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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: gravity on April 03, 2006, 12:05:49 PM

Title: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on April 03, 2006, 12:05:49 PM
So, I got a used 3rd generation Ipod on ebay a month or so back specifically to install linux on it and test it's recording capabilities.
The linux install was a breeze. The very basic recording function of the player is nice. For Line-in stereo recording I had to solder 3 wires to the tiny iPod connector (and melted the shit out of one in the process. Luckily I bought a few extras and decided to clip off all the pins I wasn't using before trying again).
I can record 16-bit stereo at up to 96Khz.

I have a decent pair of stealth cardioid mics and a cheap little pre-amp and gave it a shot.

So, I go out to stealth tape my first show with my new little toy and I couldn't be much happier with the results. I went to see Bob Mould (Husker Du, Sugar) play an acoustic show at a little local venue the other night and I think the recording came out pretty damn good.

I posted the whole show on Dimeadozen and have gotten some good feedback.
I also have a sample I converted to MP3 posted to the web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~mweil/HooverDam.mp3 (http://www.mindspring.com/~mweil/HooverDam.mp3)

I think the iPod is a pretty damn good little digital recorder once you open up all the features Apple locks out.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: MoFo2 on April 03, 2006, 12:22:27 PM
it would be cool to see some pictures of this :)
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: rdflash on April 03, 2006, 12:29:24 PM
is there instructions out there for this?
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: willndmb on April 03, 2006, 12:36:01 PM
is there instructions out there for this?
http://ipod.hackaday.com/entry/1234000147025394/
i think there are others too
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on April 03, 2006, 12:39:16 PM
ipodlinux.org has everything you need to know. The only limitation so far is you have to have the 3rd generation ipod.
Really the only trick part is soldering to the dock connector which I have attached a pic.
(http://ipodlinux.org/images/1/1e/Dock_audio_connector.jpg)
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: MoFo2 on April 03, 2006, 01:19:22 PM
So what's the battery time for recording? Sounds pretty stealthy :)
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on April 03, 2006, 01:29:56 PM
I can get about 2-2.5 hours of recording with the stock 560MAH battery. I am going to upgrade to the 850MAH.
I also imagine that the higher the sampling rate, the more juice it will take to spin and write to the hard drive. I recorded my first show at 44.1Khz.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: bconnolly on April 03, 2006, 02:08:33 PM
So what's the battery time for recording? Sounds pretty stealthy :)

Not to mention: what venue is going to turn you away if they find your ipod? The chances that they'll assume it's for recording are astronmically slim.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: tscales on April 03, 2006, 05:01:13 PM
I have been cruious about his for along time but always thought the A/D in the pod was not very good - am I wrong?

Can you record at 24-bit??? (doubtful, but I thought I'd ask)

How about if I were recording to my pod from the analog outs on my UA-5?  (I'd like to hear some thoughts.)

-T
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on April 03, 2006, 05:03:15 PM
If any of you guys have a chance to listen to the sample .mp3 or actually download the show I would be glad to hear any feedback on the quality of the recording.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on April 03, 2006, 05:39:17 PM
24-bit. Nope - the iPod is only a 16-bit machine (but your talking about a 15 gb digital recorder that you can score for well under $100).
I can't really speak to the A/D conversion but the few things I have recorded have sounded nice.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: greenone on April 03, 2006, 05:39:38 PM
So what's the battery time for recording? Sounds pretty stealthy :)

Not to mention: what venue is going to turn you away if they find your ipod? The chances that they'll assume it's for recording are astronmically slim.

On the other hand, if it's got all sorts of wiry dongly things coming out of the back of it, they'll likely assume it's for other activities. :P
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on April 03, 2006, 05:46:28 PM
Quote
On the other hand, if it's got all sorts of wiry dongly things coming out of the back of it, they'll likely assume it's for other activities.
actually, the only thing coming out of the ipod is the dock connector to a stereo mini pin. looks just like the cable you charge it with except for the stereo pin in place of a USB connector. Now if they find my preamp and mics then I've got som 'splainin' to do.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: greenone on April 03, 2006, 06:38:43 PM
Quote
On the other hand, if it's got all sorts of wiry dongly things coming out of the back of it, they'll likely assume it's for other activities.
actually, the only thing coming out of the ipod is the dock connector to a stereo mini pin. looks just like the cable you charge it with except for the stereo pin in place of a USB connector. Now if they find my preamp and mics then I've got som 'splainin' to do.

Ah...I assumed it kinda looked like the illustration above, a little hack-y. What's your final product look like?
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: rsimms3 on April 04, 2006, 11:53:52 AM
Are there other tracks that are more complex, say with other guitars and drums?  The sample you put up sounds good.  What kind of mics/preamp did you use?  What sort of controls do you have over recording on the iPod itself such as gain, channel adjustments, etc.?  I am just curious.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on April 05, 2006, 09:27:26 AM
I understand a port of Rockbox is working on some of the iPods so I imagine that some gain adjustments will be available in the future, but right now I use my preamp to adjust gain. The mics and preamp are inexpensive Church Audio stuff I got on ebay. The pre-amp is his model ST-9000 and the mics are some little cardioid capsules.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: CHURCH-AUDIO on April 05, 2006, 04:33:01 PM
Cool mod you should sell the adaptor on ebay :_) make some $$$ with that. So do you see a display on the ipod for signal level? how do you switch into record mod all the jazz tell us more. Also its nice to know your using my mics and preamp. I hope you like them. The recording sample sounded a bit dull was this converted to mp3 or is that done inside the ipod?

Chris Church



I understand a port of Rockbox is working on some of the iPods so I imagine that some gain adjustments will be available in the future, but right now I use my preamp to adjust gain. The mics and preamp are inexpensive Church Audio stuff I got on ebay. The pre-amp is his model ST-9000 and the mics are some little cardioid capsules.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: Howell on April 06, 2006, 01:29:13 AM
I was actually just about to do this.  What kind of cable do you have soldered to the adapter?  I already run linux on my ipod and last night i was contemplating tearing apart my fire wire dock connector, but since you need it to do the software updates from OSX I didn't want to ruin it.  Did you order dock connectors or just use one from some cheap adapter?
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on April 06, 2006, 09:28:53 AM
Don't try to alter a dock connector that you arleady have. All you need is a 1/8" stereo patch cord and male dock connector end that you can order online at the link below. The guy takes paypal and they are only $2.50 a piece, so order several as it's easy to screw them up. They ship from Europe (Sweden, I think) but I got mine in about a week.

You're only soldering to 3 pins (Line-in left, line-in right, and ground)  but the dock connector has 30 pins, so I would snip off the pins you are not using that are adjacent to the ones you do need to use. I also cut a strip of playing card and slipped it under the pin I was soldering to so that I could isolate just that one.

(http://home.swipnet.se/ridax/black.jpg)
http://home.swipnet.se/ridax/connector.htm (http://home.swipnet.se/ridax/connector.htm)

There's nothing on the iPod that displays signal level, but I'm hoping that it is coming in the future. Audacity has realtime level meters and I'm hoping someone can port that feature to the iPod. The iPod writes directly to .wav, and I converted that track to mp3 in Audacity.

To record, you simply boot your iPod to ipodlinux (you can choose the boot os at startup by holding a key combination). Once it boots, you just scroll down to "Extras" > "Recordings", select line-in, set your sampling rate and click start.

(http://common.weblogsinc.com/common/images/4856521329797276.JPG?0.6242745388448727)
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: Howell on April 06, 2006, 09:38:05 AM
Sweet, just placed an order for some dock connectors.

You said you have already used this to tape a show, how long did the recording run.  The one review of somebody who made a line in on the ipodlinux.org forums that I read said they ran into problems when the recording time got over about an hour?  Did you see any problems with this at all, or did you even have a single file that went that long?

BTW, the battery is easy to replace.  I just did mine a week ago and it takes < 10 minutes.  I got a battery from ipodbatterydepot.com for 16 bucks, it's 850mAh and comes with two little plastic tools to help get the case apart.  You have to be a little rough with it than you would think to get it open but once you get it the case pops right off.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on April 06, 2006, 09:55:39 AM
I did the battery in mine too and it was easy. I only have a 650mah in mine and I get about 2-hours out of it, but the key is to keep the ipod off right up until you want to use it. Booting back and forth from regular mode to linux is a real power sucker, so try not to do it more than once before recording.

I just got a 2nd iPod I scored on ebay for $58, and already have the 850mah battery on it's way. I got mine from a Hong Kong supplier for about $12. The little plastic tools are OK, but I have some small wood working chisels that I find to be a little sturdier for popping the case open.

And now that I have 2, I can just swap them out when the juice starts to run low. You can set the battery meter to display a # that counts down as the battery drains so you can estimate when it's gonna crap out.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: rdflash on May 01, 2006, 03:43:10 AM
Can you do the mod with 4th generation Ipods??

I found this.

http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Ipod-Linux-on-a-4th-Generation-Photo-or-Nano-Ipod
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: sunrisemusic on May 02, 2006, 11:52:56 AM
Sweet! Has anyone done any recording with the video iPod, it already has 16 bit 44.1k included, though you'd need a preamp.  I'm curious, cos I haven't heard any reports about it's audio recording yet.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: rdflash on May 02, 2006, 11:59:00 AM
Sweet! Has anyone done any recording with the video iPod, it already has 16 bit 44.1k included, though you'd need a preamp.  I'm curious, cos I haven't heard any reports about it's audio recording yet.

Video Ipods are 5th generation I believe, which means it cannot be used for this purpose yet.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: TheTweezer on May 03, 2006, 05:43:21 PM
Can you do the mod with 4th generation Ipods??

I found this.

http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Ipod-Linux-on-a-4th-Generation-Photo-or-Nano-Ipod

ipodlinux works with g4/photo, but this ipod doens't support line-in :( only mic-in :(

Tweezer
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: rdflash on May 03, 2006, 07:11:47 PM
Can you do the mod with 4th generation Ipods??

I found this.

http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Ipod-Linux-on-a-4th-Generation-Photo-or-Nano-Ipod

ipodlinux works with g4/photo, but this ipod doens't support line-in :( only mic-in :(

Tweezer

How do you know this?

j/w
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: Howell on May 04, 2006, 11:33:36 AM
Quote
3 - Only recording via microphone works on these models, no line in.

http://ipodlinux.org/Project_Status
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: rdflash on May 04, 2006, 12:47:03 PM
thanks

+ T
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: TheTweezer on May 05, 2006, 01:59:35 AM
it would be interesting if this is just a problem of the latest ilinux release or if this is really a hardware "problem". anyone read some more informations about it?

Tweezer
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: Howell on May 05, 2006, 09:06:22 AM
it would be interesting if this is just a problem of the latest ilinux release or if this is really a hardware "problem". anyone read some more informations about it?

Tweezer

Are you referring to why they can't record on 4th gen and above? It's a difference in hardware between the models.  The capability might be there but nobody has figured it out.  The people from that project are just doing what they can by reverse engineering, they aren't getting any help from apple with hardware specifics.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: jstern36 on May 13, 2006, 10:36:03 AM
I recently Bought an I-Audio M3, And have come up with similiar great results. The Cowan actually records in FLAC format and has an unbelievable battery. I too went with the stealthy approach and bought sound pro mics and pre amp. All together I spent around 350.00 and have producing great recordings since. 
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on May 20, 2006, 12:17:44 PM
Heres a pic of the cable I put together using a male dock connector and a 3/8" stereo patch cord.

(http://66.148.52.248/test/images/ipod1.jpg)
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: rdflash on May 21, 2006, 01:55:28 AM
i was intent on getting an ipod and doing this...then realized I would prolly mess it up and wasnt gonna get one cheap on ebay (after looking for 2 weeks)

so, just bought Iriver 120 to double as recorder/mp3 player. lol

much easier in my book.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: adzy31 on May 24, 2006, 09:25:01 PM
I bought an iRiver H340 a while ago and have been running Rockbox on it ever since I got it - completely fantastic piece of software, I couldn't live without it on there. It adds so many useful features and most importantly the recording feature. Straight to WAV and not too bad battery life whilst recording, with the stock battery - about 4-5 hours maybe. Gives you level meters, you can configure the remote to flash if your input clips, it has AGC if you want it, etc.

The reason I say this is that you could get WAV recording on that 120 :) and if I'm not mistaken, Rockbox works on video iPod and iPod nano. Not sure whether recording works, but you could try it out! http://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtml

another thing I thought was worth mentioning [don't worry I don't work for either Rockbox or this eBay guy, hehe] was, I was thinking of reluctantly ordering some crazily expensive mics from America, but had about a week before my gig and wasn't sure if they'd arrive in time so just ordered some cheap £25 "Stealth Hawk Diablo" mics and preamp from eBay UK to use with my Rockboxed iRiver. Got the recording home and was quite impressed with the quality. If you don't want to spend stupid money yet on some mics but still want a decent non-distorted clear recording of gigs, seriously, try them out... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stealth-Hawk-Diablo-Stereo-Phantom-Supply-Microphone_W0QQitemZ7405444949QQcategoryZ15198QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: gravity on May 26, 2006, 01:48:31 PM
I am waiting for the version of Rockbox for the 3G ipod models. I understand it is in the works right now and should be available soon.
iPod linux recording feature isn't bad, but I have no on-screen levels so I really need to know where to set my preamp so I don't get any clipping. But otherwise have been really happy with the quality of recording I get from the iPod, especially considering I have less that $300 in my entire rig.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: ballerusk on September 01, 2006, 04:02:48 AM
Anyone tried this? -> http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/BEL-TUNETALK
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: joekar on September 01, 2006, 05:26:23 AM
Anyone tried this? -> http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/BEL-TUNETALK
"
They have been "releasing" this thing since around April.....The Belkin site says it will be "available soon".......I have to talk to Chris at SP this week.....I'll ask him about it...
Peace,
jk
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: rdflash on September 01, 2006, 07:26:52 AM
Anyone tried this? -> http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/BEL-TUNETALK
"
They have been "releasing" this thing since around April.....The Belkin site says it will be "available soon".......I have to talk to Chris at SP this week.....I'll ask him about it...
Peace,
jk

so, would this be live audio recording worthy?

like good quality?  44.1khz, not that 8 khz crap.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: ballerusk on September 01, 2006, 07:31:50 AM
It says CD quality if I'm not mistaken, so 16/44 I guess.
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: rdflash on September 01, 2006, 07:38:01 AM
It says CD quality if I'm not mistaken, so 16/44 I guess.

ya, i would assume, but you know what happens when one assumes...

btw, by the time you bought this and an Ipod, the cost would be like 400 bucks.

I will just stick to my 150 dollar irivers, which might not look as cool, but get the job done  :)
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: liverecording on September 01, 2006, 03:41:39 PM
Hi

I know you´re well aware of these two toys ...

Question: Has anyone tried them - preferabely in-field first person accounts ;o)

http://www.ikey-audio.com/ikeyplus.htm

http://www.xtrememac.com/audio/earphones_recorders/micromemo.php

Thanks alot for providing excellent insights in this great forum

yours,
liverecording
Title: Re: Recording to my iPod - great little digi recorder
Post by: joekar on September 01, 2006, 07:40:31 PM
It says CD quality if I'm not mistaken, so 16/44 I guess.

Yep, those are the specs I saw....I guess we will have to wait and see.....and wait....and wait....and wait....and wait.......Do you notice a pattern ?....I really think the RIAA made them put the brakes on regarding its release.....Because if someone uses this evil device to record music it may possibly affect their botton line .......idiots........Do you know that the guy who is the lobbyist for DRM is Jack Valentie....the same guy who said " the VCR is to the movie industry, what Jack the Ripper was to women" while he was the president of the MPAA after he left President Johnson cabinet......The guy is a pure neo-con with alot of pull in Washington........I don't expect to see it all too soon......It might be released after Apple comes out with their NEW 6th Gen iPod in September....Then they will quietly discontinue the 5th Gen which was just really a stop gap measure at best.....to keep people interested in the iPod and NOT their competition while they "perfect" the new kid...(6th Gen).....that way they can limit liability and allow the prodict to be released fro a discontinued model...........I also heard that the ipod battery may not be recording friendly.......early tests with the unit stated 3+ hours record time due to battery limitations...not hard drive space.....and with the device plugged in you cannot use an external battery pack.......Please take this for what you may......I have a 5th gen iPod and will probably grab one just to check it out unless some else gets a chance to test it out first.....

Pease,
jk