is a digital device. I suppose you could use it as a preamp, and output the analog out, but then you would still need another ananlog recorder. If you want to record onto analog, buy a cassette deck.
And yeah, while it can do other things, I don't see why you wouldn't use this to fullest potential and go 24/96. Dither later for whatever, but you have to power, use it... So, while I'm not sure I'd say "sole purpose", I'd defintely say, "might as well be"...
Terry
Not confused. What i meant was recording from an analog source.
Quote from: ghellquist on August 04, 2005, 10:05:30 AM
Wondering...
Are there any figures on the Signal / Noise ratio on the mic inputs (or for that matter the analog inputs)? Is it really going to be 24 bits?
I have tried the Edirol R-1 and the signal / noise ratio of that box is terrible. To me there is absolutely no idea to record at 24 bits, as the noise level hints at around 14 to 15 bits before the noise floor. (The R-4 though is pretty decent, there 24 bit is actually useful). For most uses I would say 16 bits is quite Ok, especially for a rock or pop concert as the ambient noise level is so high anyway. I however record mostly classical music, and for that something like 18 to 20 bits really come useful to captur the music between clipping and noise floor of the equipment.
So is this box going to be good in that respect?
Gunnar
saw this comment just now (on the pen-recording list). some serious food for thought...
in response to this question:
"> I responded, but don't believe I've seen Len's response to a point he
> made-possibly Len or anyone else would be able to shed some light on hi
> s point- namely that the onboard electronics build into the microtrack
> would be inferior to the one build into the MIC 2496."
len wrote:
"We can't know for sure at this point, but our experience points to this:
First, based on the MicroTrack 24/96's retail and wholesale price point and
our estimate of the profit margin that M-Audio must receive from each sale,
we can determine the cost of manufacturing the device and how much of that
is allocated to the mic pre/A-to-D and phantom supply.
Based on its pricing, we expect that its mic pre-amp and A-to-D converters
will cost M-Audio roughly the same as the corresponding components in a a
mass market MD recorder or perhaps, if they took some care with the design,
a recent Sony DAT recorder. Its performance will likley be comparable too.
Since they included a true 48 Volt phanotm supply (how many milliamps per
channel it will be able to supply is still an unknown) , that costs money
too and eats into the bottom line of how much the entire device can cost.
Cost drives performance.
Second, this is new territory for M-Audio. They have never built a
portable, low voltage, battery-powered mic pre or mic pre/A-to-D, much less
a complete recorder. Their only mic pre/A-to-D products were the
Duo/Quattro and Mobile Pre USB. Only the Duo was a stand-alone device.
Every one of their mic pres to date has required AC power. Even the wall
warts had AC outputs. It's a challenge to design and build a low voltage
DC-powered one that has low noise and sounds good. For our Mic2496 for
example, we went through roughly six re-designs until we were satisfied.
MicroTrack 24/96 runs on a Li-ion or Li-Polymer battery. That's a low
voltage supply. To get that to supply a quiet 48 Volt Phantom Power supply
is not easy.
MicroTrack 24/96 also has a backlit LCD display. Displays are electrically
very noisy, as are microprocessors, display controllers, programmable gate
arrays, interface controllers and memories. The ideal solution for
controlling electrical noise is to heavily shield the noisy circuits, to
separate them in space, and to use more expensive design approaches like
multi-layer printed circuit boards with separate digital/analog/power ground
planes.. The MicroTrack 24/96, by having its mic pre-s and A-to-Ds in very
close proximity to the display and the processor/memory, will have a devil
of a time keeping that noise from getting into the mic pre. That alone
makes us pretty sure that the noise perrformance will not be up to Mic2496's
specs; it will more likely be closer to the 16-bit range than the 24-bit.
For comparison with recent products from other manufactureres., see the user
reports on the Marantz PMD670 and 671 recorders. The folks at Marantz are
pros at manufacturing professional portable audio recorders. -- they've been
doing it for years. Those units are much larger than the MicroTrack 24/96
and they're priced at double its retail (or more); their mic pre/A-to-D
performance are clearly not in the pro audio range.
So it's a pretty safe prediction that MicroTrack 24/96 won't have a pro
quality, low-noise, mic pre/A-to-D. But it'll likely be good enough for
most users who have also been happy with corresponding functions in their MD
and DAT recorders.
I hope that I'll be wrong and be pleasantly surprised. If so, that'll raise
the bar for all of the manufacturers and we'll be spurred to build a still
better sounding, smaller and hopefully less costly mic front end.
And then there'll be all the issues associated with the limited feature set
that MicroTrack 24/96 will have. One of PDAudio's great strengths is that
its feature set has grown and will continue to grow to meet its users'
needs.
Only PDAudio with Live2496 offers hot-swapping of recording media, allowing
essentially unlimited continuous recording time. Only PDAudio with Live2496
allows for timed recording duration and timed auto-start. Only PDAudio with
Movie 24/96 or Luci allows for mono recording. Only PDAudio with Luci
allows detailed audio editing and publishing directly to the Internet. Only
PDAudio with Luci or Vito Sound Editor allows for WAV file editing on your
PDA. Only PDAudio with various software applications allows recording to
the widest variety of sound file formats, including WAV, MP3, Ogg Vorbis,
MP2, and many others. Only PDAudio with Movie 24/96 or Luci provides time
stamping of cues, cue annotation and cue sheets.
Only PDAudio with Mic2496 allows for recording at 192 KS/s. Only PDAudio
with Mic2496 allows you to record while passing on a digital signal (optical
or coax) for a daisy chain of other digital tapers. Only PDAudio with
Mic2496 (with detent option) allows for a calibrated, repeatable gain
setting; necessary for precise acoustics measurements. Only PDAudio lets
you record directly from a coaxial or an optical digital audio feed provided
by others to your un-augmented PDA -- no mic pre or A-to-D is required.
PDAudio with Live 2496 will soon have record-time FLAC compression to
potentially double your storage space.
Only PDAudio can record digital audio to a PDA (e.g., HP iPAQ 3800-series)
commonly available for less than $100. PDAudio lets you use the highest
quality outboard mic pre/A-to-D using either coaxial or optical interfaces
so that you'll get the benefit of those 24-bit word widths and high sample
rates. PDAudio essentially has no limitations as to media size -- when 16
GB SD cards eventually become available, PDAudio will likely be able to use
them immediately. PDAudio will soon be able to use USB 2.0 hard drives for
24/96 and 24/192 with the new PDAs that provide that function. PDAudio is
already able to stream audio via Wi-Fi/802.11b directly to a network
drive -- no on-board mass storage is necessary, and when the higher speed
802.11g interfaces are available, PDAudio will likely be able to use them
immediately.
Only PDAudio has a full color display. Only PDAudio provides all of the
non-recording Pocket PC functions that a Windows Mobile PDA supplies,
including telephone, Video and MP3 player, Internet browsing, local area
network access, games, spreadsheets, word processing, GPS navigation and
many others. And the drivers for PDAudio are essentially open source (or
otherwise easily available) so that folks who want to write their own
applications and to add functions can.
MicroTrack 24/96 holds great promise for a certain market segment and we
expect to sell a bunch of them. We also expect that it will not displace
PDAudio and Mic2496."
QuoteSecond, this is new territory for M-Audio. They have never built a
portable, low voltage, battery-powered mic pre or mic pre/A-to-D, much less
a complete recorder. Their only mic pre/A-to-D products were the
Duo/Quattro and Mobile Pre USB. Only the Duo was a stand-alone device.
Every one of their mic pres to date has required AC power. Even the wall
warts had AC outputs. It's a challenge to design and build a low voltage
DC-powered one that has low noise and sounds good. For our Mic2496 for
example, we went through roughly six re-designs until we were satisfied
I can't even read the rest after that. If he can't bother to be informed on what he's talking about then why should I trust anything he says?
Quote from: Kohn Jelly on August 04, 2005, 11:58:27 AM
QuoteSecond, this is new territory for M-Audio. They have never built a
portable, low voltage, battery-powered mic pre or mic pre/A-to-D, much less
a complete recorder. Their only mic pre/A-to-D products were the
Duo/Quattro and Mobile Pre USB. Only the Duo was a stand-alone device.
Every one of their mic pres to date has required AC power. Even the wall
warts had AC outputs. It's a challenge to design and build a low voltage
DC-powered one that has low noise and sounds good. For our Mic2496 for
example, we went through roughly six re-designs until we were satisfied
I can't even read the rest after that. If he can't bother to be informed on what he's talking about then why should I trust anything he says?
I dont care for len personally but he makes some logical points. cost does drive performance for sure, in most cases. the thing about it filling a niche for MDers seems logical too. I hope it is outstanding, but I gotta wonder where they cut corners. technology is costly/ though if it performs on the level of the JB3 better, thats outstanding.
i find it amusing that his response was more or less a commercial for PDAudio and the mic2496 he sells.
Quote from: macdaddy on August 04, 2005, 11:54:40 AM
Only PDAudio with Mic2496 allows for recording at 192 KS/s. Only PDAudio
with Mic2496 allows you to record while passing on a digital signal (optical
or coax) for a daisy chain of other digital tapers.
I guess he doesnt consider the 722/744 competition...
Quote from: Ed. on August 04, 2005, 12:14:48 PM
i find it amusing that his response was more or less a commercial for PDAudio and the mic2496 he sells.
me too ;D
the best commercial the guy could have is if he treated his friggin customers with respect instead of acting like he shouldnt be bothered. ::)
Quote from: Ed. on August 04, 2005, 12:14:48 PM
i find it amusing that his response was more or less a commercial for PDAudio and the mic2496 he sells.
yeah, I felt like I was listening to an infomercial. Personally, I just want this to be as reliable as a jb3 with a digital signal and give me those 24 bits I've been craving. I can't wait to hear the first impressions.
Quote from: Ed. on August 04, 2005, 12:14:48 PM
i find it amusing that his response was more or less a commercial for PDAudio and the mic2496 he sells.
What gave you that idea???
Oh, the fact that the last several paragraphs all started with ONLY THE PDADUIO....
i wasnt trying to start a flame fest - i was simply trying to bring additional information and another perspective to light...
Quote from: macdaddy on August 04, 2005, 12:27:40 PM
i wasnt trying to start a flame fest - i was simply trying to bring additional information and another perspective to light...
Sorry mac, inappropriate on my part. The name len/core sounds though inspires flames on its own.
Quote from: macdaddy on August 04, 2005, 12:27:40 PM
i wasnt trying to start a flame fest - i was simply trying to bring additional information and another perspective to light...
didnt think you were...honestly though, Len makes the same comments that I have in the back of my mind....I look at the size of the Maudio and I have a hard time believing that it will perform as this giant killer given that at the sale price of $399...lets assume that they get a 20% margin...so they sell these to retailers at $299...that isnt alot of money to recoup the costs of materials and manufacturing...much less the sunk r&d costs and overhead contribution that the product probably has to contribute to.
This being said, I am absolutely hopeful that they have "redesigned the wheel" so to speak with some new ingenious way to do things....guess we will have to wait and see when it comes out....
I've never viewed it as a giant killer, but as an upgrade/replacement for the JB3. No dilusions of it being anywhere near the 722/744 at 5X's+ the cost. As long as the digi in is decent, and I can use it to stealth, all is good with me. I don't have a $$$$$ playback system, but can play back 24/96 DVD's.
yeah, i didn't mean to flame, but come on, he said PDAudio like 50 times.
he also brings up good points as well, but the jb3 is far from being pro gear, but it suits many of our needs perfectly. like everyone else has said, if it can do what the jb3 does, plus solid state media, plus 24/96 successfully, then i think a lot of us have found our future recorder. no its not a 722/44t, but many of us don't need that, or don't have the cash sitting around to fund one. personally, i'm not expecting this to compete with the pro 24bit recorders at all, just expecting it to accept the 24bit signal my v3 sends it.
Just another sales pitch from a company that is flakey to begin with ...
I have faith in M-Audio. I am sure they will please. M-Auidio has a bigger budget and can recover the cost of R&D, etc much faster than that half assed PD-Audio crap. I do find it funny that Len goes on and on about the PD-Audio rig and how it can do all these different things. I have only seen a handful of successful 2496 recordings on one, and not a single 24/192 recording. As far as I know there are still no successful Windows drivers for this card. Whats it been 2-3 years? The funny thing is, when you add up all the shit that is required to run the PDAudio 'forever' you are in the price range for a 722. M-Audio has a much bigger fan base, treats their customers with respect, and has a larger market share when it comes to consumer/pro audio. They will most certainly be able to offset any losses within the first few weeks of this things release. I am looking forward to it. I am not on a list for one yet though. I'm gonna wait til it hits the street and see everyones review of it, but for $400-$500 this thing is a no brainer for me. I can personally justify 3 or 4 2gig CF cards too. I can finally ditch the bigass laptop. I am still also courting the idea for a 744 as well though. Someone needs to hurry up and put one in the Yard Sale. ;D I am in no rush. Decisions. Decisions.
QuoteAs long as the digi in is decent, and I can use it to stealth, all is good with me.
That's the thing with the digi in - it either works or it doesn't - there's no margin for recording 1s and 0s. Can't really define it as decent. ;)
Well, maybe a resampled digi in is considered "decent" to a lot of people, but I'd consider that not working. ;D
Quote from: nickgregory on August 04, 2005, 12:32:39 PM
I look at the size of the Maudio and I have a hard time believing that it will perform as this giant killer given that at the sale price of $399
I'll echo what has been said already -- I don't think any of the folks who are so excited about the MicroTracker believe it will be a giant killer. I think the great hope is that this will become a modern replacement to the Sony portable DAT. That is, it will be a good unit to capture digital bits, particularly 24-bit digital bits. And it can function as a decent stealth recorder. I'm sure lots of folks will want to stealth only with the Microtracker if it is any good at all, just like there are plenty of people who stealth with nothing but a D8. But many other stealthers can still use it paired with a modSBM1 to make high quality 16-bit recordings, without (hopefully) the finickyness of DAT decks or the fragility of optical cables (not to mention the size of the JB3). If the line-in is any good, a 24-bit DPA 4061> DPA MMA6000> Microtracker could be a very nice, high end, and compact stealth setup.
And many other folks like me will want to run the microtrack as a bit capture device. I would never think that the microtrack would stand up to the 722, but a V3>microtrack might certainly stand up to it, and may well be better to some ears. It might stack up as well as V2>722, esp depending on your tastes, and would be smaller and cheaper. Bottom line, the microtracker I don't think is expected to be a giant killer on its own, but it stands a chance to really open up the field of 24-bit taping. 24-bit stealth taping, and 24-bit taping with a MMe, a V3, a modUA5, or a AD2k+, without the need for a laptop. That to me is pretty exciting, since it may well mean that 24-bit taping becomes the typical standard, not just done by the few with a 722 or the few that have the stomach to figure out how to reliably record 24 bit on a laptop or PDA.
Len makes a basic mistake in that this is not M-Audios first portable DC mic pre/phantom device.
their FW series units are DC powered.
their Recording Guitarist Black-box has everything but DC power(its bigger than the Micro-Track but it has a hell of alot more features).
while I agree that the phantom/pre/adc will not be the best you can get, there has to be tradeoffs in relation to the size of the unit vs cost. I wont be using the phantom/pre/adc, I have a V3 to handle all of that...I just want this as a cheap/small 24 bit solid-state dat replacement and I honestly believe this will be a solid unit for that purpose.
this is a pro-sumer device, no one should be expecting this to be a serious competitor to the 722/744, CantarX, Xeva, etc...it's not and doesnt pretend to be.
Quote from: Todd R on August 04, 2005, 01:20:11 PM
I would never think that the microtrack would stand up to the 722, but a V3>microtrack might certainly stand up to it, and may well be better to some ears. It might stack up as well as V2>722, esp depending on your tastes, and would be smaller and cheaper.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to V3>microtrack if it works like I hope after ACL fest.
Quote from: Todd R on August 04, 2005, 01:20:11 PM
That to me is pretty exciting, since it may well mean that 24-bit taping becomes the typical standard, not just done by the few with a 722 or the few that have the stomach to figure out how to reliably record 24 bit on a laptop or PDA.
apologies if I came off as some 722 snob...not the case at all....I am like most in that the more 24 bit recordings the better...and honestly if this thing works as billed, I can see myself getting one for stealth situations. Only point I was trying to make is that for it to even be the modern day DAT replacement, at the price point it is at....I am guessing either corners were cut, which may not affect anything that is in a tapers feature set, or they found a new way to do things...
but I was definitely not disparaging the unit or folks that intend to get one...just a general comment.
No problem Nick, I didn't take you as a 722 snob, but I was wondering if you somehow thought folks were thinking that the microtrack in some way fit the same niche as the 722.
At any rate, I'm not sure this needs to be cutting corners to reach the level of a Sony portable, even at $399. The sony portables were designed awhile ago when this type of audio electronics were not in widespread use -- the ICs and esp very large scale microcontroller integrated circuits it used were not only new to portable audio, they were a somewhat new technology overall and were relatively expensive no matter what the application. The guts of the Sony DAT used very small scale and very precise mechanics and metal work in the transports, and all that R&D and production capability was only used for the small market portable DAT recorders. Compare that to today when A/D codec chips and other ICs that the MT uses are in widespread use and are cheap. The transport has been replaced by a Compact Flash card and associated electronics that have markets in the hundreds of millions of units and are thus incredibly cheap compared to a DAT transport. Plus add to that the fact that the high end mic preamp components (eg op amps) and A/D encoder chips in the days of the Sony portables are now considered old school and out of date. Meaning the bottom line, cheap A/D codec chips of today are better than the expensive, high end ones of 10 years ago (probably more like 12-15 since the D100/M1 was designed). All of which may well enable M-Audio to make a recorder with a front-end as nice as an M1 for half the cost. It may well not be that good, but I think there is room in the price to accomplish it.
Quote from: Todd R on August 04, 2005, 02:25:56 PM
I was wondering if you somehow thought folks were thinking that the microtrack in some way fit the same niche as the 722.
no, not at all...in hindsight the use of the term giant killer probably didnt do the best job of conveying what I was trying to say....by giant killer, I was referring to it that it would have the same impact on our market as the JB3 did...knowing that what this box has to do is a bit more complex than the JB3.
Interesting input on the electronics though...never considered that perspective though you would think I would have given the fact I am working around product designs every day that are integrating cheaper/faster/more durable components...
as stated before though I have nothing buy high hopes for this unit...at an absolute minimum, it means more 24 bit tapes out there for us all to enjoy!
well said todd!
yes, i am just hoping the digi-in works as it would with a DAT. V3>MTR will rule!
Quote from: nic on August 04, 2005, 01:22:02 PM
Len makes a basic mistake in that this is not M-Audios first portable DC mic pre/phantom device.
<cut>
this is a pro-sumer device, no one should be expecting this to be a serious competitor to the 722/744, CantarX, Xeva, etc...it's not and doesnt pretend to be.
First Len is an idiot. Basically his take has always been if you don't buy his gear, you're buying crap. But usually it's the other way around.
Second, I've never seen the Deva referred to as the Xeva. I'll have to remember that one. ;D
Quote from: wbrisette on August 04, 2005, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: nic on August 04, 2005, 01:22:02 PM
Len makes a basic mistake in that this is not M-Audios first portable DC mic pre/phantom device.
<cut>
this is a pro-sumer device, no one should be expecting this to be a serious competitor to the 722/744, CantarX, Xeva, etc...it's not and doesnt pretend to be.
First Len is an idiot. Basically his take has always been if you don't buy his gear, you're buying crap. But usually it's the other way around.
Second, I've never seen the Deva referred to as the Xeva. I'll have to remember that one. ;D
:P
Quote from: wbrisette on August 04, 2005, 02:51:35 PM
Second, I've never seen the Deva referred to as the Xeva. I'll have to remember that one. ;D
It's a custom piece only available for Warrior Princesses. :P
Quote from: greenone on August 04, 2005, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: wbrisette on August 04, 2005, 02:51:35 PM
Second, I've never seen the Deva referred to as the Xeva. I'll have to remember that one. ;D
It's a custom piece only available for Warrior Princesses. :P
;
D
hoping this thing pans out, i NEED to jump into 24-bit, but im letting ya'll be the guinea pigs
len's sanctimonius bullshit makes my blood boil. there's a reson i unsubscribed to dat heads 8 years ago!
yeah i read len's whole salespitch there and it's a lot of crap. i like how he talks about all the great things pdaudio will be able to do soon and speculates on all the new technologies it will be able to use, when they've had so many problems as it is getting it to work as it should and still haven't achieved all of their goals. while i applaud len and coresound for being one company that is truly focused on the taper market segment, especially in product development...i don't find his contributions to be all that spectacular.
Quote from: Todd R on August 04, 2005, 01:20:11 PM
I'll echo what has been said already -- I don't think any of the folks who are so excited about the MicroTracker believe it will be a giant killer. I think the great hope is that this will become a modern replacement to the Sony portable DAT. That is, it will be a good unit to capture digital bits, particularly 24-bit digital bits. And it can function as a decent stealth recorder. I'm sure lots of folks will want to stealth only with the Microtracker if it is any good at all, just like there are plenty of people who stealth with nothing but a D8. But many other stealthers can still use it paired with a modSBM1 to make high quality 16-bit recordings, without (hopefully) the finickyness of DAT decks or the fragility of optical cables (not to mention the size of the JB3). If the line-in is any good, a 24-bit DPA 4061> DPA MMA6000> Microtracker could be a very nice, high end, and compact stealth setup.
And many other folks like me will want to run the microtrack as a bit capture device. I would never think that the microtrack would stand up to the 722, but a V3>microtrack might certainly stand up to it, and may well be better to some ears. It might stack up as well as V2>722, esp depending on your tastes, and would be smaller and cheaper. Bottom line, the microtracker I don't think is expected to be a giant killer on its own, but it stands a chance to really open up the field of 24-bit taping. 24-bit stealth taping, and 24-bit taping with a MMe, a V3, a modUA5, or a AD2k+, without the need for a laptop. That to me is pretty exciting, since it may well mean that 24-bit taping becomes the typical standard, not just done by the few with a 722 or the few that have the stomach to figure out how to reliably record 24 bit on a laptop or PDA.
well said todd -- i see the microtracker in the same light, as a bit-capturing replacement for the portable dat decks. running it along side a v3 etc. will allow me to capture 24/96 recordings in a small, tight little package (and for me, seeing off the real-time transfers -- finally!). i'm looking forward to it's release.
I wrote M-Audio's tech dept about the 2gb limit on file size. This is the response I got back from them.
1.We'll have full audio specs posted soon.
2.I believe the total amount of files allowed on one piece of media is
9,999.
3.There is no limit to the size of CF or Microdrive that you can use
with the product. We will make a list of approved media and ones that
we know to have issues upon release.
The battery is an internal lithium ion. It can be charged via USB from
the computer or from the included power supply. No other batteries can
be used.
4.capable of 24/96 recording. However, its 24/96 recording is done as
PCM Wav files; not as MP3 format. For MP3 format, it is limited to 44.1k
or 48k recording.
5.Battery charging time is unknown at this time.
Product has a tentative ship date of early SEPT.
Does not have these features:
Will it feature an 'autopause' option
That is will it pause after a
track is played and cue the next track?
Will it feature some sort of track list or folder menu so that you
can establish a sequence of tracks to be played?
Is it possible to attach a footswitch to it for play/stop function?
Did he answer my question? I don't think so.
Quote from: anhisr on August 05, 2005, 12:50:09 PM
I wrote M-Audio's tech dept about the 2gb limit on file size. This is the response I got back from them.
1.We'll have full audio specs posted soon.
2.I believe the total amount of files allowed on one piece of media is
9,999.
3.There is no limit to the size of CF or Microdrive that you can use
with the product. We will make a list of approved media and ones that
we know to have issues upon release.
The battery is an internal lithium ion. It can be charged via USB from
the computer or from the included power supply. No other batteries can
be used.
4.capable of 24/96 recording. However, its 24/96 recording is done as
PCM Wav files; not as MP3 format. For MP3 format, it is limited to 44.1k
or 48k recording.
5.Battery charging time is unknown at this time.
Product has a tentative ship date of early SEPT.
Does not have these features:
Will it feature an 'autopause' option
That is will it pause after a
track is played and cue the next track?
Will it feature some sort of track list or folder menu so that you
can establish a sequence of tracks to be played?
Is it possible to attach a footswitch to it for play/stop function?
Did he answer my question? I don't think so.
no mp3 24 bits??were fucked.
Not sure of the design on the wall-wart for this thing, but a battery can be used. If anything you could do 12v SLA> power inverter (12vDC>120vAC) > wall-wart > MTracker. I'm sure there is a better solution as well...
As for a remote, that would be a nice addition, something similar to the D100/M1 remote with record button and meters...
I'm looking forward to seeing this beeyatchie in action!!!
Terry
Quote from: anhisr on August 05, 2005, 12:50:09 PM
The battery is an internal lithium ion. It can be charged via USB from
the computer or from the included power supply. No other batteries can
be used.
I just spoke with the Tekkeon people on the phone, they do make a mini-USB
adapter for their MyPowerAll battery (and are sending me one to try out).
It has issues with some cell phones that use a non-standard USB charging
mechanism, so it remains to be seen if it will work on the MicroTrack.
They also gave me the mAh ratings at various voltages for this battery,
which annoyingly are not in any of the manuels nor on the web site.
At 5V it should be good for 7200 mAh.
Jeff
Quote from: BigRay on August 05, 2005, 12:53:01 PM
no mp3 24 bits??were fucked.
Joking, right? ???
24-bit FLAC would be awesome; 2GB CF would suffice in trade for some battery time.
Quote from: udovdh on August 05, 2005, 01:59:20 PM
Quote from: BigRay on August 05, 2005, 12:53:01 PM
no mp3 24 bits??were fucked.
Joking, right? ???
24-bit FLAC would be awesome; 2GB CF would suffice in trade for some battery time.
LMAO. yes buddy!
+T
sweet! getting psyched ;D
the bumblebee vrbox is gonna come in REAL handy w/ this IMO :)
The MicroTrack formats large media with FAT32.
The largest file you can record with FAT32 formatted media is 2GB.
Once you've reached that limit, you must start a new recording.
SO exited! Does anyone know dealers/adresses of company selling this unit in Europe?
QuoteSO exited! Does anyone know dealers/adresses of company selling this unit in Europe?
well, i can found this
http://www.musicians-gear.com/
http://www.musik-service.de/ProduX/Recording/Recorder/MAudio_Micro_Track_2496.htm
http://www.audio-electric-shop.de/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=5338
http://www.synopsis-media.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1764
http://www.musicstorekoeln.de/en/global/0_0_G_0_PCM0004750-000/0/0/0/detail/musicstore.html
all goes around 440-499€ , i'm planning to catch an USA dealer that are around 360-399$ (290-350€).
Paying tax and shipment and still the USA dealers are better
If you plan to order the MicroTrack in germany I´d suggest Thomann Musikhaus (http://www.thomann.de/). It is a very reliable retailer which offers a great service. Including an extended 36 month guarantee and a cheap shipping flat rate. They have the MT for 444 €.
http://www.thomann.de/smb_suche.html?SUBJECT=KOMFORTSUCHE&PAGE=1&SEITE=1&MAINPAGE=1&SUCHBEGRIFF=microtrack
The price varies slightly depending on which country you´re ordering from.
The cheapest I've found in Europe was www.rockshop.de/shop . They have it listed for 429 euros. Found them when I was looking for a UA-5 recently (149e). Fast delivery and good service based on that experience.
Other than that I can also recommend thomann.de . Have ordered lots of stuff from them, mainly guitar related gear.
Are you guys from Germany?
thanks for the responces, i am from holland, ordering from Germany sounds fine :-)
but once you hit the 2gb limit you are screwed.
not if it starts a seamless track automatiucally or maunally
still blows tho :(
I wonder if the Microtrack can play back files larger than 2GB. If it can, then we might be able to transfer everything the old fashioned way through the coax-out and into the soundcard. Granted, not the ideal solution but it could work.
Quote from: Bean on August 07, 2005, 11:29:36 AM
not if it starts a seamless track automatiucally or maunally
still blows tho :(
FAT32 doesn't support files over 2gb. And there's no digital out over coax - that's an input only.
Quote from: Kohn Jelly on August 07, 2005, 12:19:12 PM
FAT32 doesn't support files over 2gb. And there's no digital out over coax - that's an input only.
well, thats cool, cause alot of the bigger editing programs ala wavelab/soundforge dont play nicely w/ files over 2GB anyway, BUT if it doesnt have a seamless auto split function or something, or at least a manual 'fast forward' button ala the jb3, so a seamless track can be started, i am gonna keep looking for a diff 24-bit recorder, prolly the pmd-671 if this doesnt pan out!
Quotewell, thats cool, cause alot of the bigger editing programs ala wavelab/soundforge dont play nicely w/ files over 2GB anyway, BUT if it doesnt have a seamless auto split function or something, or at least a manual 'fast forward' button ala the jb3, so a seamless track can be started, i am gonna keep looking for a diff 24-bit recorder, prolly the pmd-671 if this doesnt pan out!
It was already posted that they're working on an auto-split feature. It may even be finished before it ships, but if not it'll be soon after.
The issue is no different than dealing with SF. Prior to using Wave lab the 2GB issue was always looming. Just gonna take some taper-know-how to know when to go for the "Flip" so to speak. Granted I have many recordings where by the time the "flip" was looming I had too many beers and it wasnt the smoothest transition but you work with what you got.
since wavelab its set it and forget it but if they gonna work onthe auto split then a few shows without it wont be a big deal. Just run the lappy as well in case the beers get to ya :)
It appears the MicroTrack starts shipping in a week. :) According to www.mtlc.net,
"Great News! The M Audio Micro Track 2496 is scheduled to start shipping from M Audio on August 15th! Pre-order now for free upgraded shipping as soon as our first shipment arrives!"
I was also told by another online vendor that the MicroTrack starts shipping mid-August.
Here's a question.. I have a 4GB Hitachi Microdrive that I ripped out of a Creative muvo2 mp3 player a year ago. I've been using it with my Canon Digital Rebel camera with no problems, other than it's noticeably slower saving photos to the microdrive than a CompactFlash card. Will my 4GB microdrive be too slow for use with the MicroTrack? Or should I consider spending the extra $$ on a 4GB CompactFlash card instead?
Just pre-ordered mine through www.djmart.com Their price is $399.99, but you'll get 10% off during checkout using the coupon code AUGUST10. Total including shipping was $368.00 DJMart also has a "negotiate your price" option, but didn't bother trying it to see if I could get the price down even more. $360 with the 10% off coupon code is a pretty good deal already. I can't see them going much lower than that, but I'd be curious if anyone does get a better price through negotiation. DJMart expects to receive their first shipment within the next couple weeks.
QuoteWill my 4GB microdrive be too slow for use with the MicroTrack?
Nope.
QuoteOr should I consider spending the extra $$ on a 4GB CompactFlash card instead?
I think you should anyway, as there are many downsides to going with a microdrive. With CF cards you don't need to worry at all about heat or vibrations, which is why many people are considering the MicroTrack. However, until CF drops to a price point you're more comfortable with the microdrive will work just fine.
Quote from: desertsky on August 07, 2005, 05:05:32 PM
It appears the MicroTrack starts shipping in a week. :) According to www.mtlc.net,
"Great News! The M Audio Micro Track 2496 is scheduled to start shipping from M Audio on August 15th! Pre-order now for free upgraded shipping as soon as our first shipment arrives!"
i'll believe it when i see it.
Quote from: Kohn Jelly on August 07, 2005, 06:57:49 PM
I think you should anyway, as there are many downsides to going with a microdrive. With CF cards you don't need to worry at all about heat or vibrations, which is why many people are considering the MicroTrack. However, until CF drops to a price point you're more comfortable with the microdrive will work just fine.
Thanks for the advice. I'll use the MicroTrack with the 4GB microdrive for awhile and see how it goes. Then purchase a 4GB CompactFlash later on once the prices of 4GB cards have come down a bit more.
I was looking at the dimensions of the MicroTrack on the M-Audio website. It's about the same size as many cellphones. So I was thinking... For stealth taping, one could probably place the MicroTrack in a leather belt-clip cellphone holster and walk right into a venue past security with it clipped onto your belt. Unless they examine closely, security will think it's a cellphone. Once I get my MicroTrack, I'll look for a leather cellphone holster that's the right size. What would really be cool is if some enterprising Ebay seller could create a plastic clip-on phonepad for the MicroTrack to give it even more the appearance of a cellphone. Stick the MicroTrack with fake phonepad in a belt holster and you're good to go. No need to even attempt hiding it.
Quote from: desertsky on August 07, 2005, 08:28:11 PM
I was looking at the dimensions of the MicroTrack on the M-Audio website. It's about the same size as many cellphones. So I was thinking... For stealth taping, one could probably place the MicroTrack in a leather belt-clip cellphone holster and walk right into a venue past security with it clipped onto your belt. Unless they examine closely, security will think it's a cellphone. Once I get my MicroTrack, I'll look for a leather cellphone holster that's the right size. What would really be cool is if some enterprising Ebay seller could create a plastic clip-on phonepad for the MicroTrack to give it even more the appearance of a cellphone. Stick the MicroTrack with fake phonepad in a belt holster and you're good to go. No need to even attempt hiding it.
Yeah, but what am I going to tell them my V3 is? The Verizon Satellite uplink? ;D
Hope I will be able to go line-in with an MMA6000 and get decent A/D from the Microtrack, even with that weird set of 1/4" plugs I'll need to do it.
Jeff
And the mics in your hat are really a stereo hands free kit. ;D
i doubt any of us will have any trouble stealthing it, considering the sizes of things stealthed in the past. to me, that isn't a worry at all.
I'm going to fold mine up inside a ladies' walllet. :)
(http://a1480.g.akamaitech.net/f/1480/124/4h/images.ebags.com/images/Products/8100_sq250.jpg)
Not sure if this has been posted yet - you can download a small video where a M-Audio representative explains the features of the MicroTrack on the actual device. No new info whatsoever but I found it nice to watch.
http://sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2287#
Quote from: bartek on August 09, 2005, 06:07:17 PM
Not sure if this has been posted yet - you can download a small video where a M-Audio representative explains the features of the MicroTrack on the actual device. No new info whatsoever but I found it nice to watch.
http://sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2287#
Very, very cool - and proof this thing actually exists ;)
The new product page for the MicroTrack on M-Audio's website now has screenshots of the menus.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html
Someone from DJMart called me today regarding my MicroTrack pre-order. He told me they expect to receive their first shipment within 2 weeks. DJMart is getting 40 units in their initial shipment. I'm #19 on the list.
Quote from: bartek on August 09, 2005, 06:07:17 PM
Not sure if this has been posted yet - you can download a small video where a M-Audio representative explains the features of the MicroTrack on the actual device. No new info whatsoever but I found it nice to watch.
http://sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2287#
Humurous to watch the video and see that when he goes to show the quarter-inch mic inputs, you can see right through the unit and out the rca jacks on the other side. Demo unit with no guts inside? Probably so...
dB-
I just want to know how you get the title "chief boffin".
QuoteHumurous to watch the video and see that when he goes to show the quarter-inch mic inputs, you can see right through the unit and out the rca jacks on the other side. Demo unit with no guts inside? Probably so...
dB-
Uh, no. Look again, you can't see through the unit. All you can see is a reflection of light from a piece of metal at the back of the 1/4" jack. That's why you don't see through it when he turns it around to show the RCA jacks.
Plus it has a working LCD. Somehow I doubt they'd load a dummy unit with a working LCD...
so if you use this thing you wouldnt need to use a Ps-2??
Does anyone know about that 5V feed at the 1/8"jack?
Can the 5V be switched independently from the actual audio source?
Or is the 5V always present?
(if the 1/8"mic in is unusable with consumer line levels, I could at least use the 5V power source...)
Quote from: raoulduke on August 10, 2005, 02:17:16 AM
do y'all have a preferred compact flash card reader ?
My laptop has USB 1.1 and the small firewire (ILink) port with no power, with USB 1.1 the transfers went pretty slow for GB sizes either with USB or with a PCMCIA card adapter, but the only firewire reader I could find needed the full size 1394 connector. I recently got the Addonics Mini Digidrive, which comes with a breakout cable that takes 1394 to an ILink and USB termination, the USB powers the card reader and the mini-firewire gives great transfer speeds. Since I don't leave it in place on the computer for long (and I have several unused USB ports on it in any case), this was a good solution for me.
Jeff
Quote from: desertsky on August 09, 2005, 07:08:22 PM
The new product page for the MicroTrack on M-Audio's website now has screenshots of the menus.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html
Looks like the recordings are saved as "file001.wav". One thing I'll miss about the JB3...the recording name standard where it saves as the date.
QuoteLooks like the recordings are saved as "file001.wav". One thing I'll miss about the JB3...the recording name standard where it saves as the date.
More than likely it'll have a creation date on it, though.
Quote from: Kohn Jelly on August 10, 2005, 09:20:20 AM
More than likely it'll have a creation date on it, though.
I think you're right, since there's a "Setup Time & Date" option in the menu. No reason to do that if it's not stamping the files.
Oh man that is soo cool. I think I'm gonna bite. Accepts microdrives and Hitachi now has 6gig ones for around $250. Pick up and couple of those and an external battery and be good to go for 2496.
shipping today
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 10, 2005, 10:11:16 AM
Quote from: John R on August 10, 2005, 10:07:56 AM
shipping today
EXCUSE ME, WHAT????
not. :-* i knew that would get a rise pretty quick. so much chatter about this thing, i'm hoping everytime is see a 'new' post indicator, it's actually frank sayiing he received his shipment
Quote from: John R on August 10, 2005, 10:15:19 AM
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 10, 2005, 10:11:16 AM
Quote from: John R on August 10, 2005, 10:07:56 AM
shipping today
EXCUSE ME, WHAT????
not. :-* i knew that would get a rise pretty quick. so much chatter about this thing, i'm hoping everytime is see a 'new' post indicator, it's actually frank sayiing he received his shipment
that is a very evil trick....but comical indeed...+t! got my hopes up for sure!
Hilarious...took four minutes for someone to jump on that. ;D
Of course it did! +T to you for getting me on that one. I'm just heading to Portland in a few hours and would love to be able to walk in to Cascade and walk out with a new toy!
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 10, 2005, 10:22:54 AM
Of course it did! +T to you for getting me on that one. I'm just heading to Portland in a few hours and would love to be able to walk in to Cascade and walk out with a new toy!
yeah, i'm hoping to have it for four corners folk fest on labor day, but don't have high hopes. maybe two weeks later for blues and brews. but i'm looking to pull the trigger on a da-r1000, so at least i'll have new toys for these shows.
the only bad thing about this unit, is that I can just see myself dumping a ton of money into a whole new playback system once I start doing 24 bit.
I'm debating whether to even start recording at 24 bit, actually...I might just archive the raw 24 bit files until I get a system that can handle them. Hell, my playback system is barely 16 bit. :P
BTW, check it out - 4GB CF for $182 shipped:
http://dealmac.com/deals/Kingston-4-GB-Elite-Pro-Compact-Flash-Card-for-182-shipped-after-rebate/93103.html
Quote from: greenone on August 10, 2005, 11:31:56 AM
BTW, check it out - 4GB CF for $182 shipped:
http://dealmac.com/deals/Kingston-4-GB-Elite-Pro-Compact-Flash-Card-for-182-shipped-after-rebate/93103.html
Yeah, that was in the Retail Forum. Jumped on that. Thanks for lookin out Dave!
Quote from: martin on August 10, 2005, 09:55:29 AM
Oh man that is soo cool. I think I'm gonna bite. Accepts microdrives and Hitachi now has 6gig ones for around $250. Pick up and couple of those and an external battery and be good to go for 2496.
be careful going with microdrives and their higher susceptibility to failure...you may want to do some reading into them before you drop that kind of cash on media. most pro photogs will not use microdrives for this reason...
Quote from: desertsky on August 07, 2005, 05:38:41 PM
Just pre-ordered mine through www.djmart.com Their price is $399.99, but you'll get 10% off during checkout using the coupon code AUGUST10. Total including shipping was $368.00 DJMart also has a "negotiate your price" option, but didn't bother trying it to see if I could get the price down even more. $360 with the 10% off coupon code is a pretty good deal already. I can't see them going much lower than that, but I'd be curious if anyone does get a better price through negotiation. DJMart expects to receive their first shipment within the next couple weeks.
Well, I've just jumped on the bandwagon as well. Hopefully mine will be in the first batch to ship as well. (I figured that all of our normal vendors waiting lists are full and this seemed like a great deal)
Thanks for the link +T
fwiw i think franks list at cascademedia still has room on it...he made it sound like he was getting a big old shipment and had room for more on the list.
Quote from: Freelunch on August 10, 2005, 12:04:43 PM
Quote from: Ed. on August 08, 2005, 12:29:22 PM
i doubt any of us will have any trouble stealthing it, considering the sizes of things stealthed in the past. to me, that isn't a worry at all.
I understand that House of Blues wands everyone and is tough to stealth.
It's not just the size of the gear that matters, it's also whether it sets off the metal detectors. Some of these new devices like the R1 don't set them off.
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 10, 2005, 01:10:25 PM
fwiw i think franks list at cascademedia still has room on it...he made it sound like he was getting a big old shipment and had room for more on the list.
Ahh crap!!! That's what I get for playing the guessing game. It was definately an impulse buy. I don't do that very often.
That's why you should always call before ordering
So how are we going to short hand this device for the recording info
Quote from: anhisr on August 10, 2005, 01:46:16 PM
So how are we going to short hand this device for the recording info
until somebody has one in hand, "vaporware"
MT
MA-MT
MT 24/96
PS: I think we're way past the vaporware stage on this one.
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 10, 2005, 02:26:26 PM
PS: I think we're way past the vaporware stage on this one.
probably...i just haven't gotten past my immature smart-ass stage yet.
That's probably true for all of us. ;)
I'm a bit leery of using MT 24/96, though I realize MicroTrack 24/96 is its name. Since I'll probably be using it as 16/44, 24/44, or 24/48, I think it will just confuse the masses if my source line includes MT 24/96.
How about MAMT?
M-Audio MicroTrack
MAMT it shall be. ;D
I'll probably just call it MicroTrack...that is, once all you guinea pigs have worked the bugs out of the beta first release. ;)
Quote from: Freelunch on August 10, 2005, 12:04:43 PM
I understand that House of Blues wands everyone and is tough to stealth.
Using the Jedi minds tricks on the security seems to work just fine ;D
Actually I was at a HOB the weekend before last and there were two girls in front of me, trying to bring in a total of 5 cameras between them. The security guy was so excited with his find that he turned to me and said "I hit the mother load!" and gave me a half-hearted search and quick wand. Got in no problem... So just have someone setup decoys in front of you ;)
Later,
pjdavep
Quote from: pjdavep on August 10, 2005, 03:35:58 PM
Quote from: Freelunch on August 10, 2005, 12:04:43 PM
I understand that House of Blues wands everyone and is tough to stealth.
Using the Jedi minds tricks on the security seems to work just fine ;D
Actually I was at a HOB the weekend before last and there were two girls in front of me, trying to bring in a total of 5 cameras between them. The security guy was so excited with his find that he turned to me and said "I hit the mother load!" and gave me a half-hearted search and quick wand. Got in no problem... So just have someone setup decoys in front of you ;)
Later,
pjdavep
Two cameras I understand, for 3-D, but five? Are the video folks doing surround-sound now? :o
Jeff
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 10, 2005, 11:47:04 AM
Quote from: greenone on August 10, 2005, 11:31:56 AM
BTW, check it out - 4GB CF for $182 shipped:
http://dealmac.com/deals/Kingston-4-GB-Elite-Pro-Compact-Flash-Card-for-182-shipped-after-rebate/93103.html
Yeah, that was in the Retail Forum. Jumped on that. Thanks for lookin out Dave!
It sure would suck if this CF card ended up on M-Audio's "problematic" CF card list. I wish they'd release the list of tested/approved CF cards so I can be prepared w/media in hand when the device arrives. That's the only thing holding me back from jumping on this deal.
Later,
pjdavep
Quote from: WiFiJeff on August 10, 2005, 03:45:39 PM
Two cameras I understand, for 3-D, but five? Are the video folks doing surround-sound now? :o
Jeff
It was two Japenese girls and they were all still cameras...all lower/mid cost models. I really have no idea what they were thinking, but it was pretty amusing for us!
Later,
pjdavep
QuoteSo how are we going to short hand this device for the recording info
MicroTrack
It's not like it's a huge word or anything. ;)
the big question is, who on the waiting list will be sending their unit to Leggeddy for VR box development.
Quote from: Cooker on August 10, 2005, 04:30:06 PM
the big question is, who on the waiting list will be sending their unit to Leggeddy for VR box development.
I don't think that its going to be all that difficult. They were using a standard usb wallwart to power the bench models I saw.
Quote from: greenone on August 10, 2005, 03:24:06 PM
I'll probably just call it MicroTrack...that is, once all you guinea pigs have worked the bugs out of the beta first release. ;)
I'll probably use "MAM", short for M-Audio Microtracker, although there could be trouble if there are women in the TS: "Nice MAMs" ***slap***
Terry
its been a busy few days and I havent had a chance to check in on this thread....
I was just speaking with our M/Audio Rep and he says shipping willl hopefully still be at the end of the month. There is absolutely no product shipping Aug 15th.
We also still have plenty of room on our list if you want to get in on our initial order. Email or PM for more details. And for those of you in Europe, we are happy to ship to you as well. Again, email or PM for more info.
That product video from summer NAMM is pretty entertaining huh? that guy is the head product specialist for the Microtrack.
Hope everyone is having a good month.
Frank
thanks for checkin in frank, +T
Quote from: anhisr on August 10, 2005, 01:46:16 PM
So how are we going to short hand this device for the recording info
I've already seen one sig around here with MTR as the short hand. I like MTR so I'll use that when I pick one up.
What's so bad about MicroTrack? ???
Quote from: Kohn Jelly on August 12, 2005, 05:25:23 PM
What's so bad about MicroTrack? ???
and who really cares ???
;)
i'm gonna label it "MicroTRax0R fUcKing GIanT KillaR OMG LOL WTF!?!11!!"
wtf does it matter? people never label shit the same anyways...
Quote from: Simp-Dawg on August 13, 2005, 04:59:25 AM
i'm gonna label it "MicroTRax0R fUcKing GIanT KillaR OMG LOL WTF!?!11!!"
wtf does it matter? people never label shit the same anyways...
lol
thanks for all this discussion - you all have answered most of my questions! ;D
A few more...I've been taping for a while, but i don't know $hit about the technology/terminology
current rig is
dpa 4060 -> modSBM1 -> D100
transfer coax digi out/in to an maudio soundcard
-what is the advantage of going 24bit compared to 16bit (in basic terms?) how about 48 compared to 96?
-for playback, what is needed for 24bit?
-I don't have firewire, and I don't think my usb port is the fastest (my computer is ~2yrs old) - what is my best bet for transfers? is there anything I can buy to upgrade?
-what are the options for charging/powering this thing in the field? any stealth options?
-this stuff about 2gig max, when you either hit the 2gig limit or stop - how easy is it to start a new recording?
-i'll keep my 4060's - but I won't be able to use my sbm1 if I want to record in 24bit, right? what are the options for recording in 24b - or would it be fine to go straight into the maudio?
(obviously most/all of you don't have this yet, so these are just shots in the dark...)
thanks! this thing looks cool, i'm psyched about it
Quote from: cll on August 13, 2005, 06:53:03 PM
thanks for all this discussion - you all have answered most of my questions! ;D
A few more...I've been taping for a while, but i don't know $hit about the technology/terminology
current rig is
dpa 4060 -> modSBM1 -> D100
transfer coax digi out/in to an maudio soundcard
-what is the advantage of going 24bit compared to 16bit (in basic terms?) how about 48 compared to 96?
-for playback, what is needed for 24bit?
-I don't have firewire, and I don't think my usb port is the fastest (my computer is ~2yrs old) - what is my best bet for transfers? is there anything I can buy to upgrade?
-what are the options for charging/powering this thing in the field? any stealth options?
-this stuff about 2gig max, when you either hit the 2gig limit or stop - how easy is it to start a new recording?
-i'll keep my 4060's - but I won't be able to use my sbm1 if I want to record in 24bit, right? what are the options for recording in 24b - or would it be fine to go straight into the maudio?
(obviously most/all of you don't have this yet, so these are just shots in the dark...)
thanks! this thing looks cool, i'm psyched about it
www.24bitfaq.org (http://www.24bitfaq.org)
here is a wealth of info regarding 24 bit recording and advantages..you will have to can the sbm1 for 24 bit recording, yes, since it only has the options of either 16/44.1 or 48 (I believe) there are a couple options for 24 bit recording...the edirol r1, the edirol r4, the sound devices 722(which is great, btw, have one myself) fostex fr-2, marantz..others....but as for right now, the maudio and 722 seem to be the main two that people are buying or will buy....as far as specs of the device..you know as much as us...
for a simpler, more basic 24 bit FAQ, check out:
http://24bit.turtleside.com
certainly not as in depth as the www.24bitfaq.org, but a good starting place...
thank you both - very good info!
so the sbm-1 acts as an a/d converter - and also 'adds' to the sound? (i might be talking out of my @ss here, so feel free to correct me on what it does)
basically what i'm asking, is do i need anything in between my mics & the m-audio tracker? maybe need is a bad word - but is there something that fits in with what the sbm1 does that would do a similar function @ 24bit with the m-audio thing
thanks!!
Its all a matter of personal preference, I dont know much about the microtracker, but given the price of it, and the features it has, I would think that the pre/a>d stages wouldnt be as hot as running an outboard ...i think what a lot of people are planning on doing is keeping their favorite a/d, and preamp(grace v3 for example) and running that in front of the microtrack...If I were going to buy one, I wouldnt plan on it being awesome as an all in one box..thats just too hard to do given the profit margin....but if i were you id try it alone first, then if you didnt like it as an all in one, d/l some tapes made with different boxes and see what sound you like the best....as far as a>d goes, mytek makes a line of Converters that many folks rave about ....with the caveat being that portable one can ONLY do 24 bit recordings i think...(its called the stereo 192 i think)there are a few all in one boxes....the grace v3 which is arguably the best around these parts.....the apogee mini me, etc........as far as the sbm1 goes.. at least with the Oade brothers mod to the analog line stage , warmth and better sound were brought to the table...i think the stock one sounded pretty neutral, from the tapes i heard....
Quote from: cll on August 13, 2005, 10:01:55 PM
so the sbm-1 acts as an a/d converter - and also 'adds' to the sound? (i might be talking out of my @ss here, so feel free to correct me on what it does)
yes, the sbm-1 is an a/d converter. any piece of audio gear is going to sound different from other audio gear. I wouldn't really say "add" to the sound, just that the sound signal sounds different going through different sets of electronics. that said, people tend to classify and label what different pieces of gear "sound" like. i.e. the general consensus is that the V3 is very transparent (changes the incoming sound by little to nothing), where as a modSBM-1 is classified as a "warm" piece of gear (a little more emphasis on the low ed).
like BigRay said, it's all a matter of preference, and what you like. there are many a/d converters that are capable of 24 bit, although none as small as the SBM-1. off the top of my head, there's the Lunatec V3, the Apogee MiniMe, the AD2K+, the mytek converter, the Edirol UA-5, and several others. if size is important to you, there is also the Core Sound Mic2496, which is the same size as a Denecke AD-20.
BigRay has a good idea, because you don't really
need to run an outboard A/D converter. however, based on the low cost of the M-Audio recorder, many of us are expecting that the internal pre-amp and internal a/d converter will not be as good as the external gear (which many of us already own anyway). the truth is, no one has any idea what the M-Audio will sound like. so before you spend money of a new 24 bit a/d converter, it might be worthwhile to run your mics straight into the M-audio and see if you like the sound. if you don't like it, then think about a new a/d converter...
MYTEK RULES..MYTEK RULES...MYTEK RULES
Its coming soon...I just got my september copy of "EQ" magazine and guess what was on the second page....yep an ad for the micro tracker!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now starts the media blitz......can't wait!!!!!!!!
hi from france ;o)
the specs for microtrack are online on m-audio site...
it looks interesting, no?
1/8" Mic Input
Input Level: -14dBV
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -98dB, A-weighted
Dynamic Range: 98dB, A-weighted
THD+N: 0.003% (-90dB) @ -1dBFS, 1kHz
Channel-to-Channel Crosstalk (Bal): < -100dB
Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz, +/- 0.5dB
Preamp Gain: >34dB
stereo electret condenser power: electret condenser power enable
1/4" Mic/Line Inputs
Maximum Input Level: +4.3dBu, balanced; +2.1dBV, unbalanced
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -100dB, A-weighted
Dynamic Range: 100dB, A-weighted
THD+N: 0.003% (-90dB) @ -1dBFS, 1kHz
Channel-to-Channel Crosstalk (Bal): < -100dB
Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz, +/- 0.3dB @ 48kHz sample rate
Pre-amp Gain: > 55dB
Phantom Power: switchable phantom power
Line Outputs
Maximum Output Level: +2dBV, unbalanced
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -102dB, A-weighted
Dynamic Range: 102dB, A-weighted
THD+N: 0.00265% (-91.5dB) @ -1dBFS, 1kHz
Channel-to-Channel Crosstalk (Bal): < -100dB
Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz, +/- 0.3dB @ 48kHz sample rate
Headphone Output
Maximum Output: -2.0dBV at THD < 0.02% into 32 ohms
Working Range: 16 ohms to 600 ohms
Quote from: jackorose on August 16, 2005, 06:48:21 AM
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicroTrack/
here's another outlet to possibly purchase this from
399 sale price with free shipping.
So dam tempted to drop the hammer on this...
i'm fighting the same temptation -- such a nice price.
Quote from: RADIONICO on August 16, 2005, 06:40:42 AM
hi from france ;o)
the specs for microtrack are online on m-audio site...
it looks interesting, no?
1/4" Mic/Line Inputs
Maximum Input Level: +4.3dBu, balanced; +2.1dBV, unbalanced
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -100dB, A-weighted
Dynamic Range: 100dB, A-weighted
THD+N: 0.003% (-90dB) @ -1dBFS, 1kHz
Channel-to-Channel Crosstalk (Bal): < -100dB
Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz, +/- 0.3dB @ 48kHz sample rate
Pre-amp Gain: > 55dB
Phantom Power: switchable phantom power
Hmmm. looks OK, slightly better than the older portable Sony DAT-decks.
These 1/4" specs are true for both with and wthout pre-amp engaged?
Frequency response at 96 Khz?
Would these THD+N figures be enough to try 24-bit? (combined with noisier than 100 dB mics?)
I.e.: in the situation of louder shows, etc. (I doubt it but I ask the experienced users)
Hello,
Excuse my poor English, I'm French.
I'd like to know if there will be a preroll recording function on the MicroTrack.
This is a very usefull function (for people who intend to use it on shootings with a mixer for example).
I saw nothing like a preroll function in the MicroTrack specifications and it would be a pity it doesn't have this function.
vous savez autant que nous faisons à son sujet. J'espère tellement aussi. Itll soit gentil.
Quote from: azama on August 16, 2005, 07:36:07 AM
Hello,
Excuse my poor English, I'm French.
I'd like to know if there will be a preroll recording function on the MicroTrack.
Preroll requires RAM. RAM costs and adds to the total price.
Just use a 4GB CF card and record more? (although I would welcome preroll as well!)
Quote from: azama on August 16, 2005, 07:36:07 AM
Hello,
Excuse my poor English, I'm French.
I'd like to know if there will be a preroll recording function on the MicroTrack.
This is a very usefull function (for people who intend to use it on shootings with a mixer for example).
I saw nothing like a preroll function in the MicroTrack specifications and it would be a pity it doesn't have this function.
Aussi,.....ne laissez pas les bâtards ici vous descendre. ;)
Crazy question: I i like the tracker but i like the marantz pmd 660, I need opinions on which would be better for a novice to purchase? Both are around the same price range..
Thanks,
Keith
well.....you know as much about the mtracker as we do.
the marantz has been out for a bit yeah?
mtracker looks to be better for stealth i would think...looks smaller...the feature set is similar...
One large advantage to the PMD 660 IMO is the XLR inputs. This leaves you with more flexibiity. Does anyone know of an official release date?
Keith
Quote from: kmageau on August 16, 2005, 12:23:00 PM
One large advantage to the PMD 660 IMO is the XLR inputs. This leaves you with more flexibiity. Does anyone know of an official release date?
Keith
i think Doug Oade mentioned a release date on his forum...www.oade.com (http://www.oade.com)
Quote from: kmageau on August 16, 2005, 12:23:00 PM
One large advantage to the PMD 660 IMO is the XLR inputs. This leaves you with more flexibiity. Does anyone know of an official release date?
Keith
A release date for the 660 or M-Audio? ...the 660 has been out since spring and Doug's been providing a pre-amp mod since end of June.
660 plus's
- XLR inputs
- available now
- phantom power
- w/Oade mod, makes a practical all-in-one solution
660 minus's
- no 24 bit, on 16
- no digital input
- larger than the M-Audio
I chose a 660 because I needed a deck for the summer, wanted solid state and didn't want to spend alot of money. The Oade mod makes it usable as an all-in-one unit solution, but running phantom with my mod 460's drains the batterys fairly quick (~90 min's). I usually tape solo with my own mic's, so the lack of digital input wasn't a big consideration. I don't do much stealthing anymore also, but size isn't bad although quite a bit bigger than M-Audio appears to be.
thanks man...maybe it was a different marantz....650 perhaps??670??
that hadnt been released yet..
I would say that obviously the biggest factor in prefering the M-Audio over the Marantz is the availability of a digital input. While 24 bit is certainly another positive it is (IMO) not as pressing a need as a digital input. XLR really are a great feature but it is not a make it or break it feature as you can get from XLR to any other type of connection fairly easy. Adding a digital input/output may not be so easy.
One thing that we are unable to tell yet (duh!) is any sort of reliability with the MicroTracker. Several folks I know that own one of the Marantz products all like them but each one has had several frustrating things happen with each unit. Hopefully the MicroTracker will be easy to use and easy on the problems.
Can you do phantom without XLR? I assume no, but don't know for sure.
It was phantom more than XLR that was the draw for me, but ironically, this was the biggest disappointment as it puts a big drain on the batteries.
Quote from: BigRay on August 16, 2005, 12:54:06 PM
thanks man...maybe it was a different marantz....650 perhaps??670??
that hadnt been released yet..
maybe the 671?
http://www.cascademedia.net/products.asp?catid=94&prodid=1771
Quote from: d5 on August 16, 2005, 01:02:10 PM
Can you do phantom without XLR? I assume no, but don't know for sure.
yes...the MicroTracker can do phantom over 1/4 TRS jacks
Quote from: RADIONICO on August 16, 2005, 06:40:42 AM
1/4" Mic/Line Inputs
Maximum Input Level: +4.3dBu, balanced; +2.1dBV, unbalanced
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -100dB, A-weighted
Dynamic Range: 100dB, A-weighted
THD+N: 0.003% (-90dB) @ -1dBFS, 1kHz
Channel-to-Channel Crosstalk (Bal): < -100dB
Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz, +/- 0.3dB @ 48kHz sample rate
Pre-amp Gain: > 55dB
Phantom Power: switchable phantom power
100 dB dynamic range is under 17 bits. The old M1 claimed 87 dB
dynamic range. What's happening to the rest of the bits? And if
I go in with levels set too low, will this mean I'm still screwed?
Jeff
Quote from: keepongoin' on August 16, 2005, 01:13:14 PM
Quote from: BigRay on August 16, 2005, 12:54:06 PM
thanks man...maybe it was a different marantz....650 perhaps??670??
that hadnt been released yet..
maybe the 671?
http://www.cascademedia.net/products.asp?catid=94&prodid=1771
The Marantz PMD-671 has been released and available for a little while now. actually I was
very close to buying one, but the week it was released, talk about the M-Audio device started up, so I decided to wait it out. If the Microtrack doesn't work out, for whatever reason, the 671 is a good alternative to get S/PDIF input and record 24 bit onto flash cards (although more expensive).
yes...the MicroTracker can do phantom over 1/4 TRS jacks
Quote
Or rather, it hopes to..
Quote from: JasonSobel on August 16, 2005, 02:25:31 PM
Quote from: keepongoin' on August 16, 2005, 01:13:14 PM
Quote from: BigRay on August 16, 2005, 12:54:06 PM
thanks man...maybe it was a different marantz....650 perhaps??670??
that hadnt been released yet..
maybe the 671?
http://www.cascademedia.net/products.asp?catid=94&prodid=1771
The Marantz PMD-671 has been released and available for a little while now. actually I was very close to buying one, but the week it was released, talk about the M-Audio device started up, so I decided to wait it out. If the Microtrack doesn't work out, for whatever reason, the 671 is a good alternative to get S/PDIF input and record 24 bit onto flash cards (although more expensive).
I just got an email from Doug a few days ago, and he is busy "with the 660, R1 and 671." if he can work out his extensive mods for the 671, then the non-stealth crew could have a mighty fine single box 24/96 > flash solution...
good work, I missed that.
Quote from: WiFiJeff on August 16, 2005, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: RADIONICO on August 16, 2005, 06:40:42 AM
1/4" Mic/Line Inputs
Maximum Input Level: +4.3dBu, balanced; +2.1dBV, unbalanced
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -100dB, A-weighted
Dynamic Range: 100dB, A-weighted
THD+N: 0.003% (-90dB) @ -1dBFS, 1kHz
Channel-to-Channel Crosstalk (Bal): < -100dB
Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz, +/- 0.3dB @ 48kHz sample rate
Pre-amp Gain: > 55dB
Phantom Power: switchable phantom power
100 dB dynamic range is under 17 bits. The old M1 claimed 87 dB
dynamic range. What's happening to the rest of the bits? And if
I go in with levels set too low, will this mean I'm still screwed?
Jeff
100 dB of dynamic with 55 db of gain for the analog mic input is really good, specially for such small (and affordable) portable device. Hope there's no trick (like phantom power leak).
The 24 bit purpose for recording is to have headroom so there's a good definition at medium level (which mean the average level don't have to be too close to the 0dbFS). And of course the analog noise floor is more than the digital noise floor.
Quote from: WiFiJeff on August 16, 2005, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: RADIONICO on August 16, 2005, 06:40:42 AM
1/4" Mic/Line Inputs
Maximum Input Level: +4.3dBu, balanced; +2.1dBV, unbalanced
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -100dB, A-weighted
Dynamic Range: 100dB, A-weighted
THD+N: 0.003% (-90dB) @ -1dBFS, 1kHz
Channel-to-Channel Crosstalk (Bal): < -100dB
Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz, +/- 0.3dB @ 48kHz sample rate
Pre-amp Gain: > 55dB
Phantom Power: switchable phantom power
100 dB dynamic range is under 17 bits. The old M1 claimed 87 dB
dynamic range. What's happening to the rest of the bits? And if
I go in with levels set too low, will this mean I'm still screwed?
You can make a good 16-bit recording I guess with just the microtracker.
The other bits, if you are recording at 24 bit, are noise I guess.
With a good A/D (don't know any small ones for consumer level line in) you can record more than 16 bits of signal.
You have to wonder, at this stage, how many would-be 24-bit stealthers there are, though...I think most folks will be happy with this as long as it takes 1's and 0's flawlessly...and if it makes a decent 16-bit recording through the analog ins, gravy.
Quote from: Kelso on August 16, 2005, 09:41:23 PM
100 dB dynamic range is under 17 bits.
For reference, A-weighted dyn range specs for some other gear:
Dyn Range | Corresponding bit-depth | Device
114 | 19.0 | Sound Devices 722
110 | 18.3 | Grace Design Lunatec V3
105 | 17.5 | Apogee MiniMe *
100 | 16.6 | M-Audio MicroTrack
87 | 14.5 | Sony M1
83 | 13.8 | Edirol R1* no indication in their specs if this is A-weighted or not.
So, I'd say given the competition, the MicroTracker dyn range specs fare quite well. And remember - specs are not the be all end all.
Quote from: Kelso on August 16, 2005, 09:41:23 PMAnd if I go in with levels set too low, will this mean I'm still screwed?
No, not screwed - it just won't have quite the resolution it would have if you'd nailed the levels right on.
Quote from: Brian Skalinder on August 17, 2005, 12:10:08 AM
Quote from: Kelso on August 16, 2005, 09:41:23 PM
100 dB dynamic range is under 17 bits.
For reference, A-weighted dyn range specs for some other gear:
Dyn Range | Corresponding bit-depth | Device
114 | 19.0 | Sound Devices 722
110 | 18.3 | Grace Design Lunatec V3
105 | 17.5 | Apogee MiniMe *
100 | 16.6 | M-Audio MicroTrack
87 | 14.5 | Sony M1
83 | 13.8 | Edirol R1
* no indication in their specs if this is A-weighted or not.
Thanks for for this table to put things into perspective.
I think we can say that the M-Audio can be a (evry) good 16-bit recording, better than the average DAT?
Quote from: udovdh on August 17, 2005, 01:05:49 AMbetter than the average DAT?
We'll know once members here have an opportunity to run it in real life situations. Until then...we wait.
24 bit isn't only about dynamic, it has a better resolution and sounds better even if the analog stage doesn't have so much dynamic
so it really can't record 24bit on its own? or it needs an external a/d to do it?
there isn't a way to connect a sbm-1, is there?
yes it will record 24 bits on its own.
yes you can connect a sbm1 but sbm1 is only good for 16 bits.
Quote from: cll on August 17, 2005, 08:33:42 AM
so it really can't record 24bit on its own? or it needs an external a/d to do it?
as BigRay said, it can record 24 bit on it's own. the question is, are the internal components good enough to make it worthwhile to record at 24 bit over 16bit. We've speculated all along that it's pre-amp and A/D converter will not be as good as external devices, such as the V3 or whatever. however, at this point, it is all speculation, as none of us have ever heard what the unit sounds like on it's own.
Quote from: Sixto Lezcano on August 16, 2005, 03:40:16 PM
if the price of the mod isn't too much this might be a great option. definitely smaller than the fr2, and costs a little less too!
Actually, the pmd 671 really isn't that much smaller than the FR-2.
pmd 671 = 10.4"w x 2.0"h x 7.3"d , weight = 2 lbs 14 oz.
fr-2 = 9.8"w x 3.0"h x 8.7"d , weight = 3.3 lbs
Quote from: Brian Skalinder on August 17, 2005, 12:10:08 AM
Quote from: Kelso on August 16, 2005, 09:41:23 PM
100 dB dynamic range is under 17 bits.
For reference, A-weighted dyn range specs for some other gear:
Dyn Range | Corresponding bit-depth | Device
114 | 19.0 | Sound Devices 722
110 | 18.3 | Grace Design Lunatec V3
105 | 17.5 | Apogee MiniMe *
100 | 16.6 | M-Audio MicroTrack
87 | 14.5 | Sony M1
83 | 13.8 | Edirol R1
FR-2 Dynamic Range 100dB (ADC-DAC, 24bit, ref:-20dB, fs:48kHz) typical
A few questions for the experts.... The microphones I'll be using with my MicroTrack are Sound Pro SP-CMC-4 AT853's. Up til now I've been recording to minidisc with these mics and a battery box w/ bass rolloff. Will I still need to continue using the battery box when recording loud concerts with the MicroTrack? Or will I be able to plug the mics directly into the MicroTrack's mic input? If I do need to continue using the battery box, would I then need to buy an adapter to plug the microphones with battery box into the MicroTrack's 1/4" line inputs? Or do I plug the battery box into the 1/8" mic input? Thanks in advance...
The mic input is powered, so you *could* power your mics with it, but I think it's only 5 volts, so they'll likely be underpowered and prone to overloading easily. If you use the battery box, you'll need to use the 1/4" line ins...and get all sorts of adapters.
Quote from: greenone on August 17, 2005, 10:51:52 AM
The mic input is powered, so you *could* power your mics with it, but I think it's only 5 volts, so they'll likely be underpowered and prone to overloading easily. If you use the battery box, you'll need to use the 1/4" line ins...and get all sorts of adapters.
Thinking of one of these, to run from an MMA6000:
(http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-PHON-MINI-2.jpg)
Quote from: WiFiJeff on August 17, 2005, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: greenone on August 17, 2005, 10:51:52 AM
The mic input is powered, so you *could* power your mics with it, but I think it's only 5 volts, so they'll likely be underpowered and prone to overloading easily. If you use the battery box, you'll need to use the 1/4" line ins...and get all sorts of adapters.
Thinking of one of these, to run from an MMA6000:
(http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-PHON-MINI-2.jpg)
that looks like itll work Jeff. I just ordered a 2xlrm>stereo mini for my mma6000 from SP. had enough points and with the taperssection discount I got it for like 5 bucks..
speaking of which...Jeff, the coupon for SP is taperssection. type it in the code box.
Quote from: desertsky on August 17, 2005, 10:36:01 AMThe microphones I'll be using with my MicroTrack are Sound Pro SP-CMC-4 AT853's.
Or you could lose the battery box, convert the mics to accept phantom power, and run mics > phantom power adapter > MicroTracker. I'm not real familiar with your mics, so depending on the connectors, you may need adapters to switch around from1/8" mini,XLR, 1/4", etc.
Quote from: Brian Skalinder on August 17, 2005, 11:22:18 AM
Quote from: desertsky on August 17, 2005, 10:36:01 AMThe microphones I'll be using with my MicroTrack are Sound Pro SP-CMC-4 AT853's.
Or you could lose the battery box, convert the mics to accept phantom power, and run mics > phantom power adapter > MicroTracker. I'm not real familiar with your mics, so depending on the connectors, you may need adapters to switch around from1/8" mini,XLR, 1/4", etc.
yep, its 1/8 stereo mini...the mics have their fullest potential when modded for phantom anyway..
the difference is night and day.
A couple of things:
First, I've got the parts on order and will be making custom Segue Dogstar silver-clad cables to go into the Microtrack. 1/8" mini to 1/8" mini, 1/8" mini to dual 1/4", RCA to 1/4", whatever. I've also have right angle 1/8" mini and right-angle RCA, if you prefer. I haven't yet ordered, but if there is interest, I can get right-angle 1/4" connectors that I believe will fit into the Microtrack. I'm waiting to get my microtrack to make sure there'll be room. Folks should drop me a line if they're interested in these custom cables.
Second, I'd guess that you can go from battery box to the 1/8" mini mic input on the Microtrack. I don't think the 5v plug-in power on the 1/8" mic input will be an issue, but depending on the circuitry within the Microtrack, it might overload if getting as hot of a mic signal as PA recording generates going into the mic input (that is, with that hot of a signal, you might need to be going into the 1/4" inputs, that are built to withstand line level signals).
A battery box, say a 9v box, has capacitors inside that block the 9v DC voltage from going through the outputs to the downstream device, in this case the Microtrack. These same capacitors which block the 9v voltage generated by the battery box from going to the Microtracker will block the 5v plug-in power generated by the Microtracker. So it shouldn't be an issue to run your mics > battery box> the 1/8" mic input of the Microtracker. Only issue is that your signal will be running through two sets of capacitors, one set inside the battery box, and one set attached to the 1/8" mic input of the Microtracker. But you'll probably have this anyway, since the Microtracker probably has capacitors attached to its 1/4" inputs as well (it would need them to block the 48v phantom it provides via those inputs, though it might be designed to take those capacitors out of the signal path if phantom is not used, though I doubt it). Going through two sets of capacitors isn't a problem per se, it's just that the capacitors will color your signal that much more.
Anyway, not sure everyone is following this, but we should test to see if we can use the 1/8" mic input with mics + battery box, before we assume that the 1/4" inputs must be used.
Oh, also, those cables that WifiJeff has pictured may not fit in the Microtracker. I'm not saying they won't, but the microtracker is pretty small and its 1/4" inputs are pretty close together. Those cables have pretty large bodies for the 1/4" plugs, so I'm just wondering whether they can fit side by side in the Microtracker.
This (http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=Adpt2QmmMsf&preadd=action) was posted here before:
(http://www.audiogear.com/Resources/~Adpt2QmmMsf) It may come in handy?
Quote from: udovdh on August 17, 2005, 12:37:19 PM
This (http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=Adpt2QmmMsf&preadd=action) was posted here before:
(http://www.audiogear.com/Resources/~Adpt2QmmMsf) It may come in handy?
Only problem I see with that is it isn't TRS.
The specs say "Maximum Input Level: +4.3dBu, balanced; +2.1dBV, unbalanced ", so I guessing that you can use unbalanced TS 1/4" inputs, and not just balanced TRS 1/4" inputs.
Quote from: Todd R on August 17, 2005, 12:14:35 PM
Oh, also, those cables that WifiJeff has pictured may not fit in the Microtracker. I'm not saying they won't, but the microtracker is pretty small and its 1/4" inputs are pretty close together. Those cables have pretty large bodies for the 1/4" plugs, so I'm just wondering whether they can fit side by side in the Microtracker.
Good point. I'll have to ask SP to test them when the Microtrack comes in, and make up some custom ones if the fit is too tight. Don't want to disembowel the machine when I pull them out.
Jeff
Quote from: BigRay on August 17, 2005, 08:45:32 AM
yes you can connect a sbm1 but sbm1 is only good for 16 bits.
cool - what connection would i use from sbm1 -> m-audio?
Quote from: cll on August 17, 2005, 02:35:07 PM
Quote from: BigRay on August 17, 2005, 08:45:32 AM
yes you can connect a sbm1 but sbm1 is only good for 16 bits.
cool - what connection would i use from sbm1 -> m-audio?
a digital one 8)
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 17, 2005, 12:49:44 PM
Only problem I see with that is it isn't TRS.
This may be a stupid question, but...why would you need TRS for mono inputs? Don't you just need left/ground on one and right/ground on the other?
Quote from: greenone on August 17, 2005, 02:56:03 PMThis may be a stupid question, but...why would you need TRS for mono inputs? Don't you just need left/ground on one and right/ground on the other?
They gotta be TRS, don't they? I thought phantom power requires 3 lines:
- , [-], and ground?
Edit to add: WTF, why does a vert/horz scrollbar appear randomly on some of my posts?!?
That was my understanding....
But we were talking about various line-in options, no need to switch on phantom power (which cuts your battery life to 3 hours from 8). These dual 1/4" adaptors terminate in a 1/8" stereo plug, can't do phantom power with that.
Jeff
Didn't catch it was a female 1/8 > 1/4. If not using the phantom, then I guess there is no reason to have it TRS.
Thanks for the explanation! Completely forgot about phantom, but didn't know you couldn't do phantom over 1/8...so I'm basically only right by being ignorant and forgetful all at once. :P
Quote from: BornAgainTaper on August 17, 2005, 03:15:29 PMDidn't catch it was a female 1/8 > 1/4. If not using the phantom, then I guess there is no reason to have it TRS.
Me, too. Thanks for getting us back on track, WiFiJeff.
Quote from: jackorose on August 17, 2005, 06:44:28 PM
I talked to a sales engineer from sweetwater.com
and he is ok with me posting his name, which I did not think he would have a problem
he was very cool with me when I bought my v3 off of him and he just followed up with me here 6 months later
just to see how everything was going. As sales people go he is very laid back imo.
Anyway his name is Charlie Livingston and his contact number is 1-800-222-4700 ext. 1390
the url for the tracker is http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicroTrack/
I realize I posted earlier about sweetwater selling it for 399 + free shipping
I just wanted to get his name out for everyone. I am not making anything off of this that's for sure.
He claims they are expecting a shipment of 54 in on 9-9-05, yet he says do not hold your breath on this
as we all should know. They will take your order though and will not bill you until the unit ships to you.
He also stated 18 of them have been reserved already.
Thats the same price as cascade, correct??
If so, why not support the people who support this community. ?
Quote from: BigRay on August 17, 2005, 07:00:06 PM
Quote from: jackorose on August 17, 2005, 06:44:28 PM
I talked to a sales engineer from sweetwater.com
and he is ok with me posting his name, which I did not think he would have a problem
he was very cool with me when I bought my v3 off of him and he just followed up with me here 6 months later
just to see how everything was going. As sales people go he is very laid back imo.
Anyway his name is Charlie Livingston and his contact number is 1-800-222-4700 ext. 1390
the url for the tracker is http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicroTrack/
I realize I posted earlier about sweetwater selling it for 399 + free shipping
I just wanted to get his name out for everyone. I am not making anything off of this that's for sure.
He claims they are expecting a shipment of 54 in on 9-9-05, yet he says do not hold your breath on this
as we all should know. They will take your order though and will not bill you until the unit ships to you.
He also stated 18 of them have been reserved already.
Thats the same price as cascade, correct??
If so, why not support the people who support this community. ?
Does Cascade have free shipping?
Quote from: Rick on August 17, 2005, 07:02:40 PM
Quote from: BigRay on August 17, 2005, 07:00:06 PM
Quote from: jackorose on August 17, 2005, 06:44:28 PM
I talked to a sales engineer from sweetwater.com
and he is ok with me posting his name, which I did not think he would have a problem
he was very cool with me when I bought my v3 off of him and he just followed up with me here 6 months later
just to see how everything was going. As sales people go he is very laid back imo.
Anyway his name is Charlie Livingston and his contact number is 1-800-222-4700 ext. 1390
the url for the tracker is http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicroTrack/
I realize I posted earlier about sweetwater selling it for 399 + free shipping
I just wanted to get his name out for everyone. I am not making anything off of this that's for sure.
He claims they are expecting a shipment of 54 in on 9-9-05, yet he says do not hold your breath on this
as we all should know. They will take your order though and will not bill you until the unit ships to you.
He also stated 18 of them have been reserved already.
Thats the same price as cascade, correct??
If so, why not support the people who support this community. ?
Does Cascade have free shipping?
I dont know, I was half asking , half stating..
Hell, maybe we can draw another supporter for this place in sweetwater..
Youre right JR. THough when I called a few days ago, the FOlks at cascade said there are plenty left to cover people..
Quote from: jackorose on August 17, 2005, 07:05:49 PM
Cascade is selling it for 350 I think and they are charging shipping.
I'm not sure about this. I was told there was a discount given to the people that pre-ordered and put down a deposit as a good-will gesture for the delays.
This will be my 2nd major purchase from Cascade and it's these kinds of gestures that will keep me going back.
not to take anything away from cascade at all but I've bought a few things from Sweetwater and always get great service. Even a follow up phone call on a measly $4 adapter after delivery to make sure it was exactly what I wanted.
If the little dude keep his promises regarding the audio specs no need for an external preamp box unless it's something like a v3 or mini-me (even if it seems too good to be true)
FWIW, Sweetwater has some of the best customer service out there, as does Cascade obviously. No worries buying from either - both companies are top notch all the way.
Well folks this bring's an end to this version of this thread.
Go here for the continuation (PART III) of the discussion:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=48419.0