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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: cpatch on January 20, 2006, 02:58:37 PM
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Given that neither M-Audio or Edirol can get it right, if you were in charge of designing the perfect stealth recorder, what would it look like? Off the top of my head:
- iPod form factor, build quality, and ease-of-use
- Internal 16 GB flash memory
- SD or CF slot (SD to keep size down)
- Optical in/out
- Line in
- 1/8" powered mic in
- Two 1/4" TRS in (XLR nice but optional)
- True 48V phantom
- 24/96
- Firewire (USB 2 OK though)
- 8 hour battery life with phantom (!)
- Super clean preamp and ADC
- $500 street price (or less, of course)
- Recording monitor
- Programmable compressor/limiter
- Replaceable battery option nice (with internal reserve power so can swap while recording)
What would yours look like?
Craig
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it would be a Sony PCM-M1 in hard drive format. also smaller.
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it would be a Sony PCM-M1 in hard drive format. also smaller.
And cheaper, presumably!
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I like the optical in/out but, having had to deal with coax > optical boxes for a jb3, it seems like coax s/pdif is possibly more useful.
So how about both!
Basically, I'd merge a UA-5 with a jb3 that runs up to 24/96
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I like the optical in/out but, having had to deal with coax > optical boxes for a jb3, it seems like coax s/pdif is possibly more useful.
So how about both!
Basically, I'd merge a UA-5 with a jb3 that runs up to 24/96
Oops...I actually meant to put digital in/out. But sure, why not!
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When this comes out, I will leave my DAT alone...
Stands vertically w/ levels (e.g. small Denon DAT from early 90's).
24 Bit, 48v phantom powering with a sick preamp (PSP-2 or V2 quality), and better A/D than a mod SBM-1, all in ONE box. I guess if it's 24 bit that doesn't matter??
Just 4 to 6 Internal AA's that run the thing for many hours, and it likes the size of of different NiMh batteries.
How about a V3, but 1/4 the size, with a hard drive, and a CF slot. Firewire in/out with coax in/out as well.
Maybe if that damn Sonosax unit comes out, it will fit the bill. One can hope...
just my 2 cents
Still a 16 bit guy for now...
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the JB3 but:
-96/24 feature
-better level meters
-more power-friendly (up to 12 hours of recording per battery *HAHA*)
-pre-amp
-phantom
-external battery included
-smaller/lighter, but the way it looks like a CD player
-playback and ability to convert .wav to FLAC on the spot
-cheap
-default unipoint XY stereo (AT822?!) built-in mic
heck, turned up to get something completely different of the JB3 ::)
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Given that neither M-Audio or Edirol can get it right, if you were in charge of designing the perfect stealth recorder, what would it look like? Off the top of my head:
- iPod form factor, build quality, and ease-of-use
- Internal hard drive
- Optical in/out
- Line in
- 1/8" powered mic in
- Two 1/4" TRS in (XLR nice but optional)
- True 48V phantom
- 24/96
- Firewire (USB 2 OK though)
- 8 hour battery life with phantom (!)
- Super clean preamp and ADC
- $500 street price (or less, of course)
- Recording monitor
- Programmable compressor/limiter
- Replaceable battery option nice (with internal reserve power so can swap while recording)
What would yours look like?
Harddrives suck battery life.
CF is the right way.
Balanced only through hi-density breakout plug.
Why need phantom? If you're stealthing the crowd will always be above the noise floor. Eats battery life. 4+ hours without phantom is nice if the battery can be changed.
Digital I/O is nice but not needed for me if the ADC is at MT level or better.
1/8" mic powering at selectable 5 to 9V would be nice. Also selection of resistor over which the power is fed would be nice. (20K-1K?)
The MT has a limiter in the ADC but M-Audio did not implement it in the firmware. Bother them about it!
Replacable Li-Ion battery pack would be nice. Slim one for stealth, thick one for less stealth but longer life. (8h?)
M1/D100 formfactor or more like the MT.
No 2GB bug.
Better ADC is hard I guess. 110 dB SNR, 100 dB THD+N would be very very nice. (make it really worth to do 24 bits)
Small RMT-D7-like remote.
BTW: All this for less than $500 is a steal so don't believe it.
The bare unit for $500 would be OK after a while but additional for balanced breakout cable, thick battery, remote, etc.
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it would be a Sony PCM-M1 in hard drive format. also smaller.
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I want the ability to swap the hard drives in/out if needed. i.e. ease of going from 20GB to 80GB easily (aware of power sacrifice).
Also, please no kind of D>D resampling on the digi input, please.
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Harddrives suck battery life.
CF is the right way...
The point here is what would your ideal device look like? Notice that I specified 8 hours of battery life with phantom power. Feasible? Maybe not, but that's what my ideal would be. Are you saying that you'd rather have CF if you could get 8 hours of battery life with a hard drive? Dream a little here!
Craig
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Are you saying that you'd rather have CF if you could get 8 hours of battery life with a hard drive? Dream a little here!
Absolutely. Solid-state media is more stable (no moving parts) and the CF form factor is significantly smaller than all but microdrives.
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Are you saying that you'd rather have CF if you could get 8 hours of battery life with a hard drive? Dream a little here!
Absolutely. Solid-state media is more stable (no moving parts) and the CF form factor is significantly smaller than all but microdrives.
Good point, although SD is significantly smaller than CF. I've updated my original post.
Craig
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it would be the size of an archos gmini 220 that recorded on CF media, took a spdif, optical, rca, stereo 1/4" or 1/8" in and could record at a bit depth of 24 bits up to 48 KHZ...., it would also supply a full 48V phantom power if necessary and have a battery that would last 8 hours fully loaded....
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Harddrives suck battery life.
CF is the right way...
The point here is what would your ideal device look like? Notice that I specified 8 hours of battery life with phantom power. Feasible? Maybe not, but that's what my ideal would be. Are you saying that you'd rather have CF if you could get 8 hours of battery life with a hard drive? Dream a little here!
I am more on the realistic side. CF or maybe SD allows more recording time than a harddisk. Looks don't matter as long as it is small and not too bad. Ergonomics are more important than looks. Should be able to handle the device in the dark. The MT's buttons are OK. Changing a CF card can be more of a hassle in low light conditions.
Internal flash would drive the price up and make the recording unsalvable if the recorder goes bad. A card can be removed and maybe salvaged.
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Don't forget recorder with a small remote with a screen so you can monitor/check levels. Also level controls on the remote will be good, too.
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Don't forget recorder with a small remote with a screen so you can monitor/check levels. Also level controls on the remote will be good, too.
If you really have to change levels during a show you are too late.
Also this level changing is a risk.
Just get a good SNR and set the levels nicely (you do get some expereince after a few tries, right?).
With a soft limiter you can slightly compensate for high levels.
I never change levels.
I even set the levels on a new deck by comparing them to my old Sony DATs.
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I had a dream last night that Neumann came out with a box the size of a Wallmart battery, used the 100 series capsules and recorded onto either SD cards or CF.
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i hate limiters
i LOVE clip indicators
i REQUIRE L/R level adjust
i REQUIRE details on the meters between -24 and -6 (outside that i dont care)
24/96 is a requirement
field replaceable media and battery also are great features
Limiters (soft...) can save yiou from clipping.
Adjustable clip indicators (-3, -2, -1 or 0 dBFS? 2 samples? more?) sound OK.
You mean separate levels for R and L?
Details are OK at the MT once you''ve seen the guysonic review.
A cool hack would be the replacable media thing for the MT.
I.e.:
Replace the original battery by some thin contact `sled`that takes standard Li-Ion cells of xxxx mAH capacity.
Insert battery pack of the right size.
The MT may get a tad thicker because of this setup.
Where would I find the right contacts thingie for some sort of standard batery pack?
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A nice 2 1/2" OLED screen!
My MD is pretty much my ideal rig. The thing records in PCM for 6 hours on 1 1350mah lithum gum stick and 2500 mah nimh AA.
However, I would change a few things but Id keep the size and shape of it the same. A better mic pre, no scms, no sonic stage (or other crap software). And for someone to start making those 2GB discs that I've heard about.
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A nice 2 1/2" OLED screen!
Way too bright?
Or you want to be able to adjust it down to almost black.
A simple monochrome screen will work fine for me.
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A nice 2 1/2" OLED screen!
Way too bright?
Or you want to be able to adjust it down to almost black.
A simple monochrome screen will work fine for me.
Well...its what my MD has and I dont think its too bright. Its certinaly less bright then most cellphone screens now a days.
(http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/minidisco-store_1878_14517744)
Having it be adjustable would be super nice!!
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Boogie-Check out Tascam HD-P2, it has a lot of the features you want, especially the "hold" switch. Made in Red China, A Windoze CE device. The Firewire mounting/powering on MacOSX is A+.
Limiter switchable, monitoring levels okay, no AES-EBU i/o, only s/p-dif and RCA analog (eew!).
Complaint: Alkaline operation is required, because Ni-MH cells don't put out enough voltage to last over 3 hours on a charge with headphone amp and P48. External pack will solve this problem.
Karl Keefer
Portland Oregon
cjl5 (at) Qwest (dot) net
limiters also have this "nice" feature of changing how the recording in a not so special way....listen close and you will hear the "squash" or "warble" that they can cause when they are activated
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in short, its my responsibility to keep the levels in range...its the devices responsibility to make the recording as un-tainted as possible
some people like limiters, i dont...i'm fine if they are there and i can turn them off
yes seperate controls for left and right channels...super nice feature in an "unbalanced" situation...lets you get full range out of each channel
as far as the clip indicator being adjustable that is a wet dream....having a visual light for each channel at some preset level is fine....0dB, -2dB, whatever...anything in that -6dB to 0dB range is fine when you are running 24bit sources
something i forgot previously.....a HARDWARE/PHYSICAL HOLD switch (alot of devices forget this or make it real hard to use)
boogie
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Boogie-Check out Tascam HD-P2....
No way I'm crotching that thing. ;-) This is about stealth recording yo! Not hometown bar stealth, we're talking about full on security ass raping at an arena stealth.
My perfect Stealth box...
-MT or smaller form factor
-24/96
-CF or SD, whichever can get to 16gb first. Most likely CF.
-No file size limit.
-Solid, more like the M1. I like the MT, but it feels too plastic, maybe a better grade matl.
-True 48v Phantom
-a decent LED level indicator at the top of the unit, so you could view with a quick glance into your pocket.
-record, hold and possibly level adjustment also at the top.
-I like the idea of a remote being able to do all these functions as well. Run that up your shirt and down your sleeve and palm it the entire show. You could even strap it to your wrist so it looks like you're checking your watch. (I always imagined of doing this with the D100/M1 remote.)
- solid A/D
- solid micpre
- mic/line in (dont need optical/coax in, because we already have a kickass A/D, so no need to run anything in front of it. Plus this is stealth so if we don't need the extra port, then why take up real estate.)
- also no need for line out or digital out for the same reason as stated above.
- I guess it can be done, but theres no way I'd be caught monitoring thru any headphone jack during a stealth show. Too much of a risk in drawing attention to yourself. I can almost do without the headphone jack altogether then, and give up listening to it after the show until I get it home. If it'd save me any space on the actual recorder itself. If its a wash, then put it in.
-2 or 4 AA's for power.
-dvn