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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: morningdew on August 03, 2006, 09:16:01 PM
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I was blessed but cursed at the same time today. My Bose Acoustamass 15 system wouldn't wake up today. I've been planning to replace them but wanted to wait until I have a bigger bankroll.
So I need to replace them ASAP.
Budget: $600 probably could do $700 but let's try to hit $600 or less
1. Just 2-channel but would like to someday add surround speakers and possibly a sub.
2. Driven by a Sony DA3000ES
3. More interested in 2-channel playback than movies.
4. Need to be brand new and readably available.
5. Moderate size or smaller, just not huge, taller than wider would be better for my room.
6. Room size 14' X 17', standard 8' ceiling
7. Carpeting now but will be wood floors soon.
So whiich set of speaker should I buy?
Thanks.
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With that budget some near field speakers would work. If you got the speakers used, you may be able to fit a sub-woofer in there. I like the Tannoys, but I like that British sound, as I drive mine with a Cambridge Audio amp. There are plenty of guys/ gals with speaker opinions here that will chime in with good choices...
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A pair of B&W 602 S3 would sound really nice in a room that size. For the size and price point I don't think you'll find much as accurate as these.
90dB sensitivity
49Hz-22kHz +-3dB on referance axis
19.3 in H x 9.3 in W x 11.5 in D (B&W also sells a stand for them)
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B&W Online retailers?
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B&W Online retailers?
nope, must get them locally. Most dealers can budge ~10% off of list.
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Thanks, found a local dealer.
Now what about speaker wire. The Bose always had the included wire. You're not going to talk me into needing some high dollar wire (at least not yet). I only need 10' per speaker. I've read briefly that some people who don't buy into the high dollar wire even use Cat-5 wire. I've actually got a ton of that stuff laying around. How do they wire it?
Edit: I also have a spool of Belden 1804a mini-quad wire that I was going to make some mic cables with but ended up going a different route, could use this?
For now I'd like to get something quick and easy. Would like to use them in the near future.
Both sets of speakers I'm looking at are 8 ohms 90dB sensitivity driven by a Sony DA3000ES receiver.
Thanks.
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You should look at Paradigm as well. Excellent construction and beautiful performance. I've got Monitor 3 (main) and Mini Monitor (rear) sets.
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I have been ecstatic about the sound of my Quad L22's but you may be able to pick up some L21's for around $700.
here is the guy i got mine from.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ddspkrfull&1159497816
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I second the Paradigm recommendation, I was running some reference active 20's for a while and was really happy with them. Paradigms are very neutral in the midrange with a bit of bump in the low end for bass impact.
Some other brands to check out:
Infinity (yes, mass market, but excellently engineered to reasonable price points)
PSB
NHT
Definitive Technology
Klipsch
Usher
Magnepan (planar speakers, unique sound in comparison to cone-and-box types)
Martin Logan (also planar)
audiogon is a lot of fun to poke around, www.audiogon.com
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A pair of B&W 602 S3 would sound really nice in a room that size. For the size and price point I don't think you'll find much as accurate as these.
90dB sensitivity
49Hz-22kHz +-3dB on referance axis
19.3 in H x 9.3 in W x 11.5 in D (B&W also sells a stand for them)
I have a pair of 303s... love them.
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Audiogon is your friend. I'd ditch requirement #4 and buy used. Speaker technology moves very slowly, and they depreciate pretty quickly. A $1200 pair of speakers will set you back like $600 only a few years after they were new, and they've still got many many good years in 'em. B&W P6 or 603 S3 would be around $600. I doubt you could get a pair of Martin Logan Aerius for that much unless it was a motivated local seller. Thiel 1.5? Vandersteen 2ce or 1b/c (leaving some money to spare)? Maybe a Totem model 1 and some stands, but these are holding their value unusually well.
Good luck...
- Jason
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Audiogon is your friend. I'd ditch requirement #4 and buy used. Speaker technology moves very slowly, and they depreciate pretty quickly. A $1200 pair of speakers will set you back like $600 only a few years after they were new, and they've still got many many good years in 'em. B&W P6 or 603 S3 would be around $600. I doubt you could get a pair of Martin Logan Aerius for that much unless it was a motivated local seller. Thiel 1.5? Vandersteen 2ce or 1b/c (leaving some money to spare)? Maybe a Totem model 1 and some stands, but these are holding their value unusually well.
Good luck...
- Jason
I concur, a Vandy 1C pair is around $700 new, and I"m sure you can get some version of the 2C used for around that price (or lower). I have a nearly 20 year old pair of 2Cs, and they still sound great, although they are not my primary speaker any longer, they are a classic.
Vandersteens are good if you like a bit more laid-back sound with a good bottom end kick, Thiels are more for folks who like the sound to be a bit more 'in their face', and the Totems are not as forward as the Thiels - and not as laidback as Vandy's, but without the Vandersteen low end.
enjoy,
clay
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maggies / martin logans : take those off your list. the Sony wont drive them properly. It can't handle a 4 ohm load, so keep that in mind.
in your price range, and given your desire to go surround in the future, i'd also check out some paradigms. they sound great, and are reasonably priced.
Me, id go straight to a pair of Von Schweikert VR1 monitors. they go down to 40hz, image like nobodies business, and are just awesome all around. I'm sure you can find a used pair in your budget, and still be able to sell them for what you paid for them..even in a year or two, should you desire a change.
audiogon.com
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Me, id go straight to a pair of Von Schweikert VR1 monitors. they go down to 40hz, image like nobodies business, and are just awesome all around. I'm sure you can find a used pair in your budget, and still be able to sell them for what you paid for them..even in a year or two, should you desire a change.
VR1's are what came to my mind at first too....
Someone suggested Klipsch, but I would make sure that you're looking at their good stuff, and not their mass produced stuff. I picked up a pair of Heresy II's that were built in 90 or 91, and I love them. Very crisp, forward, and detailed in the high end (probably from the horn design of the tweeter) but they *need* a sub. They only go down to 100hz or something like that. They were $450 used...
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Audiogon is your friend. I'd ditch requirement #4 and buy used. Speaker technology moves very slowly, and they depreciate pretty quickly. A $1200 pair of speakers will set you back like $600 only a few years after they were new, and they've still got many many good years in 'em. B&W P6 or 603 S3 would be around $600. I doubt you could get a pair of Martin Logan Aerius for that much unless it was a motivated local seller. Thiel 1.5? Vandersteen 2ce or 1b/c (leaving some money to spare)? Maybe a Totem model 1 and some stands, but these are holding their value unusually well.
Good luck...
- Jason
You can do a search by your zipcode, so you can find stuff close to you. THat way you can go over and try it out before buying, and it reduces any shipping, etc...
I've used Craig's List as well...
Terry
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FWIW, I really like my VR-1's paired with my Sony STR-DA3000ES. I'm regularly surprised at the sound, imaging, etc. coming out of these smaller-than-I-expected speakers. I also picked up a pair of inexpensive stands. As with all speakers, placement is key to achieving the best sound. Given our very small / narrow room, I pull mine out from the rear wall for critical listening vs. leaving them in a less-than-ideal place for TV and such. Still working towards a surround sound setup.
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Thanks guys for all the great info.
I ended up with the B & W DM602 S3's. I was just too impatient to wait for used. I was without my open system and it was driving me crazy. But now that I'm back to listening I plan to take my time and start auditioning more speakers. If I find something I fall in love with I'll just have these be my surround speakers.
Oh and by the way, I now have a Bose Acoustimass AM-15 system that will soon be up for sale. I first have to send in the sub/power unit to Bose for repair and then I'll be selling it, probably e-bay. But, if you know anyone who might be interested in the system I can let it go for less than they are selling on e-bay (used) and the sub/base unit will be redone and Bose gives it a complete checkup along with a one-year warranty (I'm unsure if this is transferable). I have two Bose stands as well. In all honesty going from this to the B & W's is like night and day as far as the two channel listening is concerned. The Bose is definately listenable, as I'm sure you're all aware, but in 2-channel mode it is nothing compared to the B & W's and I'm sure the other speakers that were suggested. However, it makes a nice quick and economically surround system.
The salesman told me that the B & W's would take about a month to break in and would start sounding better and bring out more bass. When I first heard them I thought "if they only sound better over the next month, I'm in good shape." At first I thought the bass was a little too lacking but now after three days of quite a bit of listening they do seem like the bass is getting better. Maybe it's all in my head though. Plus, I'm still messing with placement.
One last thing. For Sony STR-DA300ES owners. I haven't pushed the volume level past -20dB, per the salesman rec. and they don't seem as loud as I expected. Is this normal? I thought at a 150W per channel it would be shaking the walls. I haven't given them full power but it doesn't seem like they will be as loud as I expected. I was planning on adding a power-amp but wanted to wait on that purchase for awhile. Don't get wrong, they get loud (with a very clear sound) but it just doesn't seem like they will get REAL loud.
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One last thing. For Sony STR-DA300ES owners. I haven't pushed the volume level past -20dB, per the salesman rec. and they don't seem as loud as I expected. Is this normal?
I push mine past -20 dB regularly for listening. Not sure why the salesman recommended not to do so. I get plenty of volume out of mine, but I definitely have to crank the volume knob further around the dial than a traditional pre/amp combo to get the loud out.
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+T for toys
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Thanks guys for all the great info.
I ended up with the B & W DM602 S3's.
Congrats on the purchase! I think you'll enjoy them!
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I own the 602.5 s3
;D
+T
I have a 30w per channel tube amp and my speakers get LOUD at 11 o'clock on the volume dial.
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Thanks, found a local dealer.
Now what about speaker wire. The Bose always had the included wire. You're not going to talk me into needing some high dollar wire (at least not yet). I only need 10' per speaker. I've read briefly that some people who don't buy into the high dollar wire even use Cat-5 wire. I've actually got a ton of that stuff laying around. How do they wire it?
Edit: I also have a spool of Belden 1804a mini-quad wire that I was going to make some mic cables with but ended up going a different route, could use this?
For now I'd like to get something quick and easy. Would like to use them in the near future.
Both sets of speakers I'm looking at are 8 ohms 90dB sensitivity driven by a Sony DA3000ES receiver.
Thanks.
Just use lampcord. Save the 1804a for mic cables!
Richard
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I would urn the sony up until it
A. Gets loud enough
B. Starts to distort
If the Sony's really 150w and the B&W's are 90 db, you should be melting faces before you hit 10 o'clock on the volume control. If that's not happening, check to make sure your speaker cable is wired correctly (red>red / black>black). Wiring your speakers out of phase (red>black) will reduce your system's bass response as well as overall volume.
Chris
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LOUD should be around 0db.
thats what I used to push my VR4's (also 90db) for "concert volume" w/my 3000es.
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LOUD should be around 0db.
thats what I used to push my VR4's (also 90db) for "concert volume" w/my 3000es.
agreed...my regular listening level is somewhere around -12 to -6
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B&Ws are the shit
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LOUD should be around 0db.
thats what I used to push my VR4's (also 90db) for "concert volume" w/my 3000es.
agreed...my regular listening level is somewhere around -12 to -6
B&Ws are the shit
i agree on both accounts.
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One last thing. For Sony STR-DA300ES owners. I haven't pushed the volume level past -20dB, per the salesman rec. and they don't seem as loud as I expected. Is this normal?
I push mine past -20 dB regularly for listening. Not sure why the salesman recommended not to do so. I get plenty of volume out of mine, but I definitely have to crank the volume knob further around the dial than a traditional pre/amp combo to get the loud out.
Agreed. I run mine -12 more often than anything else. Def Tech 7004's for speakers. LOUD is the way everything should be played.
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i am going thru the same thing as your bro, i have a bose surround setup w/ a JVC RX-6000V receiver that i bought many years ago as a combo deal and NEED nice speakers/amp, nuf said, the bose as a two-channel playback(the way i prefer them) is LACKING, bass is decent but the highs get brittle and i want a nice phat sound they uust dont have
the nicer gear i buy, thye more i want playback, i bought all of the gear first tho, and im content w/ my recording setup so its time to upgrade the playback setup ;D
same boat as you
i am gonna get some speakers off of chris sheperd(csheperd on here) and spend about 1200 or so, and get an amp around the same time, then pay bills off for a year or so ;D
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B&Ws are the shit
Yes, they are. I have a pair of 802s that I use for mixing/mastering. I went through two other pairs before falling in love with these. powered by a bryston at the moment.
Now I need some actual "listening/playback" speakers. :-[ Nick, that stingray and the VRs are on my list...
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anytime bro.
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O.k. good news. I'd say -12 to 0 is what I like the Sony STR DA3000ES at when I'm the only one home. This just seemed strange to me. Because I assume if I go in the + range then I'm clipping and I've read you shouldn't send clipped audio to speakers because it isn't good for them.
I'm really enjoying the B & W's. They seem to image very well and give a good sense of depth perception. Sometimes I wonder if this stuff is just in my head but in a lot of the CDs I've been listening to I sense some instruments as being closer than others.
They seem a little thin in the bass but I have some crappy placement right now because I'm remodeling my basement. The right speaker sets in front of an open alcove. If stand behind that speaker the bass sounds greatl, so I need to get it in front of wall but it will have to wait until the basement is finished.
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O.k. good news. I'd say -12 to 0 is what I like the Sony STR DA3000ES at when I'm the only one home. This just seemed strange to me. Because I assume if I go in the + range then I'm clipping and I've read you shouldn't send clipped audio to speakers because it isn't good for them.
I'm really enjoying the B & W's. They seem to image very well and give a good sense of depth perception. Sometimes I wonder if this stuff is just in my head but in a lot of the CDs I've been listening to I sense some instruments as being closer than others.
They seem a little thin in the bass but I have some crappy placement right now because I'm remodeling my basement. The right speaker sets in front of an open alcove. If stand behind that speaker the bass sounds greatl, so I need to get it in front of wall but it will have to wait until the basement is finished.
acoustic treatment will make your speakers sound 100% different(and maybe you will dislike them afterwards!). check out www.realtraps.com , http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html, and http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php
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you can turn it up beyond 0db and into the + numbers. its not like a recorders db meeter.
nothing wrong w/listening at +4 or +6db.
that is pretty damn loud too.
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you can turn it up beyond 0db and into the + numbers. its not like a recorders db meeter.
nothing wrong w/listening at +4 or +6db.
that is pretty damn loud too.
O db is my preferred listening level the Unit seems to be doing exaclty what it's supossed to. I'm not sure what they're doing for volume but I'm guessing at 0dB it's the least processed. I use the +dB Range for recordings that are just too small otherwise but it begins to sound "strained" (slight edge) to my ears. When I do go over I find that +6dB sounds the best.
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that was my same feel w/my 3000es. 0db for "reference" +4 or +6 for rockin' the house.
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if anyone else is looking for some B&W speakers, and wants a great deal on them, pm me since a friend of mine works in the a/v industry and can get great deals on them, and he happens to be a taper and all around great guy as well, I can hook you up with him, I'm getting my new speakers very soon and am getting them through him as well
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Wow, you guys listen at pretty high levels. I run mty 3000es between -40 and -20 (depending on source), and in my room, -20 is LOUD. If I get up to -10, I am blown out of the room. If I turn in up to 0db, my brain pops :spin: That is really loud. I am thinking that my hearing is pretty sensitive - I usually wear earplugs in really loud environments (shows, airplanes, etc.) - really loud seems to hurt my ears....
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I'm not running the most efficient speakers nor any powered subwoofer. So to get any type of visceral experience from the setup, I've got to crank it.
Fortunately for me 480's->WOade is clean, open, and highendnastiness free enough to really do that for an extended period of time. ;)
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I have no sub either but my speakers (klipsch KLF-10) are pretty efficient (98db @ 1 watt/1 meter, 8 ohms) so that may be it.
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Wow, you guys listen at pretty high levels. I run mty 3000es between -40 and -20 (depending on source), and in my room, -20 is LOUD. If I get up to -10, I am blown out of the room. If I turn in up to 0db, my brain pops :spin: That is really loud. I am thinking that my hearing is pretty sensitive - I usually wear earplugs in really loud environments (shows, airplanes, etc.) - really loud seems to hurt my ears....
I was thinking the same thing Kyle. -10 is pretty freaking loud for me (klf20) I guess speakers really make a difference.
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shit yea. my VR4s are 90db per 1w/1m
98db is really efficient, you can drive those w/anything.
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Wow, you guys listen at pretty high levels. I run mty 3000es between -40 and -20 (depending on source), and in my room, -20 is LOUD. If I get up to -10, I am blown out of the room. If I turn in up to 0db, my brain pops :spin: That is really loud. I am thinking that my hearing is pretty sensitive - I usually wear earplugs in really loud environments (shows, airplanes, etc.) - really loud seems to hurt my ears....
I was thinking the same thing Kyle. -10 is pretty freaking loud for me (klf20) I guess speakers really make a difference.
gotta get me a pair of 20s. mmmmm...... dreamy......
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I have some older Heresy IIs and they're really efficient too. Just wish they had more low end. :-\