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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: J.T.L on December 19, 2005, 10:45:58 PM
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...is up.
http://m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&product=196cc4c35a380d800a80448f139bcfe7&showbeta=1
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Changes from v1.2.0 (beta) to v1.2.3:
General Fixes:
- Record time available in main screen counts down from the lesser of space available, or 2GB file limit.
- Improved CF/MicroDrive formatting with media that was pre-formatted.
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So no 24/96 via SPDIF or resolution for 2 gb limit, or am I missing something?
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Dunno, download it and try it out.
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So no 24/96 via SPDIF or resolution for 2 gb limit, or am I missing something?
Not yet, at least according to the release notes - though I'm still holding out hope for both. Makes sense to me that they're addressing the other stuff first. Looks like the primary fix in 1.2.3 is fixing the time remaining counter. No point in delivering the 2GB auto-split before the counter fix. The 2GB auto-split wouldn't do you any good until the time counter's fixed, anyway. Here's hoping we're getting close to 24/96 and auto-split fixes...
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Sorry John, but I don't have one. Not trying to be a downer. I just read what they listed as changes from the last update and figured these were still unresolved. I really want the MT to work so I can join the 24 bit team!
Changes from v1.2.0 (beta) to v1.2.3:
General Fixes:
- Record time available in main screen counts down from the lesser of space available, or 2GB file limit.
- Improved CF/MicroDrive formatting with media that was pre-formatted.
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I gotcha. A lot of times fixing some issues can help others, so what's listed in the update may not be the only fixes in store. I wont be able to check it out until Thursday, though...
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So what else does that leave? Did the last firmware update fix the meter issues 100%?
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The levels, I thought were pretty good with the last release.
Hopefully this release will fix the microdrive issue with the faulty time remaining thing. I'd love to try it out tonight, but I'm drunk and need to get to bed, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow after work.
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So no 24/96 via SPDIF or resolution for 2 gb limit, or am I missing something?
Not yet, at least according to the release notes - though I'm still holding out hope for both. Makes sense to me that they're addressing the other stuff first. Looks like the primary fix in 1.2.3 is fixing the time remaining counter. No point in delivering the 2GB auto-split before the counter fix. The 2GB auto-split wouldn't do you any good until the time counter's fixed, anyway. Here's hoping we're getting close to 24/96 and auto-split fixes...
good point brian!
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Although I doubt it, I wonder if this means it has a 2GB atuosplit?
Continues to work if file was closed because of max file size or no media full
I don't remember it failing to function when the 2GB limit was hit, just that it would stop recording.
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Although I doubt it, I wonder if this means it has a 2GB atuosplit?
Continues to work if file was closed because of max file size or no media full
I don't remember it failing to function when the 2GB limit was hit, just that it would stop recording.
Nope - that was one of the issues fixed in the last beta release. They only listed 2 fixes for this one (they're above).
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No point in delivering the 2GB auto-split before the counter fix. The 2GB auto-split wouldn't do you any good until the time counter's fixed, anyway.
I don't follow. The counter is low priority as long as it just splits at 2gb and keeps recording until media full.. I would even wear a watch if necessary.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. The counter issue is not merely a reporting issue. The recorder actually stops when the falsely reported timer countdown reaches zero. Sure, I suppose if there was an auto-split, it would automatically start a new file at that point whether it had reached 2GB or not, but...IMO it makes more sense to fix the obvious, fairly fundamental bugs first, then implement new functionality.
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I doubt we're ever going to see 96/24 from spdif. I don't think the thing has a large enough buffer to handle the data stream at that speed. It's spooling in faster than it can be written to the card. I've seen 88.2/24 work in brief testing though. Despite the difference of 7.8khz, it might even work better for mastering to CD, as it's an even muliple of the destination bitrate.
The channel swapping is as likely and spdif format issue according to Doug. He thinks the format has always had some ideosyncrasies that may never be fully addressed.
Auto-splitting at the 2GB limit would be nice, but being that the MT doesn't appear to have a "roll-on buffer", I doubt it could buffer enough data to allow the unit to write the current file and start a new one without gaps, and you could eject/feed a new DAT into a deck faster than this thing appears to start a new file.
All things considered, I've found it to be an able replacement for my ageing JB3 at the least...
Rick
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I doubt we're ever going to see 96/24 from spdif. I don't think the thing has a large enough buffer to handle the data stream at that speed.
Does anybody here know how much RAM the device has? 8? 16?
At 563KB/s (or so) at 24/96 you can buffer enough to cover a small delay with just a few megs RAM.
Most important is sustained write speed to CF.
It can be done on SD cards, so why not on CF?
Anybody has more accurate info?
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I doubt we're ever going to see 96/24 from spdif. I don't think the thing has a large enough buffer to handle the data stream at that speed.
this device can record 24/96 from the analog inputs, I don't see how an S/PDIF data stream would require more buffer to record the data. regardless of whether the digital data to be recorded is coming from the internal A/D chip or via the S/PDIF input, seems to me like it's the same about of data per second. which would make 24/96 via S/PDIF entirely possible
you could eject/feed a new DAT into a deck faster than this thing appears to start a new file.
I don't know what kind of DAT deck you've used, but, in my experience, closing a file and starting a new file is definitely quicker on the MT than switching DATs on my D8.
anyway, here's hoping they can get it all resolved. I'll be using the new firmware on Thursday night :)
- Jason
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I guess most of us are too young, to have tape flipped... But I was getting into the scene when that was an issue. IMO this is a lot easier. I had this phish tape that was split in the middle of a raging whipping post jam...
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I am moving my DATs to DVD using the Microtrack. I am using a SV-3700 into the MT. After I updated I noticed that the Microtrack will not start until I hit play on the SV-3700. Use to be I would let one or two seconds go by before I started the tape. Now it stays at zero on the timmer when there is no levels. Soon as I start the tape the timmer and recording starts up. Kind of like a stealth pause.
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could be that the panasonic doesn't put out a continous clock signal. As in when it's not playing, there's no sync output that the MT can lock to. The MT needs to lock to something to record...
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On the old drivers it worked the old way. With the new drivers the new stealth pause. Something changed.
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The jb3 is the same way. If there is no digital signal, it does not bother storing the silence.
That once helped me quickly find an AES cable problem at a show..
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On the old drivers it worked the old way. With the new drivers the new stealth pause. Something changed.
No doubt something has changed, I was speculating on why it's behaving like it is. The updated firmware must be more picky about syncing before recording.
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It does not stop the recording at the end of the A-time, pause or stop on the DAT. Only at the begining of recording the file on the MT.
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. The counter issue is not merely a reporting issue. The recorder actually stops when the falsely reported timer countdown reaches zero. Sure, I suppose if there was an auto-split, it would automatically start a new file at that point whether it had reached 2GB or not, but...IMO it makes more sense to fix the obvious, fairly fundamental bugs first, then implement new functionality.
The issue here appears to be that the Microtrack does not properly recognize volumes over a certain size. Maybe it's 5GB, definitely 6GB volumes are not handled properly. 4GB volumes, Microdrives included, do not have this problem. As a workaround, I've found that if you copy 2 GB's of data to a 6GB Hitachi Microdrive (or make a 2GB recording on it) the problem goes away. If you use the method of making a dummy recording to fill the space, what you can do is as soon as you've made a couple of 'real' recordings, enough to take up another 2GB of space, you can just bring up the 'dummy' file on the Microtrack and delete it, thereby freeing up that space for yet another 'real' 2GB recording. Until that first 2GB of space is 'used up', the Microtrack thinks it's dealing with a 2GB volume and will limit your recording time accordingly (in other words if you have the first 500MB of space used up it will only allow recording a 1.5GB (2GB - 1.5GB = 500MB). At least that's my experience.
J.T.
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4GB volumes, Microdrives included, do not have this problem.
My experience with two different MTs and CF cards (both 4GB, Kingston Elite Pro 45x) indicates it's still a problem - for me. I've not yet tested on 1.2.3, but I had the problem on 1.1.5 and 1.2.0. I hope 1.2.3 fixes it - I rarely see performances longer than 2hrs at a stretch, so if the latest firmware allows the full 2hrs as it should (twice on each card), then I'm all smiles.
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. The counter issue is not merely a reporting issue. The recorder actually stops when the falsely reported timer countdown reaches zero. Sure, I suppose if there was an auto-split, it would automatically start a new file at that point whether it had reached 2GB or not, but...IMO it makes more sense to fix the obvious, fairly fundamental bugs first, then implement new functionality.
The issue here appears to be that the Microtrack does not properly recognize volumes over a certain size. Maybe it's 5GB, definitely 6GB volumes are not handled properly. 4GB volumes, Microdrives included, do not have this problem. As a workaround, I've found that if you copy 2 GB's of data to a 6GB Hitachi Microdrive (or make a 2GB recording on it) the problem goes away. If you use the method of making a dummy recording to fill the space, what you can do is as soon as you've made a couple of 'real' recordings, enough to take up another 2GB of space, you can just bring up the 'dummy' file on the Microtrack and delete it, thereby freeing up that space for yet another 'real' 2GB recording. Until that first 2GB of space is 'used up', the Microtrack thinks it's dealing with a 2GB volume and will limit your recording time accordingly (in other words if you have the first 500MB of space used up it will only allow recording a 1.5GB (2GB - 1.5GB = 500MB). At least that's my experience.
J.T.
Great information +t.
Like Skalinder said, I hope 1.2.3 fixes the problem, but if not, I guess I'll be making dummy files on my microdrive.
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FWIW: upgraded yesterday and used the device last night. It did record. Currently I am transfering the recording to hear how it sounds. Even at USB 1.1 it is twice the old speed! Whew! :)
Update: So we got what appears to be a nice recording. Overall margin is less than 6 dB (got to cut off pre and post show parts) with the MT at line in and levels all the way down. See what I posted about earlier? No room left to go down with levels when in front of the stacks or something. (and even now you could feel the music here and there)
Maybe this also illustrates that the gain setup of the MT needs some adjustment.
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at least they are cranking out the updates at a regular pace...
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The channel swapping is as likely and spdif format issue according to Doug. He thinks the format has always had some ideosyncrasies that may never be fully addressed.
Rick
Damn, I wish they would have fixed the channel flipping. I don't get why it should be flipping on SPDIF in, look at how many other devices can take a 24 bit SPDIF in without channel flipping. Yes, I know it is not a huge deal and that you can either reverse the mic>pre connections or flip in post, but for some reason this issue bugs me. :P
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The channel swapping is as likely and spdif format issue according to Doug. He thinks the format has always had some ideosyncrasies that may never be fully addressed.
Rick
Damn, I wish they would have fixed the channel flipping. I don't get why it should be flipping on SPDIF in, look at how many other devices can take a 24 bit SPDIF in without channel flipping. Yes, I know it is not a huge deal and that you can either reverse the mic>pre connections or flip in post, but for some reason this issue bugs me. :P
This issue is far worse for me than the 2G limit. I've made 3 or 4 recordings at 24bit that would have gone beyond the 2G limit. So far I haven't had a problem starting a new file. No music lost, not even any inter-song talking lost, just a little bit of the crowd. So not really a big deal thus far.
But the channel-swapping. Argh! Not consistent at all, sometime it swaps, others it doesn't. So I can't just swap my cables. Swapping in post isn't a huge deal, but knowing when to is. Each set I've got to remember to snap fingers in front of one mic to double-check the swapping, and then at the end of each set I need to do the same thing (since I might need to start a new file mid set due to the 2g thing). Then I need to remember to look for those early recording and late recording snaps to double check the channel status (and do this before I use Cooledit to trim off the early and late excess). Total PITA. Really, if it just consistently swapped, it wouldn't be an issue.
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But the channel-swapping. Argh! Not consistent at all, sometime it swaps, others it doesn't. So I can't just swap my cables. Swapping in post isn't a huge deal, but knowing when to is. Each set I've got to remember to snap fingers in front of one mic to double-check the swapping, and then at the end of each set I need to do the same thing (since I might need to start a new file mid set due to the 2g thing).
Exactly.. There are the cases where I'm giving an opening band a copy of their show. It is something I'll never listen to But if the channels are swapped funky, it makes you look bad. Then there are cases of shows that you might not get around to dealing with for months.. And you're stuck trying to remember the stage layout, etc, to decipher the audible queues..
My Pat Metheny Hill Auditorium on the MT was cut short by the 2GB limit. Fortunately, it was just a backup for mk21>722. But the 4061>mt on the metheny sounds Really good.
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But the channel-swapping. Argh! Not consistent at all, sometime it swaps, others it doesn't. So I can't just swap my cables. Swapping in post isn't a huge deal, but knowing when to is. Each set I've got to remember to snap fingers in front of one mic to double-check the swapping, and then at the end of each set I need to do the same thing (since I might need to start a new file mid set due to the 2g thing). Then I need to remember to look for those early recording and late recording snaps to double check the channel status (and do this before I use Cooledit to trim off the early and late excess). Total PITA. Really, if it just consistently swapped, it wouldn't be an issue.
here's what I do for the channel swapping issue, which I find to be easier than snapping into the mics.
get the V3 turned on (but with phantom off), and then start the recording on the MT. turn on the phantom power to the left mic first, wait a second or two, and then throw the switch to the right channel. When the phantom power comes on, it'll put a bit spike in the signal. when you go look at the recording afterwards on your computer, it'll be obvious if the channels need to be swapped or not.
also, instead of snapping at the end of the set (after a 2 gig split), just turn off phantom to the left channel first, then the right. IMO, this is also easier and quicker to spot than trying to find the snap noises.
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But the channel-swapping. Argh! Not consistent at all, sometime it swaps, others it doesn't. So I can't just swap my cables.
Are you still seeing this with 1.2.3. I no longer am.
J.T.
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My experience with two different MTs and CF cards (both 4GB, Kingston Elite Pro 45x) indicates it's still a problem - for me. I've not yet tested on 1.2.3, but I had the problem on 1.1.5 and 1.2.0. I hope 1.2.3 fixes it - I rarely see performances longer than 2hrs at a stretch, so if the latest firmware allows the full 2hrs as it should (twice on each card), then I'm all smiles.
It was with 1.2.3 that I'm saying the behavior is as I've described. I've even narrowed down more closely when the problem happens (how much free space triggers the counter problem).
With less than 4,289,597,440 bytes free on the disk or card, everything works great. A 4GB Hitachi microdrive formatted for me to have 4,087,689,216 bytes free so it didn't have the problem. A Trancend 4GB CF card had 4,063,481,856 bytes free so also was not a problem. With more than 4,289,875,968 bytes free the problem surfaced. Again, since you can't get this many bytes free on the 4GB volumes you should not be able to encounter this problem at all. If you do I think it's a different problem with similar symptoms or a misunderstanding of what problem I am describing.
I hope this info helps.
Happy recording,
J.T.
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I haven't tried the 1.2.3 firmware yet, tonight's show will be the first, so I don't know if it solves the swapping.
Jason -- thanks for the tip, but that won't work for me. I don't use phantom power, I use the JKLabs box for actives and to power the capsules. Either on or off, not selectable per channel. Good method for other folks to use though.
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It was with 1.2.3 that I'm saying the behavior is as I've described.
Ohhhhhh...gotcha, I somehow missed it was in 1.2.3 that you encountered the issue. Dufus me, it's in a 1.2.3 thread, after all! Thanks for the info, J.T.
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On the old drivers it worked the old way. With the new drivers the new stealth pause. Something changed.
No doubt something has changed, I was speculating on why it's behaving like it is. The updated firmware must be more picky about syncing before recording.
FWIW, using mme>MT, when i pull the spdif cable out, the unit stops recording. doesn't close the file or anything, just stops, then restarts as soon as you plug the spdif back in. if you try you start a file with nothing plugged in spdif, the unit will not record. YMMV...
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On the old drivers it worked the old way. With the new drivers the new stealth pause. Something changed.
No doubt something has changed, I was speculating on why it's behaving like it is. The updated firmware must be more picky about syncing before recording.
FWIW, using mme>MT, when i pull the spdif cable out, the unit stops recording. doesn't close the file or anything, just stops, then restarts as soon as you plug the spdif back in. if you try you start a file with nothing plugged in spdif, the unit will not record. YMMV...
This was the case with the previous (1.2.0) firmware also, as is the case with most dig-in devices. No signal-ee, not start-ee...
Rick
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Yea, or at least the case with digital recorders that do not resample the data. If it is to not resample, it must lock to the clock data of the incoming spdif stream. No stream, no clock, no movement.
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I was using 1.2.0 when I started moving my DATs to Disk. It would start without my DAT deck starting. Now after I updated the MT to 1.2.3 it will not start until I start the deck. I like the feature myself.
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My experience with two different MTs and CF cards (both 4GB, Kingston Elite Pro 45x) indicates it's still a problem - for me. I've not yet tested on 1.2.3, but I had the problem on 1.1.5 and 1.2.0. I hope 1.2.3 fixes it - I rarely see performances longer than 2hrs at a stretch, so if the latest firmware allows the full 2hrs as it should (twice on each card), then I'm all smiles.
It was with 1.2.3 that I'm saying the behavior is as I've described. I've even narrowed down more closely when the problem happens (how much free space triggers the counter problem).
With less than 4,289,597,440 bytes free on the disk or card, everything works great. A 4GB Hitachi microdrive formatted for me to have 4,087,689,216 bytes free so it didn't have the problem. A Trancend 4GB CF card had 4,063,481,856 bytes free so also was not a problem. With more than 4,289,875,968 bytes free the problem surfaced. Again, since you can't get this many bytes free on the 4GB volumes you should not be able to encounter this problem at all. If you do I think it's a different problem with similar symptoms or a misunderstanding of what problem I am describing.
I hope this info helps.
Happy recording,
J.T.
dumb question. if i want to put a dummy file on the microdrive, can I just put a 2gb wav file from my computer on the drive via usb and still have the option of deleting it off of the drive later at the show without formatting the card, or do i need to actually record a 2gb wav onto the drive via the mt to have the option of deleting.
I'm going out taping tonight and haven't had a chance to put the dummy file on the drive yet, so hopefully i can just do it with a quick transfer when i get home from work.
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dumb question. if i want to put a dummy file on the microdrive, can I just put a 2gb wav file from my computer on the drive via usb and still have the option of deleting it off of the drive later at the show without formatting the card, or do i need to actually record a 2gb wav onto the drive via the mt to have the option of deleting.
I'm going out taping tonight and haven't had a chance to put the dummy file on the drive yet, so hopefully i can just do it with a quick transfer when i get home from work.
Yeah, any audio file should be just fine. Just make sure after you load it that you boot up the Microtrack and see if it can be seen by the player portion. If so you'll be able to delete it.
P.S. Make sure you name it something really obvious so that you don't accidentally delete the wrong file. That would be a major bummer. Maybe that's a feature request, the ability to individualy lock files from deleting after they've been recorded.
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one thing that I just noticed about firmware 1.2.3, which I haven't seen written here yet. In preparation for tonight's show, I formatted my 4 gig CF card, set it to S/PDIF input, and then to 24 bit.
I then hit "record time available", and it shows me two times
"Total time on media: 01:58:10"
and then right below it
"Max time per file: 00:57:52"
obviously, it was assuming 96kHz, and I'll get twice that when I send it a 24/48 signal from the V3. I just thought that it was cool that they've added that small feature. probably implemented because they said they fixed the count-down timer issue.
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I just remembered a feature I'd wanted when the MT first came out - anyone else? : the ability for the MT to sleep and then quickly wake up to record to save battery.
Anyway, it's good that they're keeping the updates coming.
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I just remembered a feature I'd wanted when the MT first came out - anyone else? : the ability for the MT to sleep and then quickly wake up to record to save battery.
if you have an external battery pack (or if you have it plugged into the wall), I've found that if you hold down power and turn off the unit, but do not unplug the external power, when you turn it back on, it's almost like it wasn't all the way off, because it'll start back up immediately. Likewise, if you turn it off with the external power still plugged in, and then remove the external power, the screen flashes, as if it's going all the way off at that point.
I haven't done any tests on battery life to see if that little trick actually saves power. and also, if you're running an external battery, you're probably not worried about the battery life anyways, so I don't know how helpful this actually is to anyone. just something I've noticed.
edit to add -
great experience with the new firmware last night. this thing just seems to be getter more and more stable. Running at 24/48 via S/PDIF, I had to deal with the 2 gig issue. luckily, I was anticipating it, so at 1.5 hours into the first set, they took a short break to introduce a guest, and I stopped the recording and started a new one, no music missed.
Also - all three files, the channels were correct, and do not need to be swapped in post. I haven't done any at home tests about the channel swapping, but three correct files in a row never happened before. perhaps they've fixed the channel swap issue with this firmware. can anyone confirm with similar experiences (or deny with more channel swapping experiences) ??
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I then hit "record time available", and it shows me two times
"Total time on media: 01:58:10"
and then right below it
"Max time per file: 00:57:52"
I noticed that on Aaron's as well, however, it didn't happen on mine with the microdrive. So I'm thinking it only works on CF right now.
Also, from watching the levels on the MT, it looks like the channels were right no mine as well, but I haven't had the chance to make sure yet.
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Just updated from 1.0.2 to 1.2.3 the first thing i noticed
is that the rocker switch behaves too sensitive now,
i actually preferred the original less sensitive version.
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Just updated from 1.0.2 to 1.2.3 the first thing i noticed
is that the rocker switch behaves too sensitive now,
i actually preferred the original less sensitive version.
Actually happened in the last update (1.2.0 I believe). I think they toned it down a bit in this one, but IMO it needs to be even less sensitive.
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Agreed. The [NAV] wheel and level control buttons are too sensitive. I probably will sell my MT for this reason, if it's not fixed in the next firmware update.
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I then hit "record time available", and it shows me two times
"Total time on media: 01:58:10"
and then right below it
"Max time per file: 00:57:52"
I noticed that on Aaron's as well, however, it didn't happen on mine with the microdrive. So I'm thinking it only works on CF right now.
Also, from watching the levels on the MT, it looks like the channels were right no mine as well, but I haven't had the chance to make sure yet.
The 'max time per file' field shows up a cards and drives that are larger than the 2GB limit (on cards 2GB and less, the max time per file and the total time left on the media would always be the same). So the 'max time per file' number will show up on both Microdrives and Compact Flash cards if they are over 2GB. It should show up on 6GB Microdrives but doesn't when they are blank which is most likely intertwined with the problem where the Microtrack treats those drives as if they were 2GB drives until they have less than 4GB available on them.
J.T.
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makes sense.
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GODDAMN M-AUDIO.
They've not responded to my emails in 2 weeks. Last thing they told me was to contact them for return information, which I did, and they've never replied. They were supposed to send me a repair ticket # and an address/dept. to ship it to...which again they've never done.
So tonight I get home, find a phone number, and give 'em a call....and now 2 hours later I'm still on hold. They close in 33 minutes, and I can imagine at 9:00 I'll get a message saying their department is closed.
This is BS....
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Weird.
Even I get a reply from M-Audio after a day or two...
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Weird.
Even I get a reply from M-Audio after a day or two...
I think they have been fairly quick with support responses, but Nick has been waiting a ridiculous amount of time for an RMA.
dB-
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Weird.
Even I get a reply from M-Audio after a day or two...
I think they have been fairly quick with support responses, but Nick has been waiting a ridiculous amount of time for an RMA.
dB-
My prediction was correct. At exactly 9:00 CST I was informed their offices were closed.
I was extremely pissed last night, luckily I've calmed down considerably since. When I was originally emailing back and forth with tech support questions I'd always get an answer within a day, usually in a matter of a few hours. Ever since I convinced them the problem was not something that could be resolved with a firware update (unit will not even power up, so that's impossible to do anyway) or through email - that it was a legitimate repair issue - they've completely ignored me.
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That sucks. Maybe get whomever you bought it from to get in touch with their rep.
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Yeah, I'd take it back to GC and change it out. That is horse shit. You could always get a receipt dated within 30 days from someone and return it?
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My experience with two different MTs and CF cards (both 4GB, Kingston Elite Pro 45x) indicates it's still a problem - for me. I've not yet tested on 1.2.3, but I had the problem on 1.1.5 and 1.2.0. I hope 1.2.3 fixes it - I rarely see performances longer than 2hrs at a stretch, so if the latest firmware allows the full 2hrs as it should (twice on each card), then I'm all smiles.
It was with 1.2.3 that I'm saying the behavior is as I've described. I've even narrowed down more closely when the problem happens (how much free space triggers the counter problem).
With less than 4,289,597,440 bytes free on the disk or card, everything works great. A 4GB Hitachi microdrive formatted for me to have 4,087,689,216 bytes free so it didn't have the problem. A Trancend 4GB CF card had 4,063,481,856 bytes free so also was not a problem. With more than 4,289,875,968 bytes free the problem surfaced. Again, since you can't get this many bytes free on the 4GB volumes you should not be able to encounter this problem at all. If you do I think it's a different problem with similar symptoms or a misunderstanding of what problem I am describing.
I hope this info helps.
Happy recording,
J.T.
J.T. - I am wondering how you fill up the 2 gigs. I have a 6GB Microdrive and I had this problem my last Friday. I know you said you used a wav file. Did you just recorde one that was 2 gigs? I have a few shows next week and don't want to run into this timing issue again. Let me know.
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If you find any problems:
PLEASE send them to the M-Audio support <techsupt@m-audio.com>. Describe clearly what you experienced, how to produce, etc, etc.
Please do so they can fix the issues.
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Hopefully this firmware update will fix what nailed me at both Panic shows this weekend. First of all I'm only doing 16 bit 44.1 on a 4 gig card and I reformat my card before each show.
The first set on Friday was 1.06 gigs. After the set ended I save the file, shut down and restarte to reboot the firmware, and fired right up so I could not worry about when the 2nd set was going to start. It recorded about 50 minutes before the set started and the whole second set, but it stopped right before the encore at 1.54 gigs :Huh?
On Saturday there were 3 sets and I was putting much less lead time before each of them. The first one came in at 870 MB, the 2nd one was 546MB, and when I started up for the 3rd set the time remaing meter said I had 1:53 left. I knew if that held true I was going to get screwed. Sure enough during the encore it stopped when it hit the 1:53 mark saying "media full" which was 1.15 gigs. That was less than 3 gigs total!!!!! I should have had plenty of time left. In retrospect I should have saved the file during the encore break an started a new one, but it doesn't make any sense why it was stopping.
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Which version of the firmware were you using??
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Which version of the firmware were you using??
1.1.5
Also, it now says I have 58:18 max recording time left.
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Which version of the firmware were you using??
1.1.5
Also, it now says I have 58:18 max recording time left.
was there any particular reason why you were NOT using the latest firmware available (1.2.3) ?? seems to me like they keep on fixing more bugs and each firmware is more stable than the last (although, it hasn't crashed on me since the original firmware anyway). With 1.2.3, they have addressed the bug about the wrong count down time. update your firmware and you should no longer have that problem.
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updating the firmware doesn't really help with the timer countdown issue. every time i have used the mt with the 1.2.3 firmware the countdown timer doesn't work accurately. if i record a 1st set of one hour my next file can only be 50 minutes. it won't reset and allow another 2 gigs to be recorded. then when the 50 minutes runs out it says media full, saves the file and stops. then a new full 2 gig file can be started. i am using a 6 gig microdrive that is formated before every show. this is a huge issue that needs to be addressed.
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this is a huge issue that needs to be addressed.
You did email M-Audio tech support about this bug?
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updating the firmware doesn't really help with the timer countdown issue. every time i have used the mt with the 1.2.3 firmware the countdown timer doesn't work accurately. if i record a 1st set of one hour my next file can only be 50 minutes. it won't reset and allow another 2 gigs to be recorded. then when the 50 minutes runs out it says media full, saves the file and stops. then a new full 2 gig file can be started. i am using a 6 gig microdrive that is formated before every show. this is a huge issue that needs to be addressed.
other people are having the same issue, but only with cards greater than 4 gigs. jtessier did a great job summarizing the exact problem earlier in this thread, and a good work-around until M-Audio fixes it. in the meantime, you can use his workaround, or just get a 4 GB CF card and you're good to go.
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Hopefully this firmware update will fix what nailed me at both Panic shows this weekend. First of all I'm only doing 16 bit 44.1 on a 4 gig card and I reformat my card before each show.
The first set on Friday was 1.06 gigs. After the set ended I save the file, shut down and restarte to reboot the firmware, and fired right up so I could not worry about when the 2nd set was going to start. It recorded about 50 minutes before the set started and the whole second set, but it stopped right before the encore at 1.54 gigs :Huh?
On Saturday there were 3 sets and I was putting much less lead time before each of them. The first one came in at 870 MB, the 2nd one was 546MB, and when I started up for the 3rd set the time remaing meter said I had 1:53 left. I knew if that held true I was going to get screwed. Sure enough during the encore it stopped when it hit the 1:53 mark saying "media full" which was 1.15 gigs. That was less than 3 gigs total!!!!! I should have had plenty of time left. In retrospect I should have saved the file during the encore break an started a new one, but it doesn't make any sense why it was stopping.
Maybe it was because of that HPF you run >:D Update the firmware Jeff, I run at 16bit as well and have no issues <knock, knock> ... Oh yeah happy New Year 8)
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In another post it stated that the spidf in worked at 24/96 so, I set up and tried it and yes, the spidf will take a 24/96 signal now. Do you think they know it or in working on something else this problem got fixed?
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Maybe it was because of that HPF you run >:D Update the firmware Jeff, I run at 16bit as well and have no issues <knock, knock> ... Oh yeah happy New Year 8)
I updated the firmware last night. I'll have to test it out at home as I don't plan on taping anything until Tea Leaf Green is in town February 4th.
Happy New Years to you too. We had a mini Floyd Fest reunion at the Georgian Terrace. I stayed with Steve and Sarah and Bill and Sue.
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J.T. - I am wondering how you fill up the 2 gigs. I have a 6GB Microdrive and I had this problem my last Friday. I know you said you used a wav file. Did you just recorde one that was 2 gigs? I have a few shows next week and don't want to run into this timing issue again. Let me know.
Yeah I just clear off the card set it the do an analog 24/95 recording and let it go until it stops (which should happen when it hits the 2GB limit). It might not have passed the threshold of where the problem goes away so to check this you can go to the Rec Time available screen. If it shows you two times, one time for the total time left on the card and another time listing how long a 2GB file will record then you are ok. If it only lists the first number (total time on disk) then you need to record some more. Note that later, once you have actually done some more recording and get down to having less than 2GB free the rec time available screen will go back to only showing the total time available but at this capacity this is correct behavior. It's only when there is more than 2GB available that it's supposed to show you the two different numbers.
J.T.
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Also - all three files, the channels were correct, and do not need to be swapped in post. I haven't done any at home tests about the channel swapping, but three correct files in a row never happened before. perhaps they've fixed the channel swap issue with this firmware. can anyone confirm with similar experiences (or deny with more channel swapping experiences) ??
Sounds good, how has it behaved since then? My new faster 4GB CF is in transit, or I'd run some tests myself on this. :P :)
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I did what jtessier suggested and occupied up to 4,289,597,440 bytes) I created a file that is about 1:50 made from various clips recorded at 24/48 from the previous concert. Tested it and seems to be fine to me. Don't have the time issue anymore. I will test it some more on Friday, but I think it should be good. Thanks for the advice jtessier.
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Also - all three files, the channels were correct, and do not need to be swapped in post. I haven't done any at home tests about the channel swapping, but three correct files in a row never happened before. perhaps they've fixed the channel swap issue with this firmware. can anyone confirm with similar experiences (or deny with more channel swapping experiences) ??
Sounds good, how has it behaved since then? My new faster 4GB CF is in transit, or I'd run some tests myself on this. :P :)
I haven't taped anything since then, and I haven't done any home tests. I haven't done any home tests at 24 bit, because whenever I am home, I'm using the MT to do DAT transfers. I've been transferring uncirculated sources for tons of Phish shows, and I must say, it's been rock solid at 16 bit, not a single problem. but, 24-bit, maybe this weekend I'll do some more channel swap tests at home. because, I'd also like to see for myself if it really does 24/96 via S/PDIF. (although I won't be using 24/96 at a show until the price of an 8 gig CF card becomes reasonable. also, hopefully they'll have the 2 gig autosplit feature implemented by then)
anyway, when/if you do some tests for the channel-swap issue, let us all know how it goes.
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+t to JT for all the great advice.
unimportant side note: my microdrive doesn't fit in my card reader slot. grr.
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In another post it stated that the spidf in worked at 24/96 so, I set up and tried it and yes, the spidf will take a 24/96 signal now. Do you think they know it or in working on something else this problem got fixed?
performed one quick test at 24/96 spdif...when I looked at the file on my PC, it indicated that it was 24/48 ??? Atleast it didn't freeze up...
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In another post it stated that the spidf in worked at 24/96 so, I set up and tried it and yes, the spidf will take a 24/96 signal now. Do you think they know it or in working on something else this problem got fixed?
performed one quick test at 24/96 spdif...when I looked at the file on my PC, it indicated that it was 24/48 ??? Atleast it didn't freeze up...
Did the PC play the file fine at 24/48?
Was the file length as to be expected for 24/48?
Or was it double in size, more like 24/96 size?
Maybe the MT cannot do 24/96 yet and the samplerate is disabled?
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found one of the files I recorded before I shipped off my V3 @ 24/96. Opened soundforge 8 and it was recorded at 24/96 :o. I didn't check to see if the channels flipped though. Will check it out when my V3 get back home.
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I recorded a show last night and ran two small test files on the openers just to see if I should set the MT on L or M (or even H I suppose). When I got home, the second test file and the main recording transferred fine (from my CF reader) but the first test file wouldn't transfer because it was "corrupt". Anyone know what would cause this? I'm using 1.2.3 fw and a Rosewill 1GB CF card.
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I recorded my first show last night (Garage A Trois) and everything worked flawlessly. I transferred the files as soon as I got back from the show and everything sounds great. Settings were 24 bit, 44.1khz from 1/4" inputs, on a Hitachi 4GB microdrive. Just thought I would add my experience to the list. I am on 1.2.3 firmware.
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Garage A Trois.. Well hot damn man, great way to start! Seed that bad boy ;)
I'm jealous. I lived in seattle for our years and wish more of the skerik projects came around here.
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Freelunch, I hope to have it posted to bt.etree by tomorrow night. :)
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In another post it stated that the spidf in worked at 24/96 so, I set up and tried it and yes, the spidf will take a 24/96 signal now. Do you think they know it or in working on something else this problem got fixed?
performed one quick test at 24/96 spdif...when I looked at the file on my PC, it indicated that it was 24/48 ??? Atleast it didn't freeze up...
Did the PC play the file fine at 24/48?
Was the file length as to be expected for 24/48?
Or was it double in size, more like 24/96 size?
Maybe the MT cannot do 24/96 yet and the samplerate is disabled?
Good questions that I don't have the answers to...I was just testing that it would not Freeze up at 24/96 spdif. and when it did not lock up, I assumed that all was well (24/96) until I looked at it through the PC...I can do further tests this weekend...
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BTW, from my experience, it doesn't seem that they fixed the channel swapping yet. I recorded YMSB on the 30th and 31st at 24/44.1. No channel swapping for either set on the 30th, both sets had swapped channels on the 31st. V3>MT using Kingston 45x CF card on the 30th, and using a Hitachi 4gb microdrive on the 31st.
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BTW, from my experience, it doesn't seem that they fixed the channel swapping yet. I recorded YMSB on the 30th and 31st at 24/44.1. No channel swapping for either set on the 30th, both sets had swapped channels on the 31st. V3>MT using Kingston 45x CF card on the 30th, and using a Hitachi 4gb microdrive on the 31st.
So microdrive swaps more than CF?
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i used the kingston elite for both nights - no channel swapping at all. ;D
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i used the kingston elite for both nights - no channel swapping at all. ;D
So if we can find more evindence the swapping is related to drive/card speed.
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So microdrive swaps more than CF?
Perhaps, but I somewhat doubt it. I've had lots of problems with channel swapping using my Kingston 45x CF card. I only use the Hitachi 4gb microdrive with longer shows where I need both cards. It seems unlikely they would've fixed the channel swapping that was happening with the CF card and still left it buggered up enough that there was still channel swapping with microdrives.
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i think todd is right regardless of media used... it is just an intermittent problem. that being the case, it may be harder to fix. it is like taking your car into get fixed because it is making a noise and then the mechanic says he can't hear any of noises you are talking about.
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is this a known issue?
recording spdif @24/48, tap the nav key and the recording pauses and you have to hit the nav key to start it again ???
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Is my understanding correct that the channel swapping only happens when recording via SPDIF?
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is this a known issue?
recording spdif @24/48, tap the nav key and the recording pauses and you have to hit the nav key to start it again ???
Isn't that how you pause while recording? I thought it was a feature.
Craig
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Did you have the hold on?
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is this a known issue?
recording spdif @24/48, tap the nav key and the recording pauses and you have to hit the nav key to start it again ???
Isn't that how you pause while recording? I thought it was a feature.
Craig
I guess it is
I just never noticed it before
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Did you have the hold on?
I was doing some testing at home so I didn't have hold on
I will now though :)
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Is it me or is the Beta 1.2.3 version no longer available...what did I miss?
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Is it me or is the Beta 1.2.3 version no longer available...what did I miss?
it's still there:
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&k=firmware&b=1&s=6&p=196cc4c35a380d800a80448f139bcfe7&o=Windows+XP&f=637 (http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&k=firmware&b=1&s=6&p=196cc4c35a380d800a80448f139bcfe7&o=Windows+XP&f=637)
if you go to the Microtrack 24/96 product page, there is a link to "download new firmware for enhanced functions" or something along those lines...
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is this a known issue?
recording spdif @24/48, tap the nav key and the recording pauses and you have to hit the nav key to start it again ???
Isn't that how you pause while recording? I thought it was a feature.
Craig
I could be wrong.. but I think the nav button serves as a "pause" ONLY when in analog input mode, NOT spdif..
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Is it me or is the Beta 1.2.3 version no longer available...what did I miss?
it's still there:
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&k=firmware&b=1&s=6&p=196cc4c35a380d800a80448f139bcfe7&o=Windows+XP&f=637 (http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&k=firmware&b=1&s=6&p=196cc4c35a380d800a80448f139bcfe7&o=Windows+XP&f=637)
if you go to the Microtrack 24/96 product page, there is a link to "download new firmware for enhanced functions" or something along those lines...
I gothcha, I was doing driver search and not Firmware search...+T
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Aren't we about due for 1.2.4?
Craig
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Aren't we about due for 1.2.4?
Maybe their server has reached the 2GB limit.
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Aren't we about due for 1.2.4?
Craig
Actually, how about version 2.0?
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Hi..just bought an MT having gleaned much useful info from these pages for which many thanks. A couple of queries; I'm using Sennheiser MX400 earbuds and I'm getting enormous level out of them listening to MP3s from my collection..is the complaint about hphone vol just the input monitor side of things? how do you stop playback once started in firmware 1.2.3?The manual mentions half-speed playback by depressing the thumbwheel for 2 secs..has anybody made this happen?
Cheers for now
Paul
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Aren't we about due for 1.2.4?
Craig
Actually, how about version 2.0?
Anyone got a hint about a firmware update for the MT?
I got nothing and think M-Audio has stopped.
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I think they gave up on us
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I think they gave up on us
So I asked them once more.
Of course I got a stupid autoreply about my PC's config and the message to contact my distributor when the question could only be answered by M-Audio.
(yes, I am in Europe and they changed their support thingie)
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I'll hold on to my MT until somebody comes out with something better in the same form factor (at which point I won't hesistate to replace it), but I have to say that between my experience with it and with M-Audio's complete lack of customer support over a flaky Firewire 410 I'll never buy another M-Audio product.
Craig
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Hi..just bought an MT having gleaned much useful info from these pages for which many thanks. A couple of queries; I'm using Sennheiser MX400 earbuds and I'm getting enormous level out of them listening to MP3s from my collection..is the complaint about hphone vol just the input monitor side of things? how do you stop playback once started in firmware 1.2.3?The manual mentions half-speed playback by depressing the thumbwheel for 2 secs..has anybody made this happen?
Cheers for now
Paul
I can't make it happen, and I just tried the Nav wheel in different ways. Also, I've only been able to pause, not stop playback. Yes, the headphone output is very strong, both playing back (not an MT strong point by any stretch) and monitoring.
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I think they gave up on us
I've found that the best way to get answers is by using the Incident Reporting thing on the Tech Support page. Submit an incident report about, say, the lack of a 2gb autosplit. They normally respond with some generic "Thanks for the feedback, we're always looking for ways to improve our product." You need to then respond to THAT with more questions at which point you usually get a more detailed response.
Obviously not an ideal way to get answers, and the Incident Reporting form and layout is a bit clunky, but I've been able to confirm that another firmware upgrade is forthcoming. I wrote on Friday to find out when and will post here when I hear something.
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Thanks for the update!
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Hi..just bought an MT having gleaned much useful info from these pages for which many thanks. A couple of queries; I'm using Sennheiser MX400 earbuds and I'm getting enormous level out of them listening to MP3s from my collection..is the complaint about hphone vol just the input monitor side of things? how do you stop playback once started in firmware 1.2.3?The manual mentions half-speed playback by depressing the thumbwheel for 2 secs..has anybody made this happen?
Cheers for now
Paul
I can't make it happen, and I just tried the Nav wheel in different ways. Also, I've only been able to pause, not stop playback. Yes, the headphone output is very strong, both playing back (not an MT strong point by any stretch) and monitoring.
Yeah, that feature (1/2 speed playback) was never implemented. Not sure if it ever will be. I don't have much use for it myself so no biggie for me.
J.T.
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Thanks for the update!
Heard back today: "Sorry, we don't have any information on that"
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did anybody else see this post? i asked what the deal was - hopefully the poster will respond.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=59088.msg781897#msg781897
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did anybody else see this post? i asked what the deal was - hopefully the poster will respond.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=59088.msg781897#msg781897
I'm guessing he meant firmware version 1.1.5.
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Thanks for the update!
Heard back today: "Sorry, we don't have any information on that"
I also got a similar response. They will hear about a new update when we hear about it.
So I think I don't have to ask for support anymore, instead ask for the developers themselves or their pioject leader?
As if that would help.
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[/quote]
I can't make it happen, and I just tried the Nav wheel in different ways. Also, I've only been able to pause, not stop playback. Yes, the headphone output is very strong, both playing back (not an MT strong point by any stretch) and monitoring.
[/quote]
Yes.. strange you can only pause (not stop) playback. Wonder why they never thought of putting in a stop option in this thing.
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i could care less if it has a stop option...how about just making it a viable recording unit...like they said they were going to before it came out.
i had faith in this thing for quite awhile, but i'm slowly giving up on it and m-audio.
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becasue it is so much fun.. you never wna to stop ;D
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becasue it is so much fun.. you never wna to stop ;D
Yeah baby! ;D
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break out the pitchforks and torches!
grr!
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i'd be happy with that.
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I would be ecstatic with the 2gb fix.
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Decided to try the new support thing at M-Audio. Wrote them about the 2GB thing. I got a response already :clapping:"right now we are working on a firmware update that will address this issue." :realhappy: Now lets see if they come through on the statement. Only thing I know is this is the first time I remember them saying anything like this. :yahoo:
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good deal! *fingers crossed*
if this thing turns into a reliable bit dump, i'll be ecstatic.
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Decided to try the new support thing at M-Audio. Wrote them about the 2GB thing. I got a response already :clapping:"right now we are working on a firmware update that will address this issue." :realhappy: Now lets see if they come through on the statement. Only thing I know is this is the first time I remember them saying anything like this. :yahoo:
Wow! Now when will the firmware be released? Before summer?
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Sounds to me like everyone needs to compile their want list again & send it to the new Support. If they responded, it could be a great way to lay it all out in front of them. If they got 25+ emails requesting the same stuff it wouldn't hurt too bad either.
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I had lengthy discussions with support last week. I want to escalate these significant issues to someone beyond the first couple levels. Support doesn't have a clue. Half the time they're saying they never promised >2gb support as a feature, the other half they're saying it is coming. I want to get someone at M-A who knows wtf is going on to more formally set some customer expectations. If they're just stringing people along, it will be worse for them.
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True, True, True
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F*ck the 2GB split, the >4 gb "time remaining" issue, and the no S/PDIF 24/96....
I just want the repair department to send mine back.
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F*ck the 2GB split, the >4 gb "time remaining" issue, and the no S/PDIF 24/96....
I just want the repair department to send mine back.
:'(
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Well, just hearing that the 4gig thing may be fixed is a step closer than we've been. I will LOVE it! Now if 8gig cards would just come down, I'd be a happy man. :headphones:
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Well, just hearing that the 4gig thing may be fixed is a step closer than we've been. I will LOVE it! Now if 8gig cards would just come down, I'd be a happy man. :headphones:
325 isnt bad IMO, they'll only come down more 8)
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It will do 24/96 S/PIDF
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It will do 24/96 S/PIDF
Haven't there been multiple reports of 24//96 via S/PDIF being flaky at best?
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It will do 24/96 S/PIDF
I wouldn't know....mine's been in California since the first week of January.
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It will do 24/96 S/PIDF
Haven't there been multiple reports of 24//96 via S/PDIF being flaky at best?
I've done a few tests at 24/96 via the S/PDIF, and I've found that, at this point, it's just as realiable as 24/48 over S/PDIF. however, I haven't run any tests longer than 10 minutes or so, and I won't run 24/96 at a show until they do something about the 2 GB limit. at 24/96, that's only an hour, which just won't cut it. I can usually deal with the limit if it's every 2 hours (at 24/48).
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I ran 24/96 at home to check my battery time since the V3 pulls more juice the higher you go. I did not have any problems running the spidf @ 24/96. What kind of flakieness has been found? I hope you get back your unit soon as I am sure at some time mine might go down and need to be fixed. Things do get dropped on tour :o
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I ran 24/96 at home to check my battery time since the V3 pulls more juice the higher you go. I did not have any problems running the spidf @ 24/96. What kind of flakieness has been found?
Channel swapping when using SPDIF.
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Sounds to me like everyone needs to compile their want list again & send it to the new Support. If they responded, it could be a great way to lay it all out in front of them. If they got 25+ emails requesting the same stuff it wouldn't hurt too bad either.
This might be old-fashioned, but what about actually putting your wants/needs/gripes on a physical piece of paper? Does that make more of an impact than an email or an online "incident report"? I sent a four-page letter to:
FAX (Executive): 626-633-9032
No response by mail or email, but hopefully it was noticed and passed around! Just a thought...
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microtracksucks.com
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freelunch-is-a-cranky-negative-ned.com
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lol... ned... lol
BTW... I would not trust a fax... At my work we get more spam through fax than email.
I've had pretty good luck with my microtrack... No problems and the only freeze up was when the UA-5 battery died and the digital signal was lost. After a bunch of button mashing it shut down and the file was saved properly.
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No problems and the only freeze up was when the UA-5 battery died and the digital signal was lost. After a bunch of button mashing it shut down and the file was saved properly.
I've seen that problem too. No digi signal and it hangs when trying to save the empty file. I had to do the "many second power off reset"..
The microtrack problems are very real. I guess I should pretend the problems are resolved. Funny, you don't see Edirol R-1 bitch threads. You don't see 722 bitch threads. Etc..
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The microtrack problems are very real. I guess I should pretend the problems are resolved.
Yes, they're real, and I'm not suggesting your pretend otherwise. But aside from the 2GB file size limit, IME they all have easy workarounds (e.g. don't power up or stop the file without a S/PDIF signal present). Even the 2GB file size limit isn't that big a deal - it only takes a few seconds to stop and re-start a new file. Since firmware 1.2.3 it's been bulletproof for me as a bit-bucket.
Anyway, the point I'm finally getting around to is I think everyone knows the MTs bugs. Some know better how to work around the quirks than others, or maybe have units that are less buggy for one reason or another. Constantly harping on the negatives gets awfully tiresome after a while. You think it sucks, I think it's a great, inexpensive way to get into 24-bit recording using an external ADC. I'm simply trying to provide a balancing perspective.
Funny, you don't see Edirol R-1 bitch threads. You don't see 722 bitch threads. Etc..
Oh, no? Dunno about the R1, but there was plenty of bitching about the 722, both before and after it finally hit the market. Go dig up the threads if you don't believe me, they're still around.
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Constantly harping on the negatives gets awfully tiresome after a while.
Define constantly. Curious thing, when the problems are resolved, the bitching stops.
Some know better how to work around the quirks than others
And yet we still have experienced tapers who have owned and used their micrtracks for quite a while get bitten by those bugs. Simply because they aren't familiar with every undocumented quirk and work-around. I know of two local tapers who had that happen very recently. I guess I should have just told them they're being negative and not otherwise mention it. They both seemed pretty PO'd at their MT's.
Oh, no? Dunno about the R1, but there was plenty of bitching about the 722, both before and after it finally hit the market. Go dig up the threads if you don't believe me, they're still around.
The R-1 is probably the best example of a fairly comparable product that was far better tested before being released.
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Define constantly.
No, you're right - you've not constantly harped on the negatives. Apologies, FL - I replied while in a cranky mood based on what I perceive (whether it's true or not) as the increasing negativity on the board as a whole, not just regarding the MT (though there's a fair amount of it specific to the MT, sometimes with good reason, sometimes not).
Curious thing, when the problems are resolved, the bitching stops.
Nothing curious about it, no surprise there.
And yet we still have experienced tapers who have owned and used their micrtracks for quite a while get bitten by those bugs. Simply because they aren't familiar with every undocumented quirk and work-around.
Every high-tech piece of gear I've ever used (especially field gear) has undocumented quirks of some sort (some more serious than others). I think it's incumbent upon users to utilize unofficial resources (like the boatloads of MT threads and FAQ here at TS) and, more importantly, their own testing to identify and address undocumented quirks - especially when it comes to a first-generation device. We can lament all we wish the fact that designers and manufacturers of highly complex devices do not produce perfect first-generation products. But the fact remains: complex first-gen devices have bugs. Every single one. (Though I suspect you'll point out the R-1, and if it did not have bugs - which I doubt - then it's the exception, not the rule). Users - especially tapers - should be aware of that fact, and take steps accordingly (as mentioned above). Those who do not take these steps use the device at their own risk. Sounds like your local buddies got dinged on this one. It's a shame, not entirely surprising, and IME basically avoidable with a little effort on the user's part.
I know of two local tapers who had that happen very recently. I guess I should have just told them they're being negative and not otherwise mention it. They both seemed pretty PO'd at their MT's.
That's the pits. I've been there. I was frustrated by my MT problems before TS identified the workarounds to the two major bugs of which I'm aware, both now listed in the Archive forum's MT FAQ:
[191] When recording at 24 bits, my MT2496 shuts off early or cannot record for as long as i thought it would. What is wrong?
Brian Skalinder has reported various tests in regard to this matter... please refer to his response in the following thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=53572.0
And this one not yet assigned an issue # in the FAQ:
[###] My MT sometimes locks up when I try to start or stop a recording. What's going on?
It appears the MT is sensitive to its start-up and file-stop conditions. If the MT is not receiving a live S/PDIF signal when powering up or stopping a recording, the MT will sometimes freeze, i.e. lock up. The only resolution to the freeze seems to be a re-set (hold down the power button until it powers off, then start over again). Workaround: ensure your MT is receiving a live S/PDIF signal before powering on or stopping a recording.
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is the issue of it sometimes resetting itself to factory defaults in the FAQ, cuz it should be.
i was one of those locals that FL was talking about. now i probably haven't tested the MT as much as some others, but I've read everything on this site religiously. the MT pissed me off at moe because after the bisco set, it reset itself to defaults for no reason. i hadn't read about it anywhere, and it never happened in testing. no big deal, i ran backup and there are tons of other tapes anyway. It also pissed me off before tho when it corrupted a file.
yeah, i understand shit happens, i've forgiven the MT, especially since all went well for the sigur ros show i taped, but i'd still like to see some more firmware updates and have it be more reliable. I'm not ready to sell it yet, but the thought has crossed my mind.
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is the issue of it sometimes resetting itself to factory defaults in the FAQ, cuz it should be.
I don't think it is, no. Drop Andrew Pierce a line and he'll add it, I'm sure. While the FAQ is most useful for repeatable quirks, even knowing about a so far non-repeatable issue helps - in this case, so people can check their settings to ensure they've not re-set.
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I checked my setytings last night, and didnt notice any change
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I don't know how mine was reset exactly. I taped the opener and when I shut down between bands it took a few moments longer than normal for the MT to shut down. Everything seemed normal though. Then when I started it up for the main band and hit record, the unit had reset and recorded the rest of the night using the 1/8" line in default...instead of spdif in. Of course, I didn't notice this until the next day, but....I'm guessing the abnormal shutdown caused the unit to reset. Just something to look at when you turn it on when you use it.
*shrug* I'll notice it next time. :)
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Set up for the first time tonight. Got everything hooked up, card formatted (4GB Ultra II SD), and went to work with S/PDIF in.
I can't seem to change the sample rate. With S/PDIF, I can bounce between 16 and 24 bit, but the sample rate stays on "auto" and will not let me adjust. Oddly enough, when I look at recording time at this point, I only have 3 hours, opposed to 6.5 when locked on 1/8 or 1/4" in. Did I miss a setting in the thread above?
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You can't change the sample rate when running S/PDIF, only when you running analog in. Just use auto, then it will go with what you set your UA-5 at for sample rate. Also, make sure the ADV is "on" on the UA-5.
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You can't change the sample rate when running S/PDIF, only when you running analog in. Just use auto, then it will go with what you set your UA-5 at for sample rate. Also, make sure the ADV is "on" on the UA-5.
That's what I needed to know. +t to ya!
Mike
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You can't change the sample rate when running S/PDIF, only when you running analog in. Just use auto, then it will go with what you set your UA-5 at for sample rate. Also, make sure the ADV is "on" on the UA-5.
That's what I needed to know. +t to ya!
Mike
Backatcha ;D.
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No, you're right - you've not constantly harped on the negatives. Apologies, FL - I replied while in a cranky mood based on what I perceive (whether it's true or not) as the increasing negativity on the board as a whole, not just regarding the MT (though there's a fair amount of it specific to the MT, sometimes with good reason, sometimes not).
Thanks Brian. I really have avoided piling on the MT threads.
The MT has so much potential. And while M-Audio has made some very necessary fixes/improvements, they still have quite a bit of work to do. The device is a bit of a tease right now.
It almost seems like the development team has no MT users or champions of the product. Bug reports rarely drive true "usability" in a product. I actually wonder whether the third party who is rumored to have developed the product on behalf of M-A is soley handling bug fixes in a cumbersome off-shore outsource model.
Getting Rockbox running on the MT could change *everything* and is probably the best hope of making the MT really really good. Just take it out of M-Audio's hands and let real developers fix it.
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out of curiousity, what needs to happen to get rockbox on the MT?
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It has been reported that the MT is based on the same CPU as the Iriver:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=60189.msg796259#msg796259
Getting the Rockbox team members to take on a new platform is a big request to make because it would likely require a great deal of volunteer time by some pretty hardcore/talented folks. If it really is similar to platforms already supported, it wouldn't take as much time but it would still probably take a lot of time. Ultimately, most people would not consider the MT as sexy of a device as some of the video players, etc. Specs for the support chips may not be available. So someone might need to write a driver for the A/D chipset from scratch, etc.
I did a search on the rockbox site for microtrack and found only the briefest mention. So there is no momentum at this time.
http://www.rockbox.org/irc/rockbox-20060202.txt
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interesting. well, fingers crossed for anything that gets this thing to be the reliable bit dump we all want it to be.
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is the issue of it sometimes resetting itself to factory defaults in the FAQ, cuz it should be.
FYI, just added the following to the FAQ:
[192] My MT sometimes locks up when I try to start or stop a recording. What's going on?
[193] My MT2496 re-set the recording configuration. What happened?!?
Any other additions, please contact me - Andrew's buried with other priorities for a while.
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nice! +t
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Deja vu - how creepy... ;D
As I mentioned a couple of weeks ago, it is indeed based on the PortalPlayer platform (same as the iPod and certain other popular players with a sorry and convoluted outsource model - case "designed" in US for the label, OS and firmware developed in Hyderabad India, and of course slapped (glued?) together somewhere in China). For all intents and purposes it is really a Chinese player technology implementation.
I'm not holding my breath for any significant improvements in useabililty. Among other things, I've noticed on all the MT's I've used (over about 30 hours) indications that the ARM CPU's approx. 75MHz may be fine for playback, but doesn't quite cut it for recording. Yes, the 24-bit A/D is there, but it struggles just drawing and updating the level meters. Anybody who has used their MT for any extended period of time notices that sometimes the meter marks momentarily disappear as the CPU tries to catch up after presumeably writing the buffers out to CF. During playback the meters are unuseable. I would suggest that the next firmware update just disables them for more reliable playback.
Using TI's OMAP multimedia processors (ultra low power consumption, 200-300MHz) would have worked wonders for the interface and other things, but probably would have been too expensive for the US marketers. I must add that such a device would have been worth $400.
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i've only done short at home test recordings with my mt to compare the v3 adc at 16 and 24 bit. tonight i'm going to record a show for the first time with it and a 6 gb microdrive. i added the dummy 2gb file on it and got the same reading at the "record time available" screen as jason posted, when i powered it up not connected to my v3. everything is working correctly so far, since it thinks i'm going to do 24/96.
I then hit "record time available", and it shows me two times
"Total time on media: 01:58:10"
and then right below it
"Max time per file: 00:57:52"
obviously, it was assuming 96kHz, and I'll get twice that when I send it a 24/48 signal from the V3. I just thought that it was cool that they've added that small feature. probably implemented because they said they fixed the count-down timer issue.
since i'm going to record tonight at 24/48 i then hooked the mt up to the v3 which was set at 24/48 output, and got the same reading as above. shouldn't the max time per file and total time on media change to reflect the 24/48 that the mt is getting from the v3? what readouts are others getting when they hook it up to their v3 at 24/48?
In ther "record settings" menu, regardless of whether you are feeding it an S/PDIF signal or not, the "Rec Time Available" will always assume 96kHz. however, it's when you start recording, the time that it's counting down from is what's important. for 24/48, it should be around 2 hours...
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so the only issues i should be looking out for tonight are possible channel swapping, make sure to have a digi signal going to it during power up/saving of the wav, and to power it down during set break b/c it sometimes will hang if idle for an undetermined period of time. anything i'm missing?
it would be good to run it at home and check it out to get used to the quirks. as some users have issues that others don't.
channel swapping when recording via S/PDIF at 24 bit - hasn't happened to me since the latest firmware was released
I turn mine on all the time without a digi signal going to it, and I don't run into problems. some people say that that's the trick. I certainly don't think it would hurt, so you might as well do it.
also, I always leave mine on, with the external battery pack plugged in, the whole time, throughout the entire setbreak. it's never been an issue for me.
so, truely, your mileage may vary. what I always do is format the card, turn off the unit completely, and then turn it back on again. usually I'll format at home before heading out to the show. it seems to me, the only thing you're missing is practical experience, which can be a good thing to have when using a quirky recorder.
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So I ran the MT for the first time last night, and had a mixed experience. My initial set up was:
2xKM184s + 2AKG480/omni > Berringer mixer > UA-5 tmod+ > coax out > MT (4gb Sandisk Ultra II)
When I attempted to record, everything ran, but the only sound that stored on the WAV files sounded like FM static, or rather, the static on your TV when you turn the cable off. I was running 16/44 with ADV "on". I also have a 5V USB battery sled that I had plugged in to the MT.
Since I was not able to sound check, I had to make a fast adjustment. I have custom 2x 1/4" -> 1/8" from Leegeddy, so ran UA-5 1/4" out, to the 1/8" in on the MT. Everything worked stellar at this point:
- No channel swapping
- No static
- No problems with the NAV wheel
- No issues AT ALL.
- Ran 3 hours without the battery meter even moving
First, anybody have a clue as to the static issue? I didn't have time to mess with it as I didn't want to miss any of the show, so I went 1/8" in, but that's not optimal.
Secondly, the USB in on the MT is incredibly close to the coax. Anyone found a coax that will allow you to plug both the coax AND the mini-USB in? I used a Hosa coax, and even tried unscrewing the barrel of the RCA, but the connection was still not tight.
Lastly, when I loaded the 4gb card, and set the bit rate to 16 (and adjusted the UA-5 to 44.1), set input to coax, the display told me I had a total of 3 hours, with track maxes of 1:28. Yet, when I ran 1/8" in, the recording time displayed 6+ hours of time, with over 3 hours per track. I read that the older firmware versions had issues with the clock and recording time, but I'm running 1.2.3. WTF? Never mind...I'm assuming the machine just thinks 96khz.
Otherwise, this machine is going to be a dream. I'm assuming I was just a lameass and missed something obvious re: the coax. From there, it was all gravy. Now I really want the 744 though! ???
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I've had problems with playback on the MT where I get a short burst of static and the MT locks up but that's about it. The file is fine and if I reboot and start playback on a different file then skip to the problematic file it will play correctly. At the moment this is the only issue I have with my MT other than the noise floor on the internal preamp.
Craig
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I've had problems with playback on the MT where I get a short burst of static and the MT locks up but that's about it. The file is fine and if I reboot and start playback on a different file then skip to the problematic file it will play correctly. At the moment this is the only issue I have with my MT other than the noise floor on the internal preamp.
Craig
Yeh...mine was not a short burst. It was Poltergeist in a little box.
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First, anybody have a clue as to the static issue? I didn't have time to mess with it as I didn't want to miss any of the show, so I went 1/8" in, but that's not optimal.
Secondly, the USB in on the MT is incredibly close to the coax. Anyone found a coax that will allow you to plug both the coax AND the mini-USB in? I used a Hosa coax, and even tried unscrewing the barrel of the RCA, but the connection was still not tight.
just a guess, but if your coax cable wasn't fitting tight, I'm guessing you got static when recording via S/PDIF because of a loose connection. it's true that the mini-USB and coax connectors are spaced very closely. What I did was use a swiss army knife to shave off some excess plastic on the mini-USB cable. this took just a few minutes for me to do, and the USB and coax both fit nice and snug without touching each other. as far as what kind of RCA connector to have on your coax cable, it's been covered many many times already. I use a switchcraft right-angle RCA that works perfectly.
I was running 16/44 with ADV "on".
I'm not too familiar with the UA-5, but I thought that with the ADV switch "on" sets it to output 24 bit, and ADV "off" sets it to 16 bit. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) however, even if you told the MicroTrack to record at 16 bit and were sending it a 24 bit signal, it would just truncate the signal and the recording would still be listenable, not constant static. my guess is still a loose coax connection...
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I was running 16/44 with ADV "on".
I'm not too familiar with the UA-5, but I thought that with the ADV switch "on" sets it to output 24 bit, and ADV "off" sets it to 16 bit. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) however, even if you told the MicroTrack to record at 16 bit and were sending it a 24 bit signal, it would just truncate the signal and the recording would still be listenable, not constant static. my guess is still a loose coax connection...
Yeah ADV "on" is 24, off is 16. I should of told you that earlier :P. No clue what the static problem is.
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sorry for the hijack, but does anyone know what kind of usb cable the microtracker uses? to clarify, i mean the end that connects to the microtrack. it isnt a mini-usb connector, more like an interface a camera would use. i think the jb3 uses the same connector (?).
anyone have a technical term for the connector, or a lead on where i can score one? thanks
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it is a mini-usb interface.. just like you mentioned, it is just like the end that you'd hook up to a digi camera...
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It's standard 5 pin mini-B usb connector. There're standard type A, B, mini-A, mini-B, and some digicam and mobile phone use proprietary connector.
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thanks. yes, it appears to be a mini-b connector
and to get back on topic (sort-of), I am still using firmware version 1.2.0 with zero problems. havent felt like i needed to upgrade to 1.2.3 yet...if it aint broke.... ;)
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in wavelab, at the very bottom right hand corner is an information line. it should say Stereo 24 bit and then it should say 48 000 Hz, if it doesnt, just right click on the 88 200, and a dialog box will pop up allowing you to change it to 48 0000. it should play fine there-after, unless of course you really recorded at a higher sample rate (like 96kHz), but you will then need to save the file at the propert sample rate. to do that: file > save as > click the attributes rectagle which is under the file type and should say WAV (PCM)/Stereo/88200 Hz (or the files current sample rate)/24bit > change sample rate dropdown > OK.
good luck
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Yeh...mine was not a short burst. It was Poltergeist in a little box.
Did you record a bit from the coax out and then listen back to hear this static? Or did you simply hear static while monitoring the headphone out during recording? The MT does not support monitoring of a digi-coax feed, only monitoring of analog in feeds. So if it was the latter, the coax input was probably working fine. Just thought it was worth double-checking, since I'm not clear on where you heard this static.
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So I ran the MT for the first time last night, and had a mixed experience. My initial set up was:
2xKM184s + 2AKG480/omni > Berringer mixer > UA-5 tmod+ > coax out > MT (4gb Sandisk Ultra II)
When I attempted to record, everything ran, but the only sound that stored on the WAV files sounded like FM static, or rather, the static on your TV when you turn the cable off. I was running 16/44 with ADV "on". I also have a 5V USB battery sled that I had plugged in to the MT.
Since I was not able to sound check, I had to make a fast adjustment. I have custom 2x 1/4" -> 1/8" from Leegeddy, so ran UA-5 1/4" out, to the 1/8" in on the MT. Everything worked stellar at this point:
- No channel swapping
- No static
- No problems with the NAV wheel
- No issues AT ALL.
- Ran 3 hours without the battery meter even moving
First, anybody have a clue as to the static issue? I didn't have time to mess with it as I didn't want to miss any of the show, so I went 1/8" in, but that's not optimal.
Secondly, the USB in on the MT is incredibly close to the coax. Anyone found a coax that will allow you to plug both the coax AND the mini-USB in? I used a Hosa coax, and even tried unscrewing the barrel of the RCA, but the connection was still not tight.
Lastly, when I loaded the 4gb card, and set the bit rate to 16 (and adjusted the UA-5 to 44.1), set input to coax, the display told me I had a total of 3 hours, with track maxes of 1:28. Yet, when I ran 1/8" in, the recording time displayed 6+ hours of time, with over 3 hours per track. I read that the older firmware versions had issues with the clock and recording time, but I'm running 1.2.3. WTF? Never mind...I'm assuming the machine just thinks 96khz.
Otherwise, this machine is going to be a dream. I'm assuming I was just a lameass and missed something obvious re: the coax. From there, it was all gravy. Now I really want the 744 though! ???
sounds like your microtrack is the same as mine, wont take a digi in, doesnt matter the bit rate or sample rate or whether its out of the back of my ua5 or my dvd player. Its always Poltergiest in a box. Strictly analog in for me with mine not that i mind since i dont stealth with a portable A/D. I use the HDP2 for those applications where I can run my Pre...
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Yeh...mine was not a short burst. It was Poltergeist in a little box.
Did you record a bit from the coax out and then listen back to hear this static? Or did you simply hear static while monitoring the headphone out during recording? The MT does not support monitoring of a digi-coax feed, only monitoring of analog in feeds. So if it was the latter, the coax input was probably working fine. Just thought it was worth double-checking, since I'm not clear on where you heard this static.
Crap...it could have been that, Todd. honestly? I don't remember whether it was noise via me monitoring it, or whether I tested it back. Shit...I must be getting old if I can't remember. So good advice. I'll be running again tonight and tomorrow so I'll test again.
mike
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I was running 16/44 with ADV "on".
I'm not too familiar with the UA-5, but I thought that with the ADV switch "on" sets it to output 24 bit, and ADV "off" sets it to 16 bit. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) however, even if you told the MicroTrack to record at 16 bit and were sending it a 24 bit signal, it would just truncate the signal and the recording would still be listenable, not constant static. my guess is still a loose coax connection...
Yeah ADV "on" is 24, off is 16. I should of told you that earlier :P. No clue what the static problem is.
Shit I thought ADV was for 96kHz not for 24 bit. That's another thing I screwed up last night.
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I was running 16/44 with ADV "on".
I'm not too familiar with the UA-5, but I thought that with the ADV switch "on" sets it to output 24 bit, and ADV "off" sets it to 16 bit. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) however, even if you told the MicroTrack to record at 16 bit and were sending it a 24 bit signal, it would just truncate the signal and the recording would still be listenable, not constant static. my guess is still a loose coax connection...
Yeah ADV "on" is 24, off is 16. I should of told you that earlier :P. No clue what the static problem is.
Shit I thought ADV was for 96kHz not for 24 bit. That's another thing I screwed up last night.
16/96 8)
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Hey everybody!
New Firmware out Today 03 March! Version 1.3.3 : 2 gig fixed (but not seamless recording) Mono recording enabled (but with stereo monitoring) and a few fixes..
Cheers
Paul
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Tonight I recorded a concert using 1.2.3 . (I return back to 1.2.3. after having problems with 1.3.3). I was using my V3 set at 48kHz sending the signal to my MT via the coax cable. My MT was set at 24bit. The first half was fine but the second half of the concert sounded strange. It sounded faster and the pitch was much higher (like you were fast forwarding while playback). When I open the wav file in sound forge 8 I found that the file was not 48 kHz but 88.2 kHz! (V3 was not even set at 88.2). Has anyone experience this problem? I tried to resample it to 48 kHz but it still sounds strange because the total time of the second half is compacted so everything sounds faster even if I change the sample rate. Can someone tell me how to get back to the original speed of the recording after re-sampling back to 48 kHz? How do I know if the recording is the correct speed if I am not perfect pitch?
(I do not know why the recording sample rate and speed of the music changed).
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This happened to me once.
I think I had formatted the card at 16 bit, but I'm not positive.
I could never figure out how to slow it down.
It made a great recording for the Chipmunks. ::)
Run a backup.
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Can someone tell me how to get back to the original speed of the recording after re-sampling back to 48 kHz?
Try splitting the file at the precise point where the sample rate seems to change.
Save the first half of the file as 24/48. This should sound perfectly normal since you're not changing anything for this part of the file.
Save the 2nd half to a separate file, also at 24/48. It may or may not still sound too fast. If it does sound too fast, try changing the file's sample rate to 88.2. Note: you're not actually resampling, but simply changing the WAV header's sample rate setting. (In Audition/CEP, it's called Adjust Sample Rate instead of Convert Sample Type - the former does what I'm suggesting, the latter actually resamples. Different software will do this differently, but most should support this capability.) If setting the 2nd half file to 24/88.2 works, then you'll want to actually resample back down to 24/48.