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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: smat on January 31, 2006, 05:49:58 PM
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I'm thinkin about kickin down on a JB3, but I wanted to make sure there wasnt something else just as cool in that price range. I'd love to go solid state, but just not affordable enough yet. Anything else I might wanna consider for around 200 bucks that's as cool as a JB3?
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Get the JB3. Solid recorder. Great for festies.
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You might like to check out iRiver H1xx's w/ rockbox f/w. Its in the same price range, but no longer in production, so ebay's your friend if you want one (is it the same case with jb3s?).
Quick pros and cons off the top of my head...I'm sure there are more:
Pros:
Smaller than jb3
Longer battery life (~9hrs w/ stock battery; relatively easy mod using the easily available ipod batts takes it up to ~15hrs)
Handy wired remote w/ backlight, 'bout the size of a lighter.
Customisable peak meters (set the range you want).
Customisable Pre-recording (eg set to 30 seconds, wait until the band comes out, press record, saves the previous 30 secs audio)
Rockbox is still a work in progress
Cons:
Doesn't yet do optical recording, but should soon enough.
No longer in production.
Rockbox is still a work in progress
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You might like to check out iRiver H1xx's w/ rockbox f/w. Its in the same price range, but no longer in production, so ebay's your friend if you want one (is it the same case with jb3s?).
Quick pros and cons off the top of my head...I'm sure there are more:
Pros:
Smaller than jb3
Longer battery life (~9hrs w/ stock battery; relatively easy mod using the easily available ipod batts takes it up to ~15hrs)
Handy wired remote w/ backlight, 'bout the size of a lighter.
Customisable peak meters (set the range you want).
Customisable Pre-recording (eg set to 30 seconds, wait until the band comes out, press record, saves the previous 30 secs audio)
Rockbox is still a work in progress
Cons:
Doesn't yet do optical recording, but should soon enough.
No longer in production.
Rockbox is still a work in progress
I've got a question for you folks, those using analog in on NJB3 or H120: What is the quality of the ADC, really? I see a lot of people using great mics (Neumann, etc) and preamps only to go line in on these things. I really suspect the quality compared to something like AD20, UA5, V3, etc. I know the NJB3 has small amounts of analog noise when the disk runs. But I also suspect the ADC itself isn't that great. It is consumer gear, battery operated devices, after all...
Right now I'm using MD analog in (line in, after my self-made preamp), but for stealth only. For other times I'm using either the Presonus Firepod or Edirol UA5. I guess the R1 would be OK on line in too, though I've never tried it.
Richard
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poorlyconditioned: I'm not sure how to quantify it for you, but to my ears, running at853 > ps2 > ad20 > h120 sounds noticeably cleaner than at853 > sp batt box > h120. ...and I'm no audiophile.
btw, you may already know this, but the jb3 & h120 use the same adc chip, so the results should be similar (though I'm sure there are other impacts on quality)
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I dont think the JB3 A/D sounds terrible at all...but I think you have to leave it set at 0db (default) and drive the meters from your pre/mix - i.e. not add gain on the JB3...
I only go analog in with the Nak MX-100 mixer for stealth...I can get the knobs on the Nak 3/4 of the way up most of the time...
Certainly sounds as good as any of the port-o-dats...
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Cons:
Doesn't yet do optical recording, but should soon enough.
No longer in production.
Rockbox is still a work in progress
no 48khz via line in. still a huge step over MD and smaller than a jb3. i'm not selling my M1 anytime soon though
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I only go analog in with the Nak MX-100 mixer for stealth
:o You stealth with a MX-100? That thing is a brick!
+t for being a trooper.
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noise you hear on the jb3 is from the preamp i believe. if you leave it at 0 gain it should be good. i also believe the jb3 adc is the same as the iriver and they are on par with the d100 and ad20. putting either of them or the ad20 in the same category as a mod sbm1 or v3 however is just silly
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i river puts jb3 to shame as a simple analog in device and is very close to m1/d100 analog in...
here is iriver flac line in:
http://s61.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2D5WTW26DL29Z0526SHPBZD5SC
here is m1 flac line in (recorded same way dpas in front of stereo)
http://s52.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1HJXRF1RQZ9WI3HGUJC5U8VIM4
not much of a difference.
iriver spectrum:
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5871/iriver2ru.jpg)
dat spectrum:
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5352/dat3zq.jpg)
i didnt think this thing would sound this decent either, i bought it mainly as a poortable flac player.
if it sounded good recording, that would have been a bonus, but it does sound good.
maybe not a real test as this was only recording the stereo, however, i did this exact same test last year
with dat and jb3, recroding the stereo and the levels on the jb3 were NOWHERE NEAR dat, i put the jb3
immediatly back on ebay without a thought of running it in the field. iriver i feel different about and will try it thursday.
these 2 files were normalized for an easier listen, but even the raw files of the dat&iriver
came out to the same db range, same spectrum, and same quality.
i'm not selling my m1 anytime soon either, but for a simple analog in stealth device, for people who
don't carry around an external adc. this little box is a good alternative hd than jb3.
not to mention all the rockbox things, and powering 4061 via the line input.
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i also believe the jb3 adc is the same as the iriver and they are on par with the d100 and ad20.
On par with the Ad20? Really? I thought AD20 was way better ADC than JB3 ???
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i river puts jb3 to shame as a simple analog in device and is very close to m1/d100 analog in...
here is iriver flac line in:
http://s61.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2D5WTW26DL29Z0526SHPBZD5SC
here is m1 flac line in (recorded same way dpas in front of stereo)
http://s52.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1HJXRF1RQZ9WI3HGUJC5U8VIM4
not much of a difference.
i didnt think this thing would sound this decent either, i bought it mainly as a poortable flac player.
if it sounded good recording, that would have been a bonus, but it does sound good.
maybe not a real test as this was only recording the stereo, however, i did this exact same test last year
with dat and jb3, recroding the stereo and the levels on the jb3 were NOWHERE NEAR dat, i put the jb3
immediatly back on ebay without a thought of running it in the field. iriver i feel different about and will try it thursday.
these 2 files were normalized for an easier listen, but even the raw files of the dat&iriver
came out to the same db range, same spectrum, and same quality.
i'm not selling my m1 anytime soon either, but for a simple analog in stealth device, for people who
don't carry around an external adc. this little box is a good alternative hd than jb3.
not to mention all the rockbox things, and powering 4061 via the line input.
Im not sure I undestand any of that - what exactly are you comapring, with what, and what did those graphs represent...??? You mention comparing levels - what does that prove?
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IF you're going to go analog-in anyway, and IF you already have a portable USB hard drive (or iPod or most other MP3 players), and IF you're not going to spend more than $200, the Gemini iKey might be worth considering for $110. Mine should be delivered today, and by the weekend I plan to have tested the battery life with NiMH's and put the A/D converter to the test. I'll post a report here if there's any interest.
I imagine having an external HD may give the iKey an advantage noise-wise over the Nomad or iRiver. It's small enough to be stealthable, batteries (AA) are easily replacable in the field, truly tiny USB drives are available, and you probably wouldn't even have to hide an iPod.
The unknowns to me are the battery life, A/D converter, and the coarse level meters (all of which seem to have been an issue with the JB3 as well). If the iKey checks out OK on these, it's going to be my field recorder until someone finally does the Microtrack right and solid state memory gets a little more affordable.
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i had trouble getting the jb3 levels, via analog in, anywhere near what the dat put out when i tried this same thing with dat vs jb3.
the iriver seems to be about the same as dat...
you have to admit, getting a good line level analog signal with no external pre through the jb3 is alot harder than the d100 or m1....
gemini ikey?
sounds interesting...
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I've decided to get a JB3. There are a few being sold on ebay. Seems like the xtra battery is hard to come by. I definately want the xtra battery. Is there another place I should be looking besides ebay?
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i had trouble getting the jb3 levels, via analog in, anywhere near what the dat put out when i tried this same thing with dat vs jb3.
the iriver seems to be about the same as dat...
you have to admit, getting a good line level analog signal with no external pre through the jb3 is alot harder than the d100 or m1....
gemini ikey?
sounds interesting...
I agree, the NJB3 needs a full-strenght line level signal, and you're not going to get that with mics alone unless it is really loud and your mics are really "hot".
Some other devices, like MD, appear to have a good deal of gain on the line in input. I'm not sure how much, maybe +/- 12 or even 20dB. With hot mics (Panasonic WM61, AT853, etc) and moderate volume it is often enough to get to -12dB on the peaks, an ideal recording level. And, you avoid the mic pre, which is great. I don't have personal experience with the iRiver, but my guess is that it has some "line" gain, like the MD. This appears to be built right into the ADC/encoder chip. I just think some companies don't use/enable it.
Richard
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IF you're going to go analog-in anyway, and IF you already have a portable USB hard drive (or iPod or most other MP3 players), and IF you're not going to spend more than $200, the Gemini iKey might be worth considering for $110. Mine should be delivered today, and by the weekend I plan to have tested the battery life with NiMH's and put the A/D converter to the test. I'll post a report here if there's any interest.
Gemini also just announced the iKey Plus at NAMM:
- Front LEDs double as VU meter
- Line/phono/mic inputs
- Headphone jack for monitoring
- $280 retail
No details on their site yet, no ship date.
Craig