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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: SpareRibs on June 04, 2006, 10:38:23 PM
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Hi. I am thinking about getting the Denon 2910 universal player(around $700 or less). Even though it is a DVD player, I only plan on using it for audio purposes, espeically with high end headphones for audio clarity. It also has DVD-A too so I can hear your 24 bit recordings. This will be my very first time buying this kind of player without using it as a visual DVD source, only audio.
Any comments or advise about this kind of thing? I'm new to buying expensive playback equpiment.
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I have a 2900, the model before the 2910. It kicks ass.
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Hi. I am thinking about getting the Denon 2910 universal player(around $700 or less). Even though it is a DVD player, I only plan on using it for audio purposes, espeically with high end headphones for audio clarity. It also has DVD-A too so I can hear your 24 bit recordings. This will be my very first time buying this kind of player without using it as a visual DVD source, only audio.
Currently mine is sitting next to my bed with a m902 headphone amp :headphones:, I bought it solely for audio. I haven't had any compatability problems yet with any burned media (cd-r, dvd-a). When you take the thing out of the box you can feel it's no cheapo DVD player, it's very well built. The only thing I don't care for is that when using the seek I can't seek backwards into the previous track (any audio disc), not a big thing. If you shop around you can probably find it for just under $600 for a new unit.
Denon 2910 :coolguy:
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I have one as well and love it. I useit for both audio and video. And it does both very well. My only complaint is the remote . Its chunky and ugly. I know it sounds kind of superficiak but I would just expect a player of this (and looks) to have a sleeker sexier 'mote.
Shane
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I have a 2900, the model before the 2910. It kicks ass.
The audio in the 2900 will be better than the 2910. The equal (or slightly better) in regards to audio would be the 3910.
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I have a 2900, the model before the 2910. It kicks ass.
The audio in the 2900 will be better than the 2910. The equal (or slightly better) in regards to audio would be the 3910.
I've also heard that too. I will use it only for 2 channel listening for headphones. I think it only has bass management just in the DVD-A part but not the SACD part. Is bass managment an issue? Or is it just a thing for subwoofer and speakers and I don't have to worry about it?
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I have a 2900, the model before the 2910. It kicks ass.
The audio in the 2900 will be better than the 2910. The equal (or slightly better) in regards to audio would be the 3910.
I've also heard that too. I will use it only for 2 channel listening for headphones. I think it only has bass management just in the DVD-A part but not the SACD part. Is bass managment an issue? Or is it just a thing for subwoofer and speakers and I don't have to worry about it?
The bass management is for both SACD and DVD-A. You can set it to 2ch priority for both formats, I believe it's only applied when using the analog outs. For SACD you can't output dig, so you'll have to use the analog out. Some SACD formats may not allow the channels to be mixed for 2ch, so the front to channels will take priority. It's easy to set, you have a button on the front of the unit for multi/stereo, some other players you'd have to go through the menus to change the setting (not easy if it's only hooked up for audio).
It's a tough decision when you're buying a multi-format player, so many variables to consider. I bought mine with 2ch in mind, it might/might not be the best choice for the $ (don't have the cash to try all the others) but I'm happy with it so far.
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Cool thanks
I'm probably going to get the 2910 in the Fall. Some people say it's better than the 2900 while others say the opposite but either way, I'm sure they're both on the same playing field of excellence. The 2910 plays HDCD's while the 2900 does not. Can't wait to have my hands on it! ;D
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It's ripe for mods too ;D
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Cool thanks
I'm probably going to get the 2910 in the Fall. Some people say it's better than the 2900 while others say the opposite but either way, I'm sure they're both on the same playing field of excellence. The 2910 plays HDCD's while the 2900 does not. Can't wait to have my hands on it! ;D
I'd have to agree that from what I've read the 2900 is a better unti for audio. While you could get the 2900 for about the same price or even less it was only because it was the older model, when it was new it was over $1000. It's not really something you can base your decision on since it's no longer available (used :crazy: for a player, no thanks) unless you're willing to fork out the extra cheese (about $400 more) for the 3910.
The Pioneer Elite's are something to look into as well. Any other suggestions out there?
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I think I've decided to get the Denon 3910 instead. Is it better in audio than the 2900 and 2910?
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What are you looking to spend? Might be willing to part with my SP-1000.
Yes the 3910 is better than the 2910 by far, but only a tad better than the 2900. I take it you are using the analog outs?
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Yes. I will be using it with the Headroom hybrid Millet tube amp. It's a headphone tube amp from headroom company
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its a great unit.
i can't figure out why someone would mod it- its a fantastic player on its own, plus it aint cheap.
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i've got the 2910 and love it, plays almost anything you can throw at it.
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its a great unit.
i can't figure out why someone would mod it- its a fantastic player on its own, plus it aint cheap.
Anything can be modded to sound better IMO, better capcitors, rerouting of digital signals, fast recovery diodes, the list goes on an on...
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does it digi-out 24/192 ?
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I have the 2900 Like Micheal, and it is fantastic. I am sure the 2910 is awesome too.
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Does anyone know anything about the new DVD-2930CI and how that stacks up in comapred to the 2900/2910/3910?
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I have a Sony XA20-ES, a giant killer of its era that's still looks and works like it just came out of the box. Would I get a major upgrade in CD Audio from these Denon's under discussion?
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Can anyone tell me if the Denon 2900/2910 has digital audio output of Stereo at 24 bit with 192kHz sampling rate ?
TIA
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I do not believe it will output 24/196 but I have never had a signal that high to play... For some info (I sell these things at work and i own one)... The 2910 and the 3910 are pretty much the same units as far as audio playback are concerned. The difference is an improved transport and the Denon link cable (mostly a plus if you listen to SACD... and happen to have a AVR3806 or better). the new 2930CI is somewhat of a different animal.... in the video that is. Denon has had, for the past few years, a problem with the Farujia (sp) chips in their DVD Players in that video tended to have a purple haze on it. This year they switched the vid chip set to the Realta T2. So far Denon hasn't told us...via our reps. sheite about the audio side as compared to the 2910. As long as it is as good it will still be the best sub $1K solution that does DVD, DVD-A, Red Book, SACD, VCD...etc... on the market.
"And remember, I'm not only the priesident... I'm also a client..." :yack:
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Can anyone tell me if the Denon 2900/2910 has digital audio output of Stereo at 24 bit with 192kHz sampling rate ?
TIA
I'm using my Grace m902 as a DAC and pre, to be quite honest I like the sound of the 2910 via the analog output better than digital>m902. To me it's a non-issue since I prefer the analog out. If I could find some DVD burning software that wasn't a total pain in the ass to use I might be able to test and try.
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Can anyone tell me if the Denon 2900/2910 has digital audio output of Stereo at 24 bit with 192kHz sampling rate ?
TIA
I'm using my Grace m902 as a DAC and pre, to be quite honest I like the sound of the 2910 via the analog output better than digital>m902. To me it's a non-issue since I prefer the analog out. If I could find some DVD burning software that wasn't a total pain in the ass to use I might be able to test and try.
Audio DVD creator...as easy as Nero
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DVD Audio creator, despite its name, does not burn DVD-A... it burns DVD-V.
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DVD Audio creator, despite its name, does not burn DVD-A... it burns DVD-V.
and to make sure no one is confused...will burn 24/96 and 24/48 capable discs...just in DVD-V format. These discs playback perfectly on my Pioneer Elite DV-45A
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Can anyone tell me if the Denon 2900/2910 has digital audio output of Stereo at 24 bit with 192kHz sampling rate ?
TIA
no, looking at page 13 of the manual, it downsamples 24/192 material to 24/96 for the digi-out.
additionally, it will not output over 16/48 for any copyrighted PCM material.
Can anyone tell me if the Denon 2900/2910 has digital audio output of Stereo at 24 bit with 192kHz sampling rate ?
TIA
I'm using my Grace m902 as a DAC and pre, to be quite honest I like the sound of the 2910 via the analog output better than digital>m902. To me it's a non-issue since I prefer the analog out. If I could find some DVD burning software that wasn't a total pain in the ass to use I might be able to test and try.
curious about this statement...what is the rest of your system? I have never heard one of those grace boxes, but if the denon outperforms it, i may have to look at this player. anyone else using a grace headphone amp/DAC as a pre-amp? do all-in-one boxes typically sound better than it as a front end?
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DVD Audio creator, despite its name, does not burn DVD-A... it burns DVD-V.
and to make sure no one is confused...will burn 24/96 and 24/48 capable discs...just in DVD-V format. These discs playback perfectly on my Pioneer Elite DV-45A
Well it burns them as linear PCM, wich is good, but I have never been able to verify that the 2910 does not downsample the data. In fact I have not found a way to confirm what bit rate and sample rate actually gets burned to the discs by DVD-Audio creator at all. When I put a Disc Wielder Disc in the 2910 I get the L.PCM light and the DVD-Audio light so I am fairly confident that it is actually reading 24/48 or 24/96 data. I jsut wish there was a way to confirm that the DVD-V discs actually get decoded at the proper rate.
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DVD Audio creator, despite its name, does not burn DVD-A... it burns DVD-V.
and to make sure no one is confused...will burn 24/96 and 24/48 capable discs...just in DVD-V format. These discs playback perfectly on my Pioneer Elite DV-45A
Well it burns them as linear PCM, wich is good, but I have never been able to verify that the 2910 does not downsample the data. In fact I have not found a way to confirm what bit rate and sample rate actually gets burned to the discs by DVD-Audio creator at all. When I put a Disc Wielder Disc in the 2910 I get the L.PCM light and the DVD-Audio light so I am fairly confident that it is actually reading 24/48 or 24/96 data. I jsut wish there was a way to confirm that the DVD-V discs actually get decoded at the proper rate.
are you using the internal DAC on the 2910 or outputting digitally to a receiver or external DAC?
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Reciever... what the heck is that!?!?! Tubes man... all tubes :yahoo:
So, I'll stop being a wise ass and answer the question. I use the DA in the 2910. It is the only device in my playback system that even has a remote. My playback system is in my sig if you are curious.
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I am curious, but can you post it as I have signatures turned off so that they are hidden.
if you are using the internal DACs on the 2910, why would you think the unit might be downsampling the data?
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Current Setup: MK41>KC5(thanks Hubie)>CMC6>V2>722
Old Setup ('01>'05) AKG c34>S42>Sonosax or EAA PSP2>AD1K>D-10ProI
Playback: Denon DVD2910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre>Rogue 88 [KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M5510Pro conditioner.
Tascam DA-20> P. Millett Prototype Hybrid Tube Headphone Amp>Clou Red Cable>HD-600s or E4Cs
I don't know... I'm just not sure how it processes DVD-V audio data. There are other units that use separate algorhythims for different data streams. I also don't know of a way to check the actuall data output of DVD Audio Creator to make sure the files are bit perfect.
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what I can tell with DVD-V discs is that the sample rate transferred from my Pioneer Elite DV45A via SPDIF to my Sony 3000ES is that it receives a 96 Khz stream (the receiver shows that the sample rate it receives...though not bit depth. The only other way I have for comparison is to listen to the 16Bit then the 24Bit and the sound is vastly different...both via SPDIF...not slightly different so that you could attribute it to a dithering process...but significant...deeper and wider soundstage and significantly better instrument definition across the range...but as I said, outside of the sample rate that the receiver is reporting it receives, my ears are my only other method for confirming 24 bit playback
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I don't know... I'm just not sure how it processes DVD-V audio data. There are other units that use separate algorhythims for different data streams. I also don't know of a way to check the actuall data output of DVD Audio Creator to make sure the files are bit perfect.
i highly doubt it is resampling prior to converting to analog. there is just no need to put that step in there when the box has a 24/192 DAC, at least not at the level of a $750 box.
what I can tell with DVD-V discs is that the sample rate transferred from my Pioneer Elite DV45A via SPDIF to my Sony 3000ES is that it receives a 96 Khz stream (the receiver shows that the sample rate it receives...though not bit depth. The only other way I have for comparison is to listen to the 16Bit then the 24Bit and the sound is vastly different...both via SPDIF...not slightly different so that you could attribute it to a dithering process...but significant...deeper and wider soundstage and significantly better instrument definition across the range...but as I said, outside of the sample rate that the receiver is reporting it receives, my ears are my only other method for confirming 24 bit playback
i'm sure it's not dithering but not resampling. so it's nearly 100% that it's 24/96.
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I don't know... I'm just not sure how it processes DVD-V audio data. There are other units that use separate algorhythims for different data streams. I also don't know of a way to check the actuall data output of DVD Audio Creator to make sure the files are bit perfect.
i highly doubt it is resampling prior to converting to analog. there is just no need to put that step in there when the box has a 24/192 DAC, at least not at the level of a $750 box.
what I can tell with DVD-V discs is that the sample rate transferred from my Pioneer Elite DV45A via SPDIF to my Sony 3000ES is that it receives a 96 Khz stream (the receiver shows that the sample rate it receives...though not bit depth. The only other way I have for comparison is to listen to the 16Bit then the 24Bit and the sound is vastly different...both via SPDIF...not slightly different so that you could attribute it to a dithering process...but significant...deeper and wider soundstage and significantly better instrument definition across the range...but as I said, outside of the sample rate that the receiver is reporting it receives, my ears are my only other method for confirming 24 bit playback
i'm sure it's not dithering but not resampling. so it's nearly 100% that it's 24/96.
yeah, what I was trying to say is the difference that I hear in the same recording, one at 16 bit and one at 24 bit (recorded on DVD-V) is significant and I wasnt willing to attribute that to the fact that my dither process made the 16 Bit sound inferior...so I am left with the assumption that I am getting all 24 bits transfered on playback. That coupled with the fact that I am receiving the right sample rate makes me comfortable that I am getting 24/96 via DVD-V, even though I cant point to a light or status message telling me so.
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Well all this bodes well for my car system. I put a Alpine DVD deck in my car to play DVD-A. It will not play DVD-A but it does play DVD-V so every show I get now I have to burn a DVD-A for home and a DVD-V for my car. I had been concerned that it was doing something screwy but as I think it through in light of this discussion it makes sense that it would just D>A it and be done... No matter what, it is nice being able to listen to nothing but 24/96 where ever I am. :drummer:
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Can anyone tell me if the Denon 2900/2910 has digital audio output of Stereo at 24 bit with 192kHz sampling rate ?
TIA
no, looking at page 13 of the manual, it downsamples 24/192 material to 24/96 for the digi-out.
additionally, it will not output over 16/48 for any copyrighted PCM material.
Can anyone tell me if the Denon 2900/2910 has digital audio output of Stereo at 24 bit with 192kHz sampling rate ?
TIA
I'm using my Grace m902 as a DAC and pre, to be quite honest I like the sound of the 2910 via the analog output better than digital>m902. To me it's a non-issue since I prefer the analog out. If I could find some DVD burning software that wasn't a total pain in the ass to use I might be able to test and try.
curious about this statement...what is the rest of your system? I have never heard one of those grace boxes, but if the denon outperforms it, i may have to look at this player. anyone else using a grace headphone amp/DAC as a pre-amp? do all-in-one boxes typically sound better than it as a front end?
The rest of my system is as follows:
Denon 2910 analog ---> m902 (preferred the analog over digital, which makes me happy because swapping from pc/Denon is a pain)
Tascam DVRA balanced ---> m902
PC dig coax ---> m902
Swapped between the following amps: B&K ST-202 plus (currently), AQ1001DT (like the high end of the AQ slightly better, plus it's an integrated so 2 volume controls can be a pain.
Speakers: B&W 705's and an Outlaw Audio LFM-1plus
through the analog out the Denon seems to sound a bit more lively, slightly colored, the m902 a bit dry, maybe analytical. (perhaps due to it's purpose as a reference unit) Additionally the 2910 can do HDCD decoding, something the m902 cannot, a much more dramatic difference can be heard here.
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cool. While i haven't heard one, I generally question the use of the grace DAC/headphone amp as a stand-alone pre. and i kinda think your experience with the 2910 illustrates that. The grace boxes are designed to be extremely detailed and precise so that when the signal is fed through a pre-amp, the pre-amp is getting a very precise uncolored signal. It makes sense to me that it would sound "dry" or "clinical" when being used as a standalone pre-amp.
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cool. While i haven't heard one, I generally question the use of the grace DAC/headphone amp as a stand-alone pre. and i kinda think your experience with the 2910 illustrates that. The grace boxes are designed to be extremely detailed and precise so that when the signal is fed through a pre-amp, the pre-amp is getting a very precise uncolored signal. It makes sense to me that it would sound "dry" or "clinical" when being used as a standalone pre-amp.
As a pre it's great, at least that I can have 3-4 different devices going to it and remote volume control. I LOVE it as a headphone amp, it's just amazing in that reguard. I don't have any experience with any other pres for comparison sake, but as a pre it's near perfect for what I want/need and it makes for a compact system, no need for a monster rack.
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"And remember, I'm not only the priesident... I'm also a client..." :yack:
(http://www.sysperling.com/images/Sy-Sperling-photo-300.jpg)
Would you bee-lieve that I...am wearing a hair-piece? ;D
Just where have all the good commercials gone?