Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Mike Sarnovsky on November 02, 2005, 11:05:06 AM
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Hi Everyone,
I probably need to read further down and figure this out for myself, but how about some opinions:
I run km184->MP-2->MOD-SBM-1 (line stage and coax) -> D100.
If I bought a 722, should I just scrap mp-2 and MOD-SBM1 altogether?
Also, can I run my ecocharge setup, pending I get a new power cable for the 722?
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My opinion, the Mod-SBM-1 becomes antiquated w/ a 722, because of its inability to do 24bit. But, you can still keep the MP-2 for flavor, if you dig it, but its not necessary, as the 722 provides the phantom power.
You should see a 722 in person, if you ever get a chance. I think its sick as hell...
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I'd clean it all out including the eco charges. They will still work but you can get some 6ah+ li-ion internal batteries for the 722 and shed a lot of weight. I think these are running 35-40 each.
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clean everything out...unfortunately it is probably a bit late to get max value out of the DAT as the bottom is dropping out of that market....16 bit devices will probably follow soon as well....
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Hi Everyone,
I probably need to read further down and figure this out for myself, but how about some opinions:
I run km184->MP-2->MOD-SBM-1 (line stage and coax) -> D100.
If I bought a 722, should I just scrap mp-2 and MOD-SBM1 altogether?
Yes! Neumann > 722 sounds good :)
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clean everything out...unfortunately it is probably a bit late to get max value out of the DAT as the bottom is dropping out of that market....16 bit devices will probably follow soon as well....
I think 16 bit recorders will be around a while. At the pro audio/video (tiny group) 24 bit is impressive. But at the normal consumer level (gigantic group), 16 bit works just fine. Besides, if 24 bit became the standard, then HD storage space would have to quadruple to handle it, like what everyone recording 24 bit is experiencing right now at TS. I say less than 10 years before 24 bit takes hold of the consumer market.
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clean everything out...unfortunately it is probably a bit late to get max value out of the DAT as the bottom is dropping out of that market....16 bit devices will probably follow soon as well....
I think 16 bit recorders will be around a while. At the pro audio/video (tiny group) 24 bit is impressive. But at the normal consumer level (gigantic group), 16 bit works just fine. Besides, if 24 bit became the standard, then HD storage space would have to quadruple to handle it, like what everyone recording 24 bit is experiencing right now at TS. I say less than 10 years before 24 bit takes hold of the consumer market.
from a consumer perspective I agree with you...they will continue listening at that level. But for tapers, I would argue that most I know want to record at the highest resolution possible, then dither/resample down to get to a format for distribtuion, but in the future they have access to those high res recordings...
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I think that the mp-2 sounds a bit like the 722 pre...warm, lacking a bit of detail, but overall pleasing sound. So in your case, I think you'd do fine getting rid of both the sbm1 and mp-2. The mp-2 just wouldn't do much to tighten things up imo.
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clean everything out...unfortunately it is probably a bit late to get max value out of the DAT as the bottom is dropping out of that market....16 bit devices will probably follow soon as well....
I think 16 bit recorders will be around a while. At the pro audio/video (tiny group) 24 bit is impressive. But at the normal consumer level (gigantic group), 16 bit works just fine. Besides, if 24 bit became the standard, then HD storage space would have to quadruple to handle it, like what everyone recording 24 bit is experiencing right now at TS. I say less than 10 years before 24 bit takes hold of the consumer market.
My DAW only has 36GB of storage for audio files and I have no problems with space(you guys know how much i tape too). I have tried it w/ some 40 & 60 gig IDE drives but the extra space was not really necessary and was more time consuming than using the SCSI drive. This is an ~1.2Ghz AMD w/ 512 RAM. IMHO it is not a HD space issue but an optical media issue ~4.5GB on a DVD is crap, R9 is way too expensive for the media and still limited space. We need 25/50/100GB removeable/archivable media @ less than $1 a disk(preferebly in the .25 range), NOW.
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clean everything out...unfortunately it is probably a bit late to get max value out of the DAT as the bottom is dropping out of that market....16 bit devices will probably follow soon as well....
I think 16 bit recorders will be around a while. At the pro audio/video (tiny group) 24 bit is impressive. But at the normal consumer level (gigantic group), 16 bit works just fine. Besides, if 24 bit became the standard, then HD storage space would have to quadruple to handle it, like what everyone recording 24 bit is experiencing right now at TS. I say less than 10 years before 24 bit takes hold of the consumer market.
from a consumer perspective I agree with you...they will continue listening at that level. But for tapers, I would argue that most I know want to record at the highest resolution possible, then dither/resample down to get to a format for distribtuion, but in the future they have access to those high res recordings...
Agreed on tapers. Though for me personal, the extra work involved in dithering would require me to hire a producer to handle the extra work load. I usually have a full taping schedule. Maybe in the future, but not now while I battling tapers-flu. ;) ;D
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In addition, pro musicians who tape very casually still seem to like DAT too.
Something else to think about: one reason the prices may be dropping is that the decks have a pretty limited lifetime absent expensive service and they obviously get older and more used by the day with new production having ceased. In that respect dropping prices does not signify dropping interest, any more than the increasing depreciation of a used car as it ages signifies a shift away from driving cars. But indeed I present that as only one factor influencing the DAT price declines.
Back to the original topic (but still crapping the thread a bit), if I were running km184->MP-2->MOD-SBM-1 ( -> D100, I'd seriously consider eliminating the SBM-1 from the current rig.
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Hi Everyone,
I probably need to read further down and figure this out for myself, but how about some opinions:
I run km184->MP-2->MOD-SBM-1 (line stage and coax) -> D100.
If I bought a 722, should I just scrap mp-2 and MOD-SBM1 altogether?
Also, can I run my ecocharge setup, pending I get a new power cable for the 722?
Clean it out is definitely an option. I've run some comps (in my living room) using my 722 internal pre and my Oade m148. The 722 has a warm sound that is similar to the m148. I found the 148 to have a more robust, fuller midrange than the 722, but definitely felt the 722 pre was good enough to leave my m148 at home if I needed to run a more compact setup for some reason. If you love the sound of the Aerco, then it may be worth keeping...that's a personal preference kind of thing. The ModSBM would most certainly be out the door. What's the saying..."once you go 24bit..." you get the idea. ;)
mitch
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Agreed on tapers. Though for me personal, the extra work involved in dithering would require me to hire a producer to handle the extra work load. I usually have a full taping schedule. Maybe in the future, but not now while I battling tapers-flu. ;) ;D
Really? Why? I cut the 24/96 files into separate .wav tracks via CDWave for DVD. To "dumb it down" to 16/44.1 for CDs I just use Wavelab to dither then resample the files in batch w/ a preset I've created and saved. Wavelab will process an entire 3hr show of files in about 3-5min. Short enough that I don't get bored just sitting there watching it run (and I'm not very patient). Sure, it's an extra step, but I wouldn't call it time consuming by any stretch of the imagination.
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Agreed on tapers. Though for me personal, the extra work involved in dithering would require me to hire a producer to handle the extra work load. I usually have a full taping schedule. Maybe in the future, but not now while I battling tapers-flu. ;) ;D
Really? Why? I cut the 24/96 files into separate .wav tracks via CDWave for DVD. To "dumb it down" to 16/44.1 for CDs I just use Wavelab to dither then resample the files in batch w/ a preset I've created and saved. Wavelab will process an entire 3hr show of files in about 3-5min. Short enough that I don't get bored just sitting there watching it run (and I'm not very patient). Sure, it's an extra step, but I wouldn't call it time consuming by any stretch of the imagination.
+T for answering that. Do you dumb it down, before Flacing or after?
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Agreed on tapers. Though for me personal, the extra work involved in dithering would require me to hire a producer to handle the extra work load. I usually have a full taping schedule. Maybe in the future, but not now while I battling tapers-flu. ;) ;D
Really? Why? I cut the 24/96 files into separate .wav tracks via CDWave for DVD. To "dumb it down" to 16/44.1 for CDs I just use Wavelab to dither then resample the files in batch w/ a preset I've created and saved. Wavelab will process an entire 3hr show of files in about 3-5min. Short enough that I don't get bored just sitting there watching it run (and I'm not very patient). Sure, it's an extra step, but I wouldn't call it time consuming by any stretch of the imagination.
Any tips on creating the batch processing preset you made in Wavelab would be entirely appreciated. I usually cut the files in CD-WAV, and save each track at 24bit. Then, I'll bring in the huge file into SoundForge, do a Waves L2 dither, and re-cut them all again with CD-WAV using the cue sheet.
I really suck at wavelab. It seems very counter-intuitive to me.
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work flow I use is defined here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=49027.msg678596#msg678596
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Thanks Nick - Quoting from that thread:
24 bit
- Open first 24 bit file in CDWAV and track out
- Save tracks as "alternate 24 bit format"
- Save Cuesheet
- Repeat process for additonal 24 bit files (until show is complete)
- Take split files, join them in wavelab and save
- Add fade in/out to beg/end of show in wavelab
- Burn 24 bit DVD
- Flac 24 bit files
16 bit
- Open first 24 bit file (raw file from 722) in Wavelab and dither/resample
- Repeat processs for additional 24 bit files (until show is complete)
- Open resampled/dithered files in CDWAV and open the saved cuesheet (which should put the track marks at the same point in the file as the 24 bit copy)
- Save files
- Repeat process for additional 16/44.1 chunks until show is complete
- Take split files, join them in Wavelab and save
- Burn 16/44 CD
- FLAC 16 bit files
I think this is what exactly what I do as well... I don't do fades or anything like that, so I don't worry about that stuff.... I think I join them in wavelab only becuase I throw them all in a montage to burn a DVD-A.
Anyways, I'm polluting this thread with OT stuff, I apologize to the thread originator.
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work flow I use is defined here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=49027.msg678596#msg678596
Thanks Nick!
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Agreed on tapers. Though for me personal, the extra work involved in dithering would require me to hire a producer to handle the extra work load. I usually have a full taping schedule. Maybe in the future, but not now while I battling tapers-flu. ;) ;D
Really? Why? I cut the 24/96 files into separate .wav tracks via CDWave for DVD. To "dumb it down" to 16/44.1 for CDs I just use Wavelab to dither then resample the files in batch w/ a preset I've created and saved. Wavelab will process an entire 3hr show of files in about 3-5min. Short enough that I don't get bored just sitting there watching it run (and I'm not very patient). Sure, it's an extra step, but I wouldn't call it time consuming by any stretch of the imagination.
Any tips on creating the batch processing preset you made in Wavelab would be entirely appreciated. I usually cut the files in CD-WAV, and save each track at 24bit. Then, I'll bring in the huge file into SoundForge, do a Waves L2 dither, and re-cut them all again with CD-WAV using the cue sheet.
I really suck at wavelab. It seems very counter-intuitive to me.
It's pretty easy really. Doing this from memory...will double check later at home.
In the Process menu on the top toolbar there is an option for BATCH PROCESSING.
Once that's open, on the INPUT tab, select all of the individual 24bit files you created in CDWav, then look for the button towards the far right of the window that is "EDIT BATCH PLUGINS". Looks like a piece of paper w/ a + sign I think. In there you need to find the UV22HR plugin and add it to the list of plugins to process (it will show up in the window on the left when added). Then find the resample plugin, add it also, and set it to 44.1. You should now have 2 plugins in the left side of the input window. FYI they process in the order listed should you want to change it. Once they're both in there, look for the preset option and just save the preset. Now when you come back and do this again, you just goto "Edit Batch Plugins" in the dialog and load your preset instead of picking the plugins individually.
Next goto the OUTPUT tab, and pick a location to save the new files. BE SURE TO CHANGE THE OUTPUT FORMAT TO 16bit 44.1khz WAV otherwise the wav headers will be wrong and they'll look like 24bit files even though they aren't.
Now just run it. You'll see a progress bar open up and you can watch it run through all of the files. Seriously takes 3-5min to do an entire show on my box. That's is....pretty easy once you do it once.
Good luck! Lemme know if you need anymore help.
mitch
PS, that workflow above is fine, but that's a hard way of doing it in my opinion if your goal is to make both a 24bit and 16bit fileset. The only step really required after my method is using shntool to fix any boundry errors for CD.
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thanks mhibbs +T - I'm gonna try that later on!
Do you know how to do a lot of stuff in wavelab? I'd like to abandon SF at some point...
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to batch process you can also just open the first file in wavelab, then open the master section, mAKE SURE YOUR uv22hr IS SET TO 16-Bit, then hit render, then 'create specific file' then name it accordingly, and then hit batch, and make sure everything is set the way you want it, open all of the files and let her rip ;D
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to batch process you can also just open the first file in wavelab, then open the master section, then hit render, then 'create specific file' then name it accordingly, and then hit batch, and make sure everything is set the way you want it, open all of the files and let her rip ;D
sweet! thanks to you as well +. I knew there was a way to do this stuff, I'm just such a noob to wavelab, that I couldnt figure it out - I was trying to get er workin, but was havin no luck.
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be careful with the batch process, it creates SBE's and the wavs are not identical if do it with the other process...see this whole thread
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=49027.msg678596#msg678596
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My DAW only has 36GB of storage for audio files and I have no problems with space(you guys know how much i tape too).
yes, but you also didn't tape for 8 hours solid for 3 days at OSMF either. No way 36 GB would have gotten you by for that long without offloading somewhere.
Wayne
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My DAW only has 36GB of storage for audio files and I have no problems with space(you guys know how much i tape too).
yes, but you also didn't tape for 8 hours solid for 3 days at OSMF either. No way 36 GB would have gotten you by for that long without offloading somewhere.
Wayne
I'm not as crazy as you are wayne. I did fine w/ ACL this year and some pretty busy weeks since then.
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be careful with the batch process, it creates SBE's and the wavs are not identical if do it with the other process...see this whole thread
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=49027.msg678596#msg678596
Interesting...going to go back and check that out then. I have seen SBEs which didn't surprise (or concern me) since shntool fix lines them back up and pads the last track. The .wav not lining up at the join is certainly a concern which I'm going to check as soon as I get home, although I didn't notice anything audible in the last set I did.
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dont think it was audible...what concerned me the most from that thread is that the wav file if resampled/dithered outside of batch processing a bunch of small files vs doing the whole file at once was not identical....honestly, it may not matter as I couldnt hear an impact, but if a change to my workflow can make it a non issue, it makes it a pretty easy decision
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be careful with the batch process, it creates SBE's and the wavs are not identical if do it with the other process...see this whole thread
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=49027.msg678596#msg678596
Interesting...going to go back and check that out then. I have seen SBEs which didn't surprise (or concern me) since shntool fix lines them back up and pads the last track. The .wav not lining up at the join is certainly a concern which I'm going to check as soon as I get home, although I didn't notice anything audible in the last set I did.
I actually just used the process you outlined above on my original .wavs, before I split them... worked like a charm - thanks for delineating that for me. Appreciate it!
+T
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dont think it was audible...what concerned me the most from that thread is that the wav file if resampled/dithered outside of batch processing a bunch of small files vs doing the whole file at once was not identical....honestly, it may not matter as I couldnt hear an impact, but if a change to my workflow can make it a non issue, it makes it a pretty easy decision
Agreed, and it's likely that Wavelab is introducing the same slight difference in the wav when doing the one big file as well, but there's no way to really compare and discover the difference. In other words, doing all of the small files individually compounds the difference...and I bet it's the dither that's the culprit.
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I did some testing when I got home and had some interesting results. If you're interested, see the other thread....
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=49027.0
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We need 25/50/100GB removeable/archivable media @ less than $1 a disk(preferebly in the .25 range), NOW.
Weeeelll ! Why didn't you say so !
I'll run down to the garage and mix up a batch from some recyclable plastic, silly putty, and a ball of string ;D