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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: jeromejello on October 18, 2005, 10:43:54 AM
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ok, i realize that the premise behind this can be VERY subjective, but there may also be some generalized guidelines to how certain mics sound. Now if i wasnt a newb, i might offer to work this up, but since i think my at853 melt face ;D i am probably not the most qualified individual for this task. task, that sounds like work... whatcha talking about willis
so i thought it would be a good idea to help newbs like me out if there was a reference chart for some of the more popular mics out there that would give their tonal qualities and possibly some other properties that might not be so evident to people. this has the potential for helping people pair their current gear with new mics or vise versa when you chart out where certain mics lie on say the bright vs muddy scale of things... realize i dont know if these are even the most appropriate terms, but it would be nice to know if a mic has a heavy bass end or grating highs, nondefined mids or true to the source... other important info may be if the mics run hot (ie, peluso and earthworks) or if they eat a lot of power (earthworks), subjected to phasing/wind or has harsh roll offs. i guess this could turn into a pissing/fluffing contest, but i really want to hear from what some people who have been doing this a lot longer than me (and with better playback systems) have to say about this. in the spirit of science, lets try and keep this neutral.
here is the list of mics, by no means exhaustive, but a good representation of what is in the field... anyone up to killing some time with this?
AKG 390
AKG 414 - 5 pattern LD
AKG 460 - bright mic with a characteristic mid-high sizzle. ck63 are one of the better examples of hypercards. can be modded to make them more like the 480, some say better? able to have actives, but hard to find.
AKG 480 - transformer based bright mic with a characteristic mid-high sizzle. ck63 are one of the better examples of hypercards.
AKG 1000 -
ADK TL
ADK SC-1
AT 853
AT 4050
Audix 1290 - extremely small micros with interchangeble caps. crystal clear highs and mids, but a bit lacking in the lowend. almost every recording i made with them thru the v3 i had to add a bit of bump too. however, when i ran them with my old ua-5 they sounded great and very well rounded. Many people find the m1290s sound like the AKG 480s.
DPA 4011
DPA 4022
DPA 4060/1
Earthworks SR-77(1) - runs hot, power hungry. The bass drop off is pretty steep on the SR-77s at around 100 Hz, it falls off about 3 or 4 dB (which is pretty steep) and continues to drop off the lower in the frequency spectrum you go.
Josephine c42 - great small cardiod mics. best used for onstage recoding or studio applications. In general (not always) the mics tend to suffer with distance from the source.
MBHO 603
MG M300
MG SMS2000
Nakamichi CM-300
Neumann 18x - mids are defintely sweeter/smoother for the caliber with a loose/sloppy bottom end. fixed caps, more afforable series.
Neumann 100 - mids are defintely sweeter/smoother for the caliber with a loose/sloppy bottom end. able to have actives. suffers from distance with the cards, really shine FOB.
Neumann u89
Oktava MC012 - With silky highs and a decent midrange which more than makeup for its subtle sloppy low end, this mic(s) are well suited for up close stuff (omni,card) as well as large style arena taping (hypers,omni). The best of the three caps IMO is the hyper, as it makes a terrible sounding room sound bearable, as well as bringing the music "upfront" in larger sounding places. Id compare them to the Neumann sound, with a slightly sloppy low end.
Peluso CEMC6 - runs hot, have been compared to mbho sound. nicer bottom then akg 480 with a more meaty sound overall. The low end on these mics is extremely tight and focused with a nice neutral top end. The midrange detail is good but not quite as natural as say MGs. If I were to compare them to any other mic I would say they sound a lot like Earthworks SR77s but with a more realistic bottom end. Not quite the level of refined detail you get out of $1500 microphone. But that bottom end is indeed very solid. great punch. the midrange is pretty nice, i thought. its warm and smooth, but again, lacks comparred to the best there is. while the cards smoke, the hypers not so much
Schoeps CMC6/mk4
SP-C4
SP-LSD
**edit to add some info i have picked up from the board and this thread, sorry i didnt quote the sources - you know who you are** this is an example of what i am looking for so please keep the info coming ;D i may even geek out and plot the mics on some sort of graph if i dont get a new job soon. :P
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Good Idea :thinking:
Im thinking others could just add their comments about what "they" hear out of a particular microphone...
AKG 390
AKG 414
AKG 460
AKG 480
AKGc568eb - A short shotgun microphone with a hyper cardioid pattern. I have used these mics many times in varying situations, but they are well suited for mid/large style venues (sheds, arenas, large theatres) or any venue where the sound may not be optimum. The have "allmost" that classic flat AKG sound (not dark, not bright hmm akg is all i can say ;) ), with a boost in 500 Hz range giving it more directivity, but without sacrificing the low end.
AKG 1000
ADK TL
ADK SC-1
AT 853
AT 4050
Audix 1290
DPA 4011
DPA 4022
DPA 4060/1
Earthworks SR-77(1)
Josephine c42
MBHO 603
MG M300
MG SMS2000
Nakamichi CM-300
Neumann 18x
Neumann 100
Neumann u89
Neumann TLM 170 - What can I say about this Large Diaphragm Multi Patterned mic that hasnt allready been said. Superb for up close instrumental (onstage, fob) with a transparent sound at all frequencies. Truly Neumann sounding in the sense that it has silky mids and highs, with a nice round warm sounding low end. Some may argue that it does not add the sought after "Neumann color" that the u87,89 bring to the table, which is true, however those merits IMO are more suited to vocals than instrumentation. Their main drawback is size and weight, as well as (which is true of all LD mics) a coloured off axis response which can make a room that doesnt sound so good, not sound so good. Using the hypers in bad sounding rooms can help quite a bit, but I feel even with this pattern, it is not really suited for large indoor arenas unless the sound is perfect. Having the multiple patterns sometimes can get confusing as to options, but it also means that with practice and experimentaion, you can tackle allmost any recording situation. I *highly* recommend these mics for onstage and close up recording, and especially running them M/S or blumlien when the sound is good and your in the sweetspot.
Oktava MCO12 (card, hyper, omni caps) - This small, interchangable cap microphone is IMO a steal for those wanting to get their feet wet to taping. With silky highs and a decent midrange which more than makeup for its subtle sloppy low end, this mic(s) are well suited for up close stuff (omni,card) as well as large style arena taping (hypers,omni). The best of the three caps IMO is the hyper, as it makes a terrible sounding room sound bearable, as well as bringing the music "upfront" in larger sounding places. Id compare them to the Neumann sound, with a slightly sloppy low end.
Peluso CEMC6
Schoeps CMC6/mk4
SP-C4
SP-LSD
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Maybe after comments have been made, someone could format it so it looks good and is easy to read. +T
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Maybe after comments have been made, someone could format it so it looks good and is easy to read. +T
well i have no problem organizing the data... i just lack in the comment department. +t backatcha
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Neumann TLM 170 - What can I say about this Large Diaphragm Multi Patterned mic that hasnt allready been said. Superb for up close instrumental (onstage, fob) with a transparent sound at all frequencies. Truly Neumann sounding in the sense that it has silky mids and highs, with a nice round warm sounding low end.
transparent = neumann sounding?
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Neumann TLM 170 - What can I say about this Large Diaphragm Multi Patterned mic that hasnt allready been said. Superb for up close instrumental (onstage, fob) with a transparent sound at all frequencies. Truly Neumann sounding in the sense that it has silky mids and highs, with a nice round warm sounding low end.
transparent = neumann sounding?
yep.. "in the sense that it has silky mids and highs, with a nice round warm sounding low end. "
"Some may argue that it does not add the sought after "Neumann color" that the u87,89 bring to the table, which is true, however those merits IMO are more suited to vocals than instrumentation."
edit: or what the Neumann page says..
"The TLM 170 R condenser microphone is a large diaphragm microphone with multiple polar patterns. Its sound has a very transparent characteristic, in contrast to some of our other microphones that have a distinct personality.
Therefore, this microphone is used for many diverse applications in professional recording studios, in broadcasting, film and television, and for semiprofessional productions. "
of course.. ymmv
edit AGAIN: from the first line of the first post.. "ok, i realize that the premise behind this can be VERY subjective"
and I will only say this.. for a Neumann.. it is transparant! thats my story and im stickin to it!! :P
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yep.. "in the sense that it has silky mids and highs, with a nice round warm sounding low end. "
that just doesn't seem like the definition of transparent to me, though ???
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fwiw, i am hoping to get away from what a particular manufacture thinks of thier mic... i want to gauge this more on our applications in the field with live recording. also, wouldnt transparent imply a sound that would mimic the source, ie, it would sound just as it did live... coloring the sound with a 'warm bottom' doesnt give me the impression that it is transparent.
i know nothing.
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for a Neumann, the TLM-170 is as transparent as it gets.
Really a nice sounding microphone...
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josephson c42>
great small cardiod mics. best used for onstage recoding or studio applications. In general (not always) the mics are not as good farther from stage. I run these for my onstage recordings
mbho 603> I use these bodies with the hypercard caps. These are great all around mics. Ive used them onstage and they have preoduced quality recordings. also back by the sbd they have pulled some great tapes
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DPA 4060/4061> Transparent and colorless omnidirectional microphones. Crisp, clean and distortion free. Many especially like the sound of these mics for acoustic types of music. The hotter you can run these mics the better they'll sound. Great results in a close proximity sweet spot but still impress when FOB.
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The hotter you can run these mics the better they'll sound.
Isn't this true with all mics? Strong levels (approaching 0dBFS, without clipping, of course) = utilization of all the resolution available at the given bit-depth (16- or 24-bit) = better sound.
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here's my take on the audix 1290...
crystal clear highs and mids, but a bit lacking in the lowend. almost every recording i made with them thru the v3 i had to add a bit of bump too. however, when i ran them with my old ua-5 they sounded great and very well rounded.
based on evi's comments about the dpa 406x's - do other people think they're transparent and colorless, i've always thought of them as being a bit warm.
i can't comment on the 140's yet, i haven't had them long enuf, but i can say they sound awesome. especially with the v3.
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good info Ed. your comments about the audix actually opens a can of worms that should be addressed as well, just maybe not by me or this thread - the coloration of pre/adc boxes. i have heard the 148 brick to be warm and the there are the obvious oade mods of the ua-5 and the ?transparent-to-brightness? of the v3. i realize ALL this is extremely important in putting together THE rig. for example the audix didnt pair well with the v3, but with the ua-5 it was a good match. these are the ultimate goals that i have for this chart/list, to provide a reference of mics (and pre/adc boxes) so someone can either see how to get a warm sound or avoid a bright one or match thier current box with new mics for a transparent sound, etc. ambitious, yes... welcome to unemployment... >:D
+t's all around... great info!
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based on evi's comments about the dpa 406x's - do other people think they're transparent and colorless, i've always thought of them as being a bit warm.
Yep, I'd rate them as being very transparent.
I would add a further comment comment about the 406x - the 4060 is more sensitive (and as a result has a lower max SPL) than the 4061. I've been bitten a bare handful of times by the SPL thing (perhaps 3 times out of 100 I've observed my 4060's self-distort). In all those cases the sound was so loud it was physically uncomfortable (yes, even wearing earplugs) so I didn't really lose anything worthwhile recording.
dpa4060 > Mic2496 > jb3 - not a good combination, the dpas are too hot for the mic2496. 4061s would probably work better.
dpa4060 > mps6030 > jb3 - good combination, what I'm currently running. 4061s would probably be too cold. I suspect you could substitue the mps6030 for a SP battery box and it would still be a good combination.
best regards,
stephen
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Yeah the 4061s don't run hot enough without some help. Even a SP batt box results in low levels, like -15db or more depending how loud the source is, when plugged into a JB3. I've clipped the 4061s with the R1, so an external pre is not necessary, but folks have said the mma6000 by DPA has an impact greater than volume alone.
As for the mics being warm? No way. Every time I've used them they've been true and accurate to the sound source. They're just...natural. Sometimes this has not been a positive characteristic!
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;D
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nice shit
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What is the source of that chart? Good way to present the info.
No AKG 480/460 ???
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;D
sweet... my task is done... ;D
just in time, i start a new job on monday... go muj go! :nightfevah:
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;D
sweet... my task is done... ;D
I think it would be cool to continue on the same track that the thread was on, personally.
Especially with my new gear, I'm finding that I want to know as much as possible about it. I know there's tons of info on this board, but you have to do a lot of searching for it (nothing wrong with that). IMO, I think it would be sweet to start a thread for each different kind of gear and compile all the info in one spot. Then people can add things as they are discovered. Just a thought.
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Interesting chart. I too would like to know from where it came and who participated in this sampling and how they defined transparency.
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well according to the graph transparency is the opposite of colored mics.
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Interesting chart. I too would like to know from where it came and who participated in this sampling and how they defined transparency.
http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/about.htm
Answers all your questions (well except transparency, but I'm going to assume they use it like most other people when they use it to equal what you hear is what you get).
Wayne