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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: fsulloway on October 06, 2005, 07:12:21 PM
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Alright, so I've decided that I want to enter the world of tubes. From what research I've done, it looks like the Jolida or Antique Sound Labs integrated stuff would be a good economical place to start. I'll also be looking for speakers. I like a lot of bass and listen to live aud recordings 95% of the time. I only have about $2000 to spend right now. I see that some of you use or recommend B&W's, Klipsch, and VSA's with the above amps. Any other combo suggestions are welcome.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1133558133 Anyone ever use one of these? This guy is willing to have his friend bring this to me to try for a few days.
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Frank,
How big is your listening space?
Have you considered a Stingray from Manley? I think these can be had for somewhere around $1200 used from A-gon. Paired with Kevin's VR2's he has for sale could be a sick combo (albeit a couple hundred bucks out of the range you listed).
From my experience, the Manleys have alot more bass slam than the other tube pieces I have heard.
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Unless Jolida and ASL have changed their sound since I last heard them a few years ago, bass is not their forte.
Think about maybe try one or more Golden Tube SE-40s.
I can't think of any tube amps that do bass well and are clean in your budget (although there are plenty if you want to spend more).
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm a huge fan of Jolida and was one of the first people in the U.S. to own one. Just don't think its the right choice for bass heads, although the rigth speaker match can overcome anything.
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Just my opinion, but B&W's and HIGHLY overrated unless you are into mellow classical/jazz recordings. Much better value from grresearch, vmps, vsa, just to name a few.
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Frank, Jolida or ASL is a good place to start although there are plenty of other tube choices out there for the same money. I also wouldn't be afraid of a nice solid state amp like a McCormack DNA-1, they are the best bang for the buck.
For speakers I would (of course) look for VSA's or some Vandersteen 2CE's, either of these will have good slam for cheap. I would say spend $600-800.00 on the amp, $1,000 on the speakers & $200.00 on some DH Labs Q-10 speaker cable. You will be surprised how good $2,000 will sound if spent wisely.
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Here are some nice tube amps
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1133662893
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1133569704
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1133390431
these are supposed to be real nice, too bad it's sold!
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1133137170
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1131983390
The VAC stuff is suposed to be AMAZING, I would look into that one for sure.
The CJ & Audio Research amps are clasic pieces that will retain value so you can resell later for little to no loss when you are ready to upgrade. That's how I got to where I am with my system today, small steps.
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Frank,
How big is your listening space?
It's L shaped. The smaller part where I sit is 12x16 and the other part is 12x18.
Have you considered a Stingray from Manley? I think these can be had for somewhere around $1200 used from A-gon. Paired with Kevin's VR2's he has for sale could be a sick combo (albeit a couple hundred bucks out of the range you listed).
From my experience, the Manleys have alot more bass slam than the other tube pieces I have heard.
The couple of stingrays that I saw were $1500+ so I really didn't give them much thought because of my 2K budget. Kevin already got rid of those Vr2's. That's good info though.
Unless Jolida and ASL have changed their sound since I last heard them a few years ago, bass is not their forte.
Think about maybe try one or more Golden Tube SE-40s.
I can't think of any tube amps that do bass well and are clean in your budget (although there are plenty if you want to spend more).
Seems like I read a few reviews where people were having some trouble with their Golden Tube SE-40's. I'll look into them some more. I realize with my budget that I'll have to compromise some. I may be better off saving up some more money to have a few more options.
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Cool. Thanks for all the links Carl.
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stingray>vr2 would be a ballys combo.
and I agree w/Eric. Manley stuff has gobbs of bass energy for tubes. Its a softer "slam" than w/a fat SS amp, but it still kicks you in the chest.
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Anyone heard the PrimaLuna stuff? Stereophile fluffed them, but Upscale Audio also places lots of ads, so who knows? I'd like some "other" opinions...
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Honestly, if you want bass then solid state is your best bet. I am on the fence but thinking I will go back to solid state so I can get the slam I miss. Tube amps don't usually have the power unless you spend STUPID money.
The Prima stuff looks pretty, I would check it out. If you don't like it just sell it. Just make sure you buy it right!
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I'm about to add a new master bedroom addition to my house which will have room for a little system. Since I won't need any real slam, I'm thinking some small and tubed with some monitors will be a perfect.. and easy to slide into price of the addition.
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Just my opinion, but B&W's and HIGHLY overrated unless you are into mellow classical/jazz recordings. Much better value from grresearch, vmps, vsa, just to name a few.
and i respect your opinion, as wrong as it is.
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http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1132803676
I can't recommend this tube integrated highly enough. Don't let the 30 wpc fool you, I can rock the VR4's with it, no problem. Not "concert level" spl's, but plenty loud for general listening (and loud enough for my neighbors to complain). Excellent low end extension and control for an all tube design. Wonderful intro to tubes, allows use of EL34's, KT88's, variety of pre tubes, excellent support, etc.
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and easy to slide into price of the addition.
good luck with that (coming from the guy who bought speakers and didnt tell his wife about them til he showed up at the house with them :P )
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Just my opinion, but B&W's and HIGHLY overrated unless you are into mellow classical/jazz recordings. Much better value from grresearch, vmps, vsa, just to name a few.
and i respect your opinion, as wrong as it is.
which part is wrong: B&W's are overrated unless you listen to mellow classical/jazz, that there are better values from other mfgs., or both? I may not argue the mellow bit, but I would beg to differ on the better value
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Just my opinion, but B&W's and HIGHLY overrated unless you are into mellow classical/jazz recordings. Much better value from grresearch, vmps, vsa, just to name a few.
and i respect your opinion, as wrong as it is.
And I respect yours as as always.
I do not believe I have ever heard a tube amp before but am considering getting a dk designs mk3 signature soon. If I am a detail freak, am I going to not like tubes?
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Just my opinion, but B&W's and HIGHLY overrated unless you are into mellow classical/jazz recordings. Much better value from grresearch, vmps, vsa, just to name a few.
and i respect your opinion, as wrong as it is.
which part is wrong: B&W's are overrated unless you listen to mellow classical/jazz, that there are better values from other mfgs., or both? I may not argue the mellow bit, but I would beg to differ on the better value
i disagree with the b&w's being overrated- i think there are other good values out there, but the term value is highly subjective here.
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Obviously, some value their dollars differently than others, and others see value in speakers differently, but to clarify my opinion, I found that my dollar went further looking at other lines regarding appearance in addition to sound.
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Obviously, some value their dollars differently than others, and others see value in speakers differently, but to clarify my opinion, I found that my dollar went further looking at other lines regarding appearance in addition to sound.
i think it has a lot to do with the pairing of the amps and speakers. for me, i couldnt find a better match for the mcintosh components than b&w nautilus speakers. i couldnt find anything cleaner, clearer, or more detailed without getting into the 10k+ range.
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Honestly, if you want bass then solid state is your best bet.
Yeah, tube pre> SS amp is where it's at, Frank!
http://show.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/shm.pl?ampstran&1121643981&item&Sound_odyssey&4&5&6&http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fs_srch.plQQANYAAAApurlsrchAAEXYAAst26AAAAAAjolida
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Obviously, some value their dollars differently than others, and others see value in speakers differently, but to clarify my opinion, I found that my dollar went further looking at other lines regarding appearance in addition to sound.
i think it has a lot to do with the pairing of the amps and speakers. for me, i couldnt find a better match for the mcintosh components than b&w nautilus speakers. i couldnt find anything cleaner, clearer, or more detailed without getting into the 10k+ range.
Fair enough, it's just my opinion, albeit an educated one. Speakers are like taping gear, everyone has their personal tastes. Has anyone heard the new 800 series diamond tweeters yet?
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Obviously, some value their dollars differently than others, and others see value in speakers differently, but to clarify my opinion, I found that my dollar went further looking at other lines regarding appearance in addition to sound.
i think it has a lot to do with the pairing of the amps and speakers. for me, i couldnt find a better match for the mcintosh components than b&w nautilus speakers. i couldnt find anything cleaner, clearer, or more detailed without getting into the 10k+ range.
Fair enough, it's just my opinion, albeit an educated one. Speakers are like taping gear, everyone has their personal tastes. Has anyone heard the new 800 series diamond tweeters yet?
I took a listen to them last week- detailed is a good word for them. They are decently fast and accurate. I am just not trained enough to really hear that diamond tweeter in comparison to the tweeters in mine.
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Anyone heard the PrimaLuna stuff? Stereophile fluffed them, but Upscale Audio also places lots of ads, so who knows? I'd like some "other" opinions...
I have a Prima Luna Prologue One and I love it. I think I gave a full review in this forum at some point but I'm too lazy to go looking for it. :)
I can't really comment about the low end since my MMGs are a little lacking in that area but the mids are silky smooth and the highs are very clear and defined. One really nice feature of the Prima Lunas is that they self bias. I really like the amp and have no intentions of replacing it anytime in the near future.
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Just my opinion, but B&W's and HIGHLY overrated unless you are into mellow classical/jazz recordings. Much better value from grresearch, vmps, vsa, just to name a few.
and i respect your opinion, as wrong as it is.
And I respect yours as as always.
I do not believe I have ever heard a tube amp before but am considering getting a dk designs mk3 signature soon. If I am a detail freak, am I going to not like tubes?
Start thinking high end solid state, Levinson, Krell, Plinius and I'll bet that you'd like the Portal Panache...
Tube amps are rarely described as detailed, articulate, critical, or accurate.
The closest are pure class A OTL balanced designs. Hard to find.
They also sacrifice some of the very qualities that endear us to tube sound.