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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: Teen Wolf Blitzer on April 30, 2006, 01:28:45 PM
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I currently have crap.....
Pioneer VSX 512 s (AV receiver)
Toshiba SD6915 DVD changer
JBL L-112 speakers (which I'm told are pretty nice for 80's :P)
This is old stuff (with the exception of the dvd player) and I'm a bit embarrassed. I mean don't get me wrong it sounds ok to my ears I just need to upgrade I think. We're talking the old style wire speaker connections. So where do I start?
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Start with good speakers. The transducer is the always the most important. What's the room like and how much $ do you have?
-Noah
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Living room. Approx. 20x60. Standard ceilings. Haven't gotten far enough to consider how much I wanna spend. 8)
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Approx. 20x60.
That's one BIG room!
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Ya it is pretty big. But my family room is too small and the kids are always in there so I have my system in the living room with wireless speakers throughout the house.
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Start with good speakers. The transducer is the always the most important.
-Noah
Agreed. Given that the room is pretty big I would think you would want to go with some large full-range floorstanding speakers.
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It's all a matter of how much dinero you want to blow... Let's assume first that a) you want to improve things but don't want to drop many thousands just yet, and b) a room that size would benefit from a bigger speaker. The typical way to go about it is to start with a good solid-state integrated amp and, most importantly, a good pair of speakers.
As far as big speakers go, you could upgrade today to a big pair of used Klipsch floorstanders for well under $500 and make the earth move. They're not exactly "audiophile"...really they are a "party speaker". But for some reason I think they mate very well with Dead tapes (especially after you've smoked a coupla doobies ;))...they have a tonal balance that is reminiscent to me of the Dead sound. Speakers like the KG 5.5 s are beasts and Klipschs are generally so efficient that they don't need a lot of power behind them.
But if you're looking to refine your sound, Klipsch probably won't cut it. You'll probably need to spend at least $800 (used) for a decent set of floorstanders, and at least $300 (used) for a decent-sounding amp with some power. And you could easily drop 5x that in a heartbeat.
A pair of Vandersteen 2Ce Sigs would sound good in a room that size, for $1K used. At that price point you're getting near Von Schweikert range, either the V2 (<$1400 used). Others swear by brands like DefTech, Soliloquy, PSB Audio, B&W and many others.
Also note that as the speakers get more revealing, the limitations of the gear driving them become more pronounced. So if you get some "good" speakers, you'll probably want to upgrade your amplification at the same time. I think a minimum of qual for Vandersteens or Von Schweikerts or the like would be a 100WPC integrated amp from Rotel used for $3-500. You'll need some power to fill that room properly.
In Portland, I'd recommend a stop at Echo Audio for a used grab bag of high end, with lots of tube gear; Fred's Sound of Music if you want to check out Paradigm, Thiel, Rotel and other mainstream mid-fi stuff; Stereotypes Audio has some nice 'budget' (sub-$1K) audiophile electronics, plus JM Labs and Proac speakers; and Chelsea Audio in Beaverton has B&W out the ying-yang. But eventually you'll save money by doing the Audiogon.com shuffle, once you've zeroed in on some choices.
The biggest auditioning task is to determine what type of sound suits you -- kinda like with taping gear. Speakers in particular come in all kinds of flavors. Some are very precise but somewhat cold (e.g. Thiel, B&W), while some are warmer and fuzzier (e.g. Vandersteen, Paradigm). And when you're on a budget, you'll rarely find one speaker that does everything you want it to. Compromises...
The most interesting thing I've learned is that speakers are unpredictable. At Stereotypes Audio, I auditioned JMLabs and Proac. The JMLabs are bouncy and musical, and they sounded great when we listened to "Two Against Nature" by Steely Dan. They were much less impressive when I tossed in a stealthed Beck tape (thanks RobertD). The Proacs, by contrast, did an awesome job with the audience tape, and sounded downright horrible with the tight-as-your-asshole-but-overproduced studio disk. Or maybe I should say, the Proacs highlighted the recording 'flaws' (heavy compression and processing) that made the cheaper speakers sound better.
Above all, when you go listen, bring a wide variety of source material and be mentally prepared to take over the shop.
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Dont forget Magnolia Hi Fi in Clackamas (off 82nd by the mall) they carry all sorts of stuff... this is where I bought my Sony 3000ES as well as my Deftechs
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This is what I have for a system my room is 20x30 Not 20x60! Like your room but I feel for the money these speakers are very good. I use bryston 4b amps on the main and center and rear speakers but you can get some sort of multi channel amp if you want to save money.
Chris Church
I currently have crap.....
Pioneer VSX 512 s (AV receiver)
Toshiba SD6915 DVD changer
JBL L-112 speakers (which I'm told are pretty nice for 80's :P)
This is old stuff (with the exception of the dvd player) and I'm a bit embarrassed. I mean don't get me wrong it sounds ok to my ears I just need to upgrade I think. We're talking the old style wire speaker connections. So where do I start?
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come up w/a budget.
your large ass room will require large ass gear, and likely more money to do it right.
buy EVERYTHING used!!!! right down to the cables (if you dont make them yourself).
w/the used gear, you can get exactly what you paid for it when you decide to try something else.
be ready to go through A LOT of gear until you find what fits your ears, room and budget the best.
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I wish I had a nice system in my living room, but thank God I do have a couple of pairs of really nice Monitors(B+W 802s and Truth TA-P1s) in my studio/music room, so I do all my listening in there. really see the strengths and weaknesses of my gear now.(and other peoples)
This is what I have for a system my room is 20x30 Not 20x60! Like your room but I feel for the money these speakers are very good. I use bryston 4b amps on the main and center and rear speakers but you can get some sort of multi channel amp if you want to save money.
Chris Church
I currently have crap.....
Pioneer VSX 512 s (AV receiver)
Toshiba SD6915 DVD changer
JBL L-112 speakers (which I'm told are pretty nice for 80's :P)
This is old stuff (with the exception of the dvd player) and I'm a bit embarrassed. I mean don't get me wrong it sounds ok to my ears I just need to upgrade I think. We're talking the old style wire speaker connections. So where do I start?
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B&W are very nice speakers I also like B&K but they are $&$ I got a good deal on the speakers i had only because I did some work with that company. I would have bought something much smaller :) my wife almost killed me when she saw the boxes. She is over it now 2 years later. But she still brings it up every time she hits her foot on the sub or one of the main speakers.
Chris Church
I wish I had a nice system in my living room, but thank God I do have a couple of pairs of really nice Monitors(B+W 802s and Truth TA-P1s) in my studio/music room, so I do all my listening in there. really see the strengths and weaknesses of my gear now.(and other peoples)
This is what I have for a system my room is 20x30 Not 20x60! Like your room but I feel for the money these speakers are very good. I use bryston 4b amps on the main and center and rear speakers but you can get some sort of multi channel amp if you want to save money.
Chris Church
I currently have crap.....
Pioneer VSX 512 s (AV receiver)
Toshiba SD6915 DVD changer
JBL L-112 speakers (which I'm told are pretty nice for 80's :P)
This is old stuff (with the exception of the dvd player) and I'm a bit embarrassed. I mean don't get me wrong it sounds ok to my ears I just need to upgrade I think. We're talking the old style wire speaker connections. So where do I start?
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Yeah, it was between the B+Ws or ADAM S3A for me. B+Ws were a bit cheaper, since I got them used. Had a pair of NS-10Ms, but sold them and bought the truths. http://www.truthaudio.com/ta1p.htm I like that combination because everything translates really well to normal consumer gear..
TaperMark, just shop around man...speakers are a lot harder to shop for than Mics and Pres.
Teddy
B&W are very nice speakers I also like B&K but they are $&$ I got a good deal on the speakers i had only because I did some work with that company. I would have bought something much smaller :) my wife almost killed me when she saw the boxes. She is over it now 2 years later. But she still brings it up every time she hits her foot on the sub or one of the main speakers.
Chris Church
I wish I had a nice system in my living room, but thank God I do have a couple of pairs of really nice Monitors(B+W 802s and Truth TA-P1s) in my studio/music room, so I do all my listening in there. really see the strengths and weaknesses of my gear now.(and other peoples)
This is what I have for a system my room is 20x30 Not 20x60! Like your room but I feel for the money these speakers are very good. I use bryston 4b amps on the main and center and rear speakers but you can get some sort of multi channel amp if you want to save money.
Chris Church
I currently have crap.....
Pioneer VSX 512 s (AV receiver)
Toshiba SD6915 DVD changer
JBL L-112 speakers (which I'm told are pretty nice for 80's :P)
This is old stuff (with the exception of the dvd player) and I'm a bit embarrassed. I mean don't get me wrong it sounds ok to my ears I just need to upgrade I think. We're talking the old style wire speaker connections. So where do I start?
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Great thread...thanks mark. I'm in the same boat you are. Spent all my $$ getting a rig I'm happy with, but still have the low end SONY system.
Been thinking about the Tannoy speakers. I like what they do, but they seem ruthless when it comes to flaws. Since 1/2 of what I listen to is live stuff, I don't know if they're the best fit. Granted...throw on "Friday Night in San Francisco" and it'd be heaven, but I want a balance that will enhance the live-music experience, yet stay true to the studio side. Anyone have thoughts on Tannoy on the whole?
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I Know a lot of pro guys like the Tannoy actives.
I had the chance to hear these last month and was blown away.
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/Pegasus/Pegasus.htm
(a lot of high end speaker companies use kits from this company)I know one VERY high end company that will speak for them.
they are DIY, but sound spectacular!
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Reference is reference.
if a studio release is well done, you'll know it. If your AUD recordings are well done, you'll know that as well. I'm saying that a good reference system will shine no matter what you feed it for material. It will also show you whats wrong.
whats the point of a "monster rig" when you are listening to it through a stereo that is not on the same level?
once you finaly get to that point, then taping becomes MUCH more fun, imo.
You may come to find that once you build a great stereo your recording rig may not sound right to you anymore.
Better to have an honest system and then rebuild the recording gear. After all, how can you be sure you have just what you wanted in that regard if you are not really hearing it?
My tastes in recording gear certainly changed after I got into high end (somewhat high end anyway) playback.
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+T Nick!
~crackpot
Reference is reference.
if a studio release is well done, you'll know it. If your AUD recordings are well done, you'll know that as well. I'm saying that a good reference system will shine no matter what you feed it for material. It will also show you whats wrong.
whats the point of a "monster rig" when you are listening to it through a stereo that is not on the same level?
once you finaly get to that point, then taping becomes MUCH more fun, imo.
You may come to find that once you build a great stereo your recording rig may not sound right to you anymore.
Better to have an honest system and then rebuild the recording gear. After all, how can you be sure you have just what you wanted in that regard if you are not really hearing it?
My tastes in recording gear certainly changed after I got into high end (somewhat high end anyway) playback.
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Thanks Nick.
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Reading this it seems that a lot of you use nice stereo units for playblack, but what about mastering? Teddy has some nice monitors. I have the chance to pickup some Earthworks Sigma 6.2s at a really good price, which would be leagues ahead of the current set of Alesis monitors I currently have.
Who else is using dedicated monitors and what are you using?
Wayne
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Reading this it seems that a lot of you use nice stereo units for playblack, but what about mastering? Teddy has some nice monitors. I have the chance to pickup some Earthworks Sigma 6.2s at a really good price, which would be leagues ahead of the current set of Alesis monitors I currently have.
Who else is using dedicated monitors and what are you using?
Wayne
I run the Tannoy Reveal actives at my PC for mixing and all other audio work. Wish I could get something nicer, but these suit my needs well for now!
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i dont do anything w/my recordings other than track them out.
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i dont do anything w/my recordings other than track them out.
When you run up to 8 channels, you don't have a lot of options, you have master them back into a two track format.
Wayne
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Had lunch with my finance manager (AKA wife), who told me to buy the Sigma 6.2 monitors... Now I have a LOT of work to do in my office/mixing room. I have an entire wall I have to take down, so I can set up my listening/mixing station properly.
Wayne
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thats true.
:)
thats why i like two channel love.
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what's the difference between "speakers" and "monitors" ?
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Nothing, really. It's a common term for speakers on stands. Some monitors are active. They have amps built into them.
Chris
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Nothing, really. It's a common term for speakers on stands. Some monitors are active. They have amps built into them.
That's not exactly true. Speakers in general are designed so they fill a room with sound and that sound is similar from all areas of the room. (this is a general over-simplification, but you get the idea). Monitors, while they can be far-field (what I'll call speakers), they usually are associated with near-field sound, that is, you usually listen to them very close up (within 2-4 feet) and usually you position them so you are in the "sweet spot" and get the full spectrum of audio in both ears. Just like microphones, monitors should be relatively flat across the audio spectrum. This is where most monitors really do fail. Most have some sort of curve to them (which isn't always a bad thing, since so do your ears), but the idea is to have a set of monitors that allows you to listen to the audio without coloring it. This way you can add EQ where required without compensating for the coloration of the audio through the monitors.
As Chris mentioned, there are active and passive monitors, most speakers are passive and require some sort of amp to drive them.
Wayne
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You are correct about that. Some speakers do not work at close 'near field' range. A necessary feature for a DAW.
Chris
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Congrats Mr. Brissette! Lucky you! So I suppose youll keep the Alesis to crosscheck? I use Truth TA-1Ps to check on in addition to my B+W main pair. Ive found that if I can get it sounding alright on those two, itll sound decent most anywhere. I just looked at those Sigmas..man, those are nice!
Reading this it seems that a lot of you use nice stereo units for playblack, but what about mastering? Teddy has some nice monitors. I have the chance to pickup some Earthworks Sigma 6.2s at a really good price, which would be leagues ahead of the current set of Alesis monitors I currently have.
Who else is using dedicated monitors and what are you using?
Wayne
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I just looked at those Sigmas..man, those are nice!
Yes, they are some of the best. In fact, you won't find a bad review of them. I did have to slum it though and get the black version and not the Cherry version (the cherry cost 5K a set! Ouch!).
Wayne