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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: potsy on November 08, 2005, 11:10:57 PM
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hi, i'm new to this forum and it looks like there is tons of info here, i'm glad i found it.
sorry if this is covered in another thread, but there are like 987465875 threads on the microtrack.
so, i used the microtrack this weekend for the first time at 2 semi-loud shows. i have core-sound stealth cardiods. i plugged them into the 1/8" in, had the switch set to L before i booted it up, with the latest firmware. i saw that it was peaking, so i lowered the levels as low as they could go. i still saw the peaking lights, and it was maxing out on the level indicator. when i got home, the files were still peaked out like 30% of the time when i went to edit them on my computer later...lots of distortion, basically not useable.
i also have a DAT, so i'm used to being able to adjust the input down to a normal level, even for very loud shows.
does anyone know of something i can do short of using a d/a converter before the microtrack to make the levels manageable? would it make any difference if i used an adapter and ran the mics into the (2) 1/4" inputs?
any help would be greatly appreciated...i don't think i'm going to be using the microtrack much unless i can fix this problem.
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DEFINITELY use the 1/4" TRS inputs. This thing can not handle levels with the 1/8". You'll want something like this I think http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MINI-TRS . You'll have more headroom with the 1/4 inputs. If you have problems clipping with the 1/4 inputs, then you'll need an attenuator until they fix the gain settings. If that's too big, soundpros has some converter boxes that are small as heck that do this as well, just do a search for "microtrack". You'll probably have to run it at the lowest setting with the 1/4 inputs, then you might be lucky enough to have no distortion.
One more thing. Make sure you upgrade the firmware and set the gain selector to L if you haven't.
EDIT AGAIN: Updated the link with a better solution. I forgot soundpros made a mini-version of the converter.
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thanks, i have an adaptor like that aleady, i'll try that the next time and see how it works.
one odd thing i also noticed was that when i lowered the "volume" level to minimum during the show, it seemed to make the levels slightly lower, still peaked though. does that make any sense, or am i imagining it?
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thanks, i have an adaptor like that aleady, i'll try that the next time and see how it works.
one odd thing i also noticed was that when i lowered the "volume" level to minimum during the show, it seemed to make the levels slightly lower, still peaked though. does that make any sense, or am i imagining it?
I think you're imaging that one, unless someone else can straighten that out. Anyways, you probably should have just stuck with the DAT and used that money on getting some better mics, at least until they fix the gain problems. The MT has been nothing but awesome so far for me though.
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yeah, i do alot of stealth taping so the smallness of the MT was a big attraction for me. plus i bet i can get away with telling security its just an i-pod if they check me on the way into a show.
for what its worth, i havent had any problems with it locking up or anything like others on here report, so i think if i can solve the level problem i'll be good to go.
thanks for your help, but i have one other question...in the new firmware i noticed there was a thing on the menu for "scrub audio". what is that?
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yeah, i do alot of stealth taping so the smallness of the MT was a big attraction for me. plus i bet i can get away with telling security its just an i-pod if they check me on the way into a show.
for what its worth, i havent had any problems with it locking up or anything like others on here report, so i think if i can solve the level problem i'll be good to go.
thanks for your help, but i have one other question...in the new firmware i noticed there was a thing on the menu for "scrub audio". what is that?
It says "this is an on/off setting will allow you to hear audio as you rewind and fast-forward through an audio file. When set to on, you will be able to hear bits of the file as you seek. When off, the MicroTrack 24/96 will be silent while seeking". Yeah dude. I got this for the same reason as you. My setup is probably the most stealthy setup around. Good luck man! I'm sure you'll have a different experience with the 1/4 inputs.
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I used the 1/4" inputs direct from the sound board for an outdoor show and the microtrack still peaked like crazy in the L position. Question - can the L position be used for 1/8" mic inputs?? The docs seem to say you need to use the M setting for that (I thought M stood for 'microphone', maybe its Low Med High).
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"to you its a "bug"...to someone who records quiet material, its a feature"
i wouldnt call it a bug, because it seems that the MT is performing as intended by the manufacturer. however, I would call it bad design to have added gain with no option to defeat it.
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You did install the firmware update?
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i plugged them into the 1/8" in, had the switch set to L before i booted it up, with the latest firmware.
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So basically the unit cannot be used for a soundboard patch, even with the 1/4" jacks, unless you also use an attenuator.
I was going to patch into the board for a show next Saturday, so I guess I have to go out and get an attenuator. Sound
professionals doesn't seem to have one that will work with this, anyone have any attenuator pointers?
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DEFINITELY use the 1/4" TRS inputs. This thing can not handle levels with the 1/8". You'll want something like this I think http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MINI-TRS . You'll have more headroom with the 1/4 inputs. If you have problems clipping with the 1/4 inputs, then you'll need an attenuator until they fix the gain settings. If that's too big, soundpros has some converter boxes that are small as heck that do this as well, just do a search for "microtrack". You'll probably have to run it at the lowest setting with the 1/4 inputs, then you might be lucky enough to have no distortion.
One more thing. Make sure you upgrade the firmware and set the gain selector to L if you haven't.
EDIT AGAIN: Updated the link with a better solution. I forgot soundpros made a mini-version of the converter.
what kind of attenuators ? i haven't find in the soundpro page :-[
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DEFINITELY use the 1/4" TRS inputs. This thing can not handle levels with the 1/8". You'll want something like this I think http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MINI-TRS . You'll have more headroom with the 1/4 inputs. If you have problems clipping with the 1/4 inputs, then you'll need an attenuator until they fix the gain settings. If that's too big, soundpros has some converter boxes that are small as heck that do this as well, just do a search for "microtrack". You'll probably have to run it at the lowest setting with the 1/4 inputs, then you might be lucky enough to have no distortion.
One more thing. Make sure you upgrade the firmware and set the gain selector to L if you haven't.
EDIT AGAIN: Updated the link with a better solution. I forgot soundpros made a mini-version of the converter.
many thanks for your advice !
what kind of attenuators ? i haven't find in the soundpro page :-[
shure makes some that i have used in the past with decent results..the had a switchable 15, 20, 25 dB drop if i remember correctly
try searching on bhphoto.com, or sweetwater
there is more to the audio universe than soundprofessionals...although i'm sure if you can and ask them for advice on attenuators they can help you out with a solution
alternatively you can always get handy...try searching google for "DIY dB attenuator"
boogie
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you will need at least 15-20 db attenuation if you want5 to be on the safe side with + 4dbm signal fro normal balance output or about 6-10 db if you pull unbalance -10dbv signal
http://www.dplay.com/book/pgs2e/pads.pdf
figure n-3 good for balance input and output
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DEFINITELY use the 1/4" TRS inputs. This thing can not handle levels with the 1/8". You'll want something like this I think http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MINI-TRS . You'll have more headroom with the 1/4 inputs. If you have problems clipping with the 1/4 inputs, then you'll need an attenuator until they fix the gain settings. If that's too big, soundpros has some converter boxes that are small as heck that do this as well, just do a search for "microtrack". You'll probably have to run it at the lowest setting with the 1/4 inputs, then you might be lucky enough to have no distortion.
One more thing. Make sure you upgrade the firmware and set the gain selector to L if you haven't.
EDIT AGAIN: Updated the link with a better solution. I forgot soundpros made a mini-version of the converter.
what kind of attenuators ? i haven't find in the soundpro page :-[
shure makes some that i have used in the past with decent results..the had a switchable 15, 20, 25 dB drop if i remember correctly
try searching on bhphoto.com, or sweetwater
there is more to the audio universe than soundprofessionals...although i'm sure if you can and ask them for advice on attenuators they can help you out with a solution
alternatively you can always get handy...try searching google for "DIY dB attenuator"
boogie
No luck with bhphoto or sweetwater.
Its really amazing that someone has to go through this much trouble just to get an appropriate signal
with the MT.
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No luck with bhphoto or sweetwater.
Its really amazing that someone has to go through this much trouble just to get an appropriate signal
with the MT.
B&H
AT 8202 (switchable -10-20-30 db) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=324507&is=REG&addedTroughType=search)
Whirlwind IMPAD30 (fixed -30db) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=324507&is=REG&addedTroughType=search)
Sweetwater
Pro Co Max10 (fixed -10dB) (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX10/)
Pro Co Max20 (fixed -20dB) (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX20/)
Pro Co Max30 (fixed -30dB) (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX30/)
Froogle
And a Froogle search reveals boatloads of retailers (http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=shure+a15as&btnG=Search+Froogle&hl=en&show=dd) for the Shure A15AS (switchable -15-20-25 dB)
Local
Additionally, your local musician gear shop probably carries them in stock, and if not will likely order whatever you wish.
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10db wouldn't be enought to be on the safe side with maximum 20 dbu out from console
the 30 might be to much
better make the attenuation directly in your cable if the rig is working that way - less joints and less weight , the same attenuation you can do with 10 resistors which cost 2$ and if you dont solder its not more the 30( half hour work) in your local electronic fixer shop
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Anyone have some advice at running tape out of an MP2 to 1/4" line in on the MT?
How have you guys who are running analog 1/4" in on the MT been successful?
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you need 6-10 db attenuators to run it with 8 dbv maximum the mp-2 deliver before start to clip or if you don't insert these avoid to run hotter then 12 dbu on the mp-2, you can calibrate the limiters for 10 dbu
but the att is still better way for proper working
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No luck with bhphoto or sweetwater.
Its really amazing that someone has to go through this much trouble just to get an appropriate signal
with the MT.
B&H
AT 8202 (switchable -10-20-30 db) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=324507&is=REG&addedTroughType=search)
Whirlwind IMPAD30 (fixed -30db) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=324507&is=REG&addedTroughType=search)
Sweetwater
Pro Co Max10 (fixed -10dB) (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX10/)
Pro Co Max20 (fixed -20dB) (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX20/)
Pro Co Max30 (fixed -30dB) (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX30/)
Froogle
And a Froogle search reveals boatloads of retailers (http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=shure+a15as&btnG=Search+Froogle&hl=en&show=dd) for the Shure A15AS (switchable -15-20-25 dB)
Local
Additionally, your local musician gear shop probably carries them in stock, and if not will likely order whatever you wish.
Right. I saw all those. They require XLR male/female. I already have adapters for the 1/8" to 1/4", and now I have to also get
an adapter for the 1/4" two channel board patch to xlr, and then another adapter for the xlr out of the attenuator to the two 1/4" inputs on the MT?
I appreciate the pointers, but really, cable > adapter > attenuator > adaptor > cable is a pretty absurd set-up just to get appropriate levels on the MT.
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No luck with bhphoto or sweetwater.
Its really amazing that someone has to go through this much trouble just to get an appropriate signal
with the MT.
B&H
AT 8202 (switchable -10-20-30 db) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=324507&is=REG&addedTroughType=search)
Whirlwind IMPAD30 (fixed -30db) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=324507&is=REG&addedTroughType=search)
Sweetwater
Pro Co Max10 (fixed -10dB) (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX10/)
Pro Co Max20 (fixed -20dB) (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX20/)
Pro Co Max30 (fixed -30dB) (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX30/)
Froogle
And a Froogle search reveals boatloads of retailers (http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=shure+a15as&btnG=Search+Froogle&hl=en&show=dd) for the Shure A15AS (switchable -15-20-25 dB)
Local
Additionally, your local musician gear shop probably carries them in stock, and if not will likely order whatever you wish.
Right. I saw all those. They require XLR male/female. I already have adapters for the 1/8" to 1/4", and now I have to also get
an adapter for the 1/4" two channel board patch to xlr, and then another adapter for the xlr out of the attenuator to the two 1/4" inputs on the MT?
I appreciate the pointers, but really, cable > adapter > attenuator > adaptor > cable is a pretty absurd set-up just to get appropriate levels on the MT.
Hey if your still looking to get some attenuators I've got a couple for sale here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=53560.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=53560.0)
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Right. I saw all those. They require XLR male/female. I already have adapters for the 1/8" to 1/4", and now I have to also get
an adapter for the 1/4" two channel board patch to xlr, and then another adapter for the xlr out of the attenuator to the two 1/4" inputs on the MT?
I appreciate the pointers, but really, cable > adapter > attenuator > adaptor > cable is a pretty absurd set-up just to get appropriate levels on the MT.
Ah, you don't want to use adapters. So make your own attenuators from scratch with the connectors you want. Or modify the XLR attenuators to use the connectors you desire. Or find someone who will do either of the previous two for you. Or ask the sound engineer to turn the levels down on the board output. Or...just use the adapters.
I run an XLR (AES1) out of my V3, into an impedance transformer (XLR-female on input side, BNC-male on output side), then a 75-ohm cable coax cable with BNC female on one side and RCA-male on the other. The RCA plugs into the MT. Problem solved. I just don't see what the big deal is with using adapters.
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i taped a show 2 nights ago (drums and tuba) that was loud, but not super loud, in a small bar. this time i plugged into the (2) 1/4" inputs instead of the 1/8" (as I had been in the past, with poor results) on the MT. the levels were alot better this time, and i could actually adjust it so that it wasn't peaking. i even was able to reboot it with the sensitivty switch on "M" and there was no peaking. thanks alot for the help guys...i need to try this setup out a few more times to be sure, but hopefully i won't need an attenuator after all.
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Well, I took all of those suggestions before I read that post!
I plugged into a fairly small board last night, Auxiliary RCA outs > 1/4" in on MT, and the levels were quite low. I used the +25 boost on the MT and got decent enough levels and did some more boosting in Soundforge. The recording came out quite nicely.
On Wednesday, I used the Core Sound Cardiods > 1/8" to 1/4" adapter > MT, and got very light signals again. It was a fairly quiet acoustic/vocal ensemble concert. So I switched to the 1/8" plug directly on the fly and got enough signal to once again make a decent recording so that Soundforge could be used for post-production. That recording is currently being torrented here:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=69302
At this point, the only distorted recording I experienced was pre-firmware update, while using different mics from the CSCs. I don't expect to have peak level problems, as long as I come prepared to use the 1/4" adapter, and use the proper line/mic setting.