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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Gutbucket on July 11, 2006, 12:13:47 PM
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Aquiring some mini DPA's soon and wondering about the differences between the 4060's and the 4061's by those who have actually used both. From the specs I know the difference in sensitivity, max SPL, self-noise, S/N ratio, etc. but how does that translate in real world recording scenarios for quieter acoustic sources and ambience type applications requiring clean gain and low noise levels? From what I've heard, high SPL's don't seem to be too much of a problem for the 4060's.
DPA is now offering a stereo kit (SMK4061) with hand matched 4061's, XLR/phantom adaptors, boundry layer mounts, foams, and multiple mounting clips that seems to be a good deal considering the cost of matching and all the individual components. After a few emails with DPA I'm told that unfortunately the kit is not available for the 4060's, but the same handmatching can be done for an additional fee and of course all the component parts from the stereo kit are available piece meal. Doing it that way would cost a good bit more of course.
The stereo kit seems ideal for my appilcations: dual use as accoustic instrument mics as well as for live music & ambience stereo recording and I'd jump on it if it was available with 4060's. The boundry layer mounts, foams and instrument clips would certainly come in handy. I would'nt need the XLR/phantom adaptors initially since I'll be using a MMA6000, though I may want them in the future.
I'm much less concerned with high SPL handling than good low noise performance in my applications. Assuming I can get enough clean gain with the 4061>MMA6000 chain the only issue I may have is mic self-noise/pre-amp noise for quieter sources. My question is: in reallity how much better is the self-noise and S/N for the 4060's than the 4061's for use on quiet sources? Am I splitting hairs?
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I just bought some 4060s a few months ago and if I had know about the 4061 kit I would have gone that route.
I went with the 4060s so I could record quieter acts. I think I would be fine with the 4061's.
That kit sounds like a good deal...how much is it?
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Prices below are retail direct from DPA:
SMK4061 kit 995$
4060 or 4661 mics alone $425 ea.
Matching fee $75
Photo & info on the kit at http://www.dpamicrophones.com/
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Hum, I think I paid around $800 for both 4060s.
I don't need the XLR adapters since I have the MMA6000. I'd personally rather go the route I went with. For $1200 I got 2x 4060s and the MMA6000. I do need to order a pair of the extension cables. You will need those if you want to run on a stand higher that about 6 feet.
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Hum, I think I paid around $800 for both 4060s.
I don't need the XLR adapters since I have the MMA6000. I'd personally rather go the route I went with. For $1200 I got 2x 4060s and the MMA6000. I do need to order a pair of the extension cables. You will need those if you want to run on a stand higher that about 6 feet.
I need those cables!
I've taken to velcro'ing the mma6k to the stand, and dropping ouput cables down to the deck ::)
qft. exactly what I do.
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You know, I think you may be right. The extension cables would probably be much more useful to me than the phantom/XLR adaptors since I'd likely be using the MMA6k whenever I use the mics. Those adaptors are the pricer bits of the kit excepting the mics themselves. I think 2 extensions would run about the price of one XLR adaptor.
The boundry layer mounts are $25 ea. (I was also thinking about the j-disc mod). I'd like to have 'em. Everything else is sort of gravy.. tasty though. They don't really explain the differences between all those mounting clips, other than some attach with adhesive tape and one uses a magnet (useless for me). I can't imagine there is anything special about the foams other than they are 'official DPA', again.. nice to have, but I have some cheap Sound Pro's mini-foams laying around.
I may just go with my initial instincts and get the model that seems to better fit my applications: matched 4060's - unless someone persuades me that there really isn't much difference and my quiet stuff won't suffer signifigantly with the 61's. I assume only on the really low level ambient/nature stuff would the 60's make a difference.. That kit is damn tempting though.
I'll pull the trigger in the next couple days, maybe someone who's used both will chime in before then. Thanks for the decision making help, guys.
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to me, the 4060's seem like the best of both worlds. I have 4060->MMA6K, and I record in a lot of high SPL situations (death metal?) - and I've yet to find them to be *too* sensitive. In addition, they'll perform better in lower volume situations than the 4061s.
just my $.02 - other opinions may differ, but this is what it seems to me.
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I think I've come to the same conclusion. Thanks for the confirmation.
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On dimeadozen.org search for "4060" torrents and you will find a TOOL-concert taped with "DPA 4060´s"...they sound excellent in high SPL too! ;)
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=94323
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get the 4061. the 4060 are way to sensitive. I got both and hate >:D the 4060 on gigs that are just a lil louder. For very quite acoustic gigs the 4060 are really good. But you can also manage this with the 4061
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get the 4061. the 4060 are way to sensitive. I got both and hate >:D the 4060 on gigs that are just a lil louder. For very quite acoustic gigs the 4060 are really good. But you can also manage this with the 4061
I have often run 4060s for Bruckner or Mahler symphonies from the front row, absolutely no problems and spectacular sound. If that's your idea of "a quiet acoustic gig" I'm glad to stay away from "loud acoustic gigs" which must include exploding percussion and jet engine noises. If it makes your ears bleed, go for the 4061s by all means.
Jeff
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The reason for there beeing both the 4060 and the 4061 is not to get a higher max SPL. It is instead to get lower gain as the 4060 can overload the wireless transmitters used on stage in musicals and such (the main market for these little things). If your preamp can take it, the 4060 is a better mic with lower noise floor and a respectable SPL handling that allows you to record anywhere people can stand it.
Gunnar
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Yes, and it also overloaded the mic input of the Sony M1 DAT, unless you used an attenuator cable with it. I suspect the same is true of most of the current crop of solid state and hard drive recorders. But if you use the DPA preamp (MMA6000) with it the 4060 is golden pretty much everywhere.
Jeff
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Yes, and it also overloaded the mic input of the Sony M1 DAT, unless you used an attenuator cable with it. I suspect the same is true of most of the current crop of solid state and hard drive recorders. But if you use the DPA preamp (MMA6000) with it the 4060 is golden pretty much everywhere.
Jeff
Edirol R09 mic in also has tons of headroom. I've never tried DPA, but it is impossible to overload it with any reasonable signal.
Richard
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A decent preamp (DPA, CA, SP etc) should fix the problem with overloading no?
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A decent preamp (DPA, CA, SP etc) should fix the problem with overloading no?
I think the Sony DAT recorders mic-in overloaded from time to time ....speaking of the TOOL recording on dime.
Shouldn´t be a problem for the Edirol´s R09 LINE-IN or a RH1´s LINE-IN.
Of course cranking up the preamp too high may overload these LINE-IN inputs aswell.
As always it´s a process of try and error and learning to handle your gear ;) according to the SPL at the specific show you are taping.
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Yes, and it also overloaded the mic input of the Sony M1 DAT, unless you used an attenuator cable with it. I suspect the same is true of most of the current crop of solid state and hard drive recorders. But if you use the DPA preamp (MMA6000) with it the 4060 is golden pretty much everywhere.
Jeff
Edirol R09 mic in also has tons of headroom. I've never tried DPA, but it is impossible to overload it with any reasonable signal.
Richard
thats correct richard.
i used my dpa 4061 + 12v bbox on the R09´s mic-in taping 20m in front of the right stack ...blood sweat and tears with lots of bass+drum coming from the stack.
no problem for neither my 4061s nor my r09 preamp.
on line-in "MY" 4061´s are not sensitive enough even for loud shows.
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hi DPA-gurus :P
I´m "in danger" of purchasing a matched pair DPA 4060 from core-sound (without the CS-bbox)terminated to a right-angle-plug and want to use them for silent stuff AND for amplified rock shows.
I usually place myself somewhere near the soundboard. So I think I´ll be fine with the 4060´s 134dB SPL for both silent and loud shows.
What´s your opinion....4060´s or 4061´s???
I´m 100% stealthing and will use my 12v "SP-SPBS-9" soundprofessionals keychain-bbox (which is temporarily out of stock at SP due to a supply bottleneck).
Will use my RH1 HI-MD recorder(with a top-notch internal preamp) or my iriver h120 rockboxed for taping shows SPL-wise like THE POLICE, Red Hot Chili Peppers or small club gigs from jazz to blues.
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I use 4061's>spsb3>d100 line in for loud shows, get good levels and never brickwall. this has to be for loud shows only.
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in my experience, for most louder shows(all the shows I went to, mostly jam bands), the 4061 went in to the line in of a D7/8 set to bw 7 and 10 and gave ideal levels. I was usually up closer to the stage where it was louder. No experience with the more sensitive 4060's but for the stuff I recorded, I think the 4061 is more appropiate.
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You should be fine with the 4060s. I run 4060s > MMA6000 > R09 and I've taped some fairly loud shows in small clubs with no prob. I run the R09 line-in with rec level at 8 and adjust the pre for levels. On loud stuff I usually end up somewhere around 2-3 clicks on the MMA pre (each click is supposed to be about 2.5 dB gain). ("clicks" for lack of a better term at the moment)
I love the 4060s.
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I just mailed the swedish DPA retailer in Stockholm as their prices are way below the Austrian or German ones ;).
asked for
set 1: 2x DPA 4060 + MPS6030 supply
set 2: 2 x DPA 4061 + MMA6000 preamp
will let you know how much it is with shipping to Austria.....
;)
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Sorry in german this time:
Mir wurden anfangs auch die 4060er empfohlen und ich habe sie dann blind gekauft, weil alle meinten, "die sind toll, das passt schon wegen der "sensitivity"".
Für lautere Konzerte, gerade wenn man weiter vorne steht ist mir das Klangbild einfach viel zu "bassig, breiig", das hat mich dermaßen geärgert, daß ich mir nun ein paar 4061 gekauft und mit diesen bin erstmals einigermaßen zufrieden.
Ich kann also nur nochmals die 4061 empfehlen und würde von den 4060ern abraten.
Und kauf dir unbedingt das MMA6000, damit wird die Aufnahme nochmals umsoviel besser - das ist wahnsinn ;)
DPA plant in Zukunft auch miniatur-cardioid-mikros herzustellen. Sobald die draussen sind werde ich die kaufen. Ich glaube ich bin einfach kein Fan von omidirektionalen Mikrofonen..
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In the DPA 406x manual, it gives these figures for sensitivity:
4060 20 mV/Pa; -34 dB
4061 6 mV/Pa; -44.5 dB
Does this mean that 4060s have 10.5 dB more gain that 4061s?
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In the DPA 406x manual, it gives these figures for sensitivity:
4060 20 mV/Pa; -34 dB
4061 6 mV/Pa; -44.5 dB
Does this mean that 4060s have 10.5 dB more gain that 4061s?
yes, correctly ;).
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NEVER tape ANY loud and bassy metal shows with dpa4060s ;), mine distorted yesterday. I will get dpa4061 next week from my local DPA-wholesaler and return the 4060´s. i wanted to find the 4060´s limit and yesterday I found it ;).
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NEVER tape ANY loud and bassy metal shows with dpa4060s ;), mine distorted yesterday. I will get dpa4061 next week from my local DPA-wholesaler and return the 4060´s. i wanted to find the 4060´s limit and yesterday I found it ;).
I really don't get this. If DPA 4060s are rated at 134 dB, this should almost always be enough. I mean, most other mics aren't rated any higher than this. Many are even in the 120s range.
Now if it's a question of the amount of gain and it overdriving the levels on your recorder to the point where you can't turn them down enough, that's something different.
But do the 4060s themselves really get overdriven that easily? I have 4061s, but sometimes I wonder if it's overkill.
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NEVER tape ANY loud and bassy metal shows with dpa4060s ;), mine distorted yesterday. I will get dpa4061 next week from my local DPA-wholesaler and return the 4060´s. i wanted to find the 4060´s limit and yesterday I found it ;).
I really don't get this. If DPA 4060s are rated at 134 dB, this should almost always be enough. I mean, most other mics aren't rated any higher than this. Many are even in the 120s range.
Now if it's a question of the amount of gain and it overdriving the levels on your recorder to the point where you can't turn them down enough, that's something different.
But do the 4060s themselves really get overdriven that easily? I have 4061s, but sometimes I wonder if it's overkill.
i used my iriver h120 and it could be the line-in analog stage got overloaded by the hot 4060 input.
the levels were peaking at about -6dB max....so enough headroom internally but either the mics or the analog line-in distorted. i used NO internal gain at all from the iriver...was set to 0dB in rockbox.
it was extremely loud and bassy yesterday...even with earplugs my ears felt somehow "funny" after the show.
shows like THE POLICE are no problem for the 4060´s as longs as you don´t stand in front of the stacks or in the first rows in front of the stacks.