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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: ts on December 26, 2005, 05:27:49 PM
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These meters seem very sensitve. Either line or mic in. I thought maybe it was my mic cables or interconnects but I tried a few different pairs. Like walk across the floor and they bounce(I'm exaggerating a little). I almost hate to clamp to a rail. Maybe this is normal? Or maybe I have something set wrong in the menu?
After checking this thread http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=55768.0, maybe that will solve the problem?
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The meters on the 722 suck. They are biased toward the lower signal and not where we need them. I've learned to use the meters for course setting and then monitor 3db light on the left for dialing it in.
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Yeah and it's certainly fun (I've had my 722 for just a few weeks) to try and learn about these meters and not clip a bit here or there. I run 184 -> 722 and during a loud show got a couple pops here and there (just about 5 over a 2 hour show) and wasn't too pleased with that. I run my tapes hotter than balls generally. I'm getting the hang of it for the most part. Mic in is the way to go. If the V2/V3 meters are more accurate, I might want to put one of these in the loop.
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Is there a reason the meters are geared towards the lower dB's, and this hasn't been addressed in a firmware update?
film work . I think it was designed primarily for documentary and ENG folks, not higher db live music recording..
Looking in the "suggestions" forum on the sd722 site, I havent seen metering mentioned that much(actually I did see it from Scott Brown)..mainly people are wanting faster 1394 speeds, an onboard delete function,mirroring to an ext. drive.. etc..
From one of the mods:
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I understand your point. This is my way of thinking also, however, we have heard over and over and over again from users that they want the red to start well before overload so that they can know that they are "getting close." Of course the amount of headroom that a recordist chooses is a matter of the program material and personal choice. We chose -12 to start the red, as this is getting fairly close to overload - but again - it really depends on the program material.
As to the question of "is this changeable?", the colors and the markings on the front panel are not changeable. The meter scale is software controlled, and we can do different meter scales in the future. I will put it on the wish list.
So the metering will be addressed at some point..
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honestly, after some practice it is not hard to run one of these...just takes getting used to the meters....My mode is to try and get the -3 light on the left to pop with a regular frequency, without really hitting the 0 db lights on the meters....this usually gives me enough headroom to handle a spike in sound. Acoustic music though is a whole different story and I am still working on that
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Im still working on that one too. Im having great results occasionally hitting -12 with classical recording..
any higher than that Ive found isnt a good idea for the stuff ive been doing in the cathedral (orchestra.choir,chamber quartet)
one time i did run peaking at -3 , and will never do it again. The Dynamics ate me alive.
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honestly, after some practice it is not hard to run one of these...just takes getting used to the meters....My mode is to try and get the -3 light on the left to pop with a regular frequency, without really hitting the 0 db lights on the meters....this usually gives me enough headroom to handle a spike in sound. Acoustic music though is a whole different story and I am still working on that
yep... mine is the "first" red light on the meter... it's really not much worse than running the mini-me... just pretend that the extra lights don't exist ;D
totally guessed that Teddy's "film work" answer was the design point before I read his reply... and who am I to argue... I'm just amazed that they think they can change it at this point.
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So if I'm running V3>722 and using the analog outs on the V3, would running a D7 from the spidf out on the V3 help with setting levels on the 722? I did that when running a JB3 from opti out, ran the D7 for backup, but also relied on the D7 metering for getting the levels right on both units. But I've been told by other V3>722 users that the lights on the V3 are barely lit and the 722 lights are halfway up. So maybe that won't work here?
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Yeah and it's certainly fun (I've had my 722 for just a few weeks) to try and learn about these meters and not clip a bit here or there. I run 184 -> 722 and during a loud show got a couple pops here and there (just about 5 over a 2 hour show) and wasn't too pleased with that. I run my tapes hotter than balls generally. I'm getting the hang of it for the most part. Mic in is the way to go. If the V2/V3 meters are more accurate, I might want to put one of these in the loop.
I did the same thing as you with the first show I taped with the 722. But I had more than 5 pops on my show, I clipped all over the place. I had the peaks set to -2 and thought I was ok with that as headroom. The next show I set the peaks at 0 so that I'd have a better idea of exactly where I was in the levels. That one turned out a lot better :)
--hoyt
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Is there a reason the meters are geared towards the lower dB's, and this hasn't been addressed in a firmware update?
film work . I think it was designed primarily for documentary and ENG folks, not higher db live music recording..
I'd have to agree. I've recorded several interviews (and some dialogue for video) and the meters were fantastic. They were also good for me with a couple of piano recitals. However, for these kinds of applications, you want 12+ db of headroom in case of peaks.
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Well, my two cents.
In any recording I aim for low enough volume to 110% sure of never going into clipping. Digital clipping sounds awful. On the low end, I want to stay off the noise floor. And since the 722 has a decent S/N, it seems quite OK to aim between -20dB to a maximum of -10dB for the peaks. Exactly where the meters are the most detailed.
Once the recording is done, I transfer it to my PC and do a "normalise". This will set the absolute peaks to exactly 0 dBFS by increasing gain. Generally I will do a bit of compressing as well, but that depends on the source and the sound I aim for. When aiming for that contemporary CD sound, it would include going into a limiter set at -0.3 dBFS.
Gunnar
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What would solve the meter problem for me is a margin indicator field on the LCD display. There is room for an additional field under the clock counter. This solution would also solve the decifiency of having no persistant hold indicator. For me the main thing is to not have to watch levels to see if I'm hitting the limit. I want to look at the display and know if I went over while I was at the bar or in the bathroom.
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What would solve the meter problem for me is a margin indicator field on the LCD display. There is room for an additional field under the clock counter. This solution would also solve the decifiency of having no persistant hold indicator. For me the main thing is to not have to watch levels to see if I'm hitting the limit. I want to look at the display and know if I went over while I was at the bar or in the bathroom.
I heartily 2nd that suggestion!
Steve
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Yup - I suggested a Margin feature on the SoundDevSupport forum early on, but it looks like they've "lost" all the early posts... including a LOT of good suggestions that I hope they won't forget about now.
A margin feature would rule. Along with a way to see level and balance without making an adjustment, it's on the top of my wish list.
- Jason
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But I've been told by other V3>722 users that the lights on the V3 are barely lit and the 722 lights are halfway up. So maybe that won't work here?
Depends on how which device is providing the gain. If you need a total of 30 Db, 15 could come from the V3 and 15 from the 722... That would result in the v3 meters never peaking.
I'd love the last LEds on the 722 to go 4, 3, 2, 1. But am very comfortable with the meter and have no trouble hitting what I want. I like them Much better than the v3.
As I mentioned in the team thread, I'd really like a histogram of recent peak levels which could be easily reset. I'd much rather see that on my display than the elapsed rec time.
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Well, my two cents.
In any recording I aim for low enough volume to 110% sure of never going into clipping. Digital clipping sounds awful. On the low end, I want to stay off the noise floor. And since the 722 has a decent S/N, it seems quite OK to aim between -20dB to a maximum of -10dB for the peaks. Exactly where the meters are the most detailed.
Once the recording is done, I transfer it to my PC and do a "normalise". This will set the absolute peaks to exactly 0 dBFS by increasing gain. Generally I will do a bit of compressing as well, but that depends on the source and the sound I aim for. When aiming for that contemporary CD sound, it would include going into a limiter set at -0.3 dBFS.
Gunnar
Yep, you're on the money here! Headroom is good. There are only 2 reasons why people generally run so hot that they risk clipping. Either they don't want to do any 'post' work (the common taper reason) or the pre's aren't stellar. Just run the levels lower and do some post. If the arguement is that post processing degrades the sound...then just do a 'peak normalization' and it won't do anything destructive.....really! This is how the pros do it.
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so does anyone know if a margin reset will ever come intop play? i think that would be a FANTASTIC option for this sweet lil box :) since the meters are kinda scaring me because i havent used the 722 yet
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