Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: cpatch on February 28, 2006, 06:19:54 PM
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I ran across this recently and was wondering if anyone knew anything about it:
(http://www.iguana-studios.de/temp/Nuendo/Clara_front.JPG)
(http://www.iguana-studios.de/temp/Nuendo/Clara_action.JPG)
What you're looking at is two omni mics mounted in a plexiglass form called the "Clara", invented by a German scientist by the name of J. Hinrich Peters.
Craig
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weird. . . seems a little bit like omnis on a dummy head, but different shape and i imagine the plexiglass is much more reflective than the material on a dummy head. I'd like to hear what it sounds like ;D
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loos like DIN or NOS on a dummy head. can't pick out the mics, vintage KM84s? or whatever the equivelent is w/ omni caps
neat pic +T
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Thanks...here's another one:
(http://www.mtsu.edu/~dsmitche/rim456/Materials/clara_mic.jpg)
Craig
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It is very handsome, but knowing about the very well about HRTF acoustics, it will NEVER record like you hear it live at the mic position. Will always sound different in every new situation it is placed. Give lots of problems for those looking for consistency in a stereo mic. Just another anomaly in stereo microphone design that will not record anything close to virtual reality, something that true HRTF baffled omni mics do consistently and effortlessly. However, it will turn peoples heads as it is really differrent looking and makes for great photos.
For sample recordings done with real HRTF baffled mics look to: www.sonicstudos.com/mp3.htm (http://www.sonicstudos.com/mp3.htm)
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It is very handsome, but knowing about the very well about HRTF acoustics, it will NEVER record like you hear it live at the mic position. Will always sound different in every new situation it is placed. Give lots of problems for those looking for consistency in a stereo mic. Just another anomaly in stereo microphone design that will not record anything close to virtual reality, something that true HRTF baffled omni mics do consistently and effortlessly. However, it will turn peoples heads as it is really differrent looking and makes for great photos.
For sample recordings done with real HRTF baffled mics look to: www.sonicstudos.com/mp3.htm (http://www.sonicstudos.com/mp3.htm)
So have you used one of these or are you just bashing it to fluff your own stuff?
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It is very handsome, but knowing about the very well about HRTF acoustics, it will NEVER record like you hear it live at the mic position. Will always sound different in every new situation it is placed. Give lots of problems for those looking for consistency in a stereo mic. Just another anomaly in stereo microphone design that will not record anything close to virtual reality, something that true HRTF baffled omni mics do consistently and effortlessly. However, it will turn peoples heads as it is really differrent looking and makes for great photos.
For sample recordings done with real HRTF baffled mics look to: www.sonicstudos.com/mp3.htm (http://www.sonicstudos.com/mp3.htm)
Thanks for the commercial. It's always nice to read a hypothetical review as well. -T
Craig
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It is not a good business model to bash others ideas while lifting up your own. A good product will speak for itself.
It is very handsome, but knowing about the very well about HRTF acoustics, it will NEVER record like you hear it live at the mic position. Will always sound different in every new situation it is placed. Give lots of problems for those looking for consistency in a stereo mic. Just another anomaly in stereo microphone design that will not record anything close to virtual reality, something that true HRTF baffled omni mics do consistently and effortlessly. However, it will turn peoples heads as it is really differrent looking and makes for great photos.
For sample recordings done with real HRTF baffled mics look to: www.sonicstudos.com/mp3.htm (http://www.sonicstudos.com/mp3.htm)
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I'm not going with hypothetical, but,... this thing reveals alot of mic on the opposite side of where this pic was taken from. It doesn't seem to baffle all that well.
It looks like the B&K omni's do better than the straight body mics, though!
I'm in touch with the guy who took the first two photos, a studio owner in Germany. I'll see if I can get links to sample recordings from him.
Craig
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It is not a good business model to bash others ideas while lifting up your own. A good product will speak for itself. It is very handsome, but knowing about the very well about HRTF acoustics, it will NEVER record like you hear it live at the mic position. Will always sound different in every new situation it is placed. Give lots of problems for those looking for consistency in a stereo mic. Just another anomaly in stereo microphone design that will not record anything close to virtual reality, something that true HRTF baffled omni mics do consistently and effortlessly. However, it will turn peoples heads as it is really differrent looking and makes for great photos.
For sample recordings done with real HRTF baffled mics look to: www.sonicstudos.com/mp3.htm (http://www.sonicstudos.com/mp3.htm)
This is not about bashing products, just acoustic knowledge of HRTF and 19+ years of working out the details on accurate HRTF baffle design. This is NOT 'rocket science.' It is about replicating 'water-based' flesh acoustic response. Something NOBODY seems to get (other than myself) when designing 'HRTF' baffles.
While not trying out these other baffles, I know what will work and what is not going to work by looking at the design from photos, and knowing what materials are being used.
Yes, it's sort of lonely knowing and designing for accurate acoustic microphone for stereo-surround mics, and with lots of critics that have difficulty grasping the reality of baffling omni's. Only your own ears and perception, and trying these (badly) conceived 'baffles' in different situations for consistency.
Only then can most people know for sure what works and what is good looking fluff.
So give my examples a good listen on stereo, surround speakers, and on headphones. The tell me how this compares to everything else out there used for mic baffling. www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm)
There really is no comparison in my experience to everything else being used for this purpose, but of course I am an inventor, acoustic/electronics engineer, designer, taper, and business owner, so what do I know that's not going to be labeled bashing and marketing hype?
Please, don't take my word for anything, just consider what I've said, and try to 'honestly' prove me right or wrong with some real experiences with these different approaches to stereo-surround mic/methods.
I've put hundreds of DSM HRTF baffled recordings for world-wide view up for free, look for these other mic makers to do the same with a multitude of different ambient recording situations. Even a Radio Shack mic can be made to sound awesome under very narrow special circumstances. So a few good sounding recordings means little about how good a mic design or use method is working.
ONLY by using a mic in many, many different real-world ambient situations for small to very large staged amplified and pure acoustic sources will show if there's any real consistency to a given mic and method of using that mic.
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I'm not affil in any way but I'd just like to vouge for Guysonics products. I've been running a few pairs of DSMs HRTF in stealth situations for several years along with the PA-3SX pre. I've been extreamly happy with the build quality and results of my recordings.
He has also been very knowledgable and quick/hqppy to respond to any questions I have had.
T+ for past great experiences.
EDIT: You can find may of my recordings with his EQ on the archvie and through dimeadozen if you would like to check out the recordings in numerous different environments.
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This is not about bashing products, just acoustic knowledge of HRTF and 19+ years of working out the details on accurate HRTF baffle design. This is NOT 'rocket science.' It is about replicating 'water-based' flesh acoustic response. Something NOBODY seems to get (other than myself) when designing 'HRTF' baffles.
Unfortunately for you (and myself, being an engineer), audio is subjective. Best design does not always equal most pleasing sound output.
While not trying out these other baffles, I know what will work and what is not going to work by looking at the design from photos, and knowing what materials are being used.
While I might not have the experience you do in this particular field, in my chosen field, I hope I never sink to that level of complacency. If there's a market for that product, it must be that someone out there likes the results. Obviously mic selection plays a role as well.
So give my examples a good listen on stereo, surround speakers, and on headphones. The tell me how this compares to everything else out there used for mic baffling. www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm)
Thank you for sharing those selections. I listened to a couple of them - some ambient, some from a PA. I'd say the work some of our members have done with Jecklin Discs compares favorably. Of course, it's difficult to compare without any control. As an aside, and this is isn't mean to be mean, your web site needs some work. It was very difficult to navigate and there is way too much information on each page, even your home page!
Please, don't take my word for anything, just consider what I've said, and try to 'honestly' prove me right or wrong with some real experiences with these different approaches to stereo-surround mic/methods.
As I alluded before, there really isn't a right and wrong when it comes to audio. Even less so in high-end recording.
Still, your approach comes off as snooty and as a retailer, I do not think that is your intent. I have not heard any recordings done with the Clara. You don't seem to claim that either, basing your opinion on design and materials. I'd be more apt to respect your opinion if I knew you had actually listened or recorded with it.
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For one thing, I am NOT a retailer, only wholesale of manufactured by Sonic Studios products, nothing else. Sonic Studios products offered are not purchased as-is wholesale and retailed, that is being a retailer which is NOT my business.
Another thing, most seem to MISS the point of my comments.
HRTF is a VIRTUAL REALITY form of recording in its purist form. It either does this consistently, or it does not.
There IS a right way, and a wrong way to do this. The right way works consistently EVERY TIME regardless. If the mic and method is working as it should, it will always record stereo-surround reality that's identical to the live sound in sound qualities including feeling and emotion experienced during the live event. These are aspects in DSM recordings that most tapers find almost impossible to achieve using coventional mics and techniques.
What most of the tapers are doing is EFFECTS recording of live events, NOT even thinking of recreating the virtual reality sensations of actually being there. Maybe this is because they don't care to hear it the way it was in reality, or have given up on this being a possibility altogether. Or maybe they like to experiement with how different they can make the live event sound.
Do it the WRONG way, and you have less than reality and an effects recording, which Jecklin and Clara do in spades, do it with something designed correctly like my LiteGUY HRTF, you will ALWAYS get accurate stereo-surround reality. The sample recordings on my site are just a small sample of what has been done with DSM mic systems.
Some of you may have enjoyed the sounds in LOR series done by sound designer David Farmer. Guess who uses DSM mics to record those immersive ambients and effects sounds used in these films? David Farmer has several DSM mic sets purchased at the start of LOR project and knows how and why he uses them every chance he gets.
It is just that simple.
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For one thing, I am NOT a retailer, only wholesale of manufactured by Sonic Studios products, nothing else. Sonic Studios products offered are not purchased as-is wholesale and retailed, that is being a retailer which is NOT my business.
I don't get it. Aren't you selling them on your webpage???
Anyway, as I've said in earlier posts, I'd be a lot happier if:
1) your webpage cleaned up, (maybe you've done this already, I haven't visited recently)
2) you disclosed the elements and/or technologies used in your mics/ preamps.
I am probably speaking for others too in saying, I am willing to spend money for good gear, but I like to know what is inside and what technical innovation/engineering went into it. I don't just want to buy something because you or someone else says it is good. Endorsements are great, but I also want to see technical details.
Richard
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For one thing, I am NOT a retailer, only wholesale of manufactured by Sonic Studios products, nothing else. Sonic Studios products offered are not purchased as-is wholesale and retailed, that is being a retailer which is NOT my business.
I don't get it. Aren't you selling them on your webpage???
Anyway, as I've said in earlier posts, I'd be a lot happier if:
1) your webpage cleaned up, (maybe you've done this already, I haven't visited recently)
2) you disclosed the elements and/or technologies used in your mics/ preamps.
I am probably speaking for others too in saying, I am willing to spend money for good gear, but I like to know what is inside and what technical innovation/engineering went into it. I don't just want to buy something because you or someone else says it is good. Endorsements are great, but I also want to see technical details.
Richard
There are clear technical specifications on most mic and preamplifier products, but let me know what is missing that should be added to products of interest.
For the most part, most the issues about the site design, or lack of, and detailed product technical disclosure suitable for DIY interests is discussed at length in a previous post found at: http://taperssection.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=dc5cb19c3eae03a2a98a47d2a8b6b290;topic=40095.msg764565#msg764565 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=dc5cb19c3eae03a2a98a47d2a8b6b290;topic=40095.msg764565#msg764565)
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For anyone interested, you may view the full text of the patent (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=4,819,270.WKU.&OS=PN/4,819,270&RS=PN/4,819,270) (but not the figures, unfortunately). Or, search (http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm) for patent # 4,819,270. Oh, BTW, the patent expired (http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/sol/og/2001/week23/patexpi.htm) on 4 Apr 2001.
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Pardon my ignorance, can someone point me to an HRTF educational page? I'm completely unfamiliar with it.
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http://www.answers.com/topic/head-related-transfer-function
Pardon my ignorance, can someone point me to an HRTF educational page? I'm completely unfamiliar with it.
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Perhaps the ONLY saving feature for visitors is the amount of information (content) about recording available to those willing to put up with navigational confusion.
Thankfully, enough people seem to overcome these shortcomings to find content worth the trouble. Email comments about the site is well over 60% like it a lot (mostly for content), the others are put off (like is mentioned here) to dig much further exploring the content and product offerings.
You'll find that a lot of people are not willing to put up with navigational confusion. Your logic is flawed because you're talking about the subset of the population willing to email you, and as you admitted, they're mostly into the content. You're obviously very passionate about your design/techniques - why not put that same level of effort into creating a site that's more universally useful? That's just my $0.02. Take what you will from it.