Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: ghellquist on August 16, 2006, 05:42:38 PM
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Hey, a thought struck me. I have been thinking that the stuff tapers do inherently must sound bad. I mean, down at the lawn among noisy people, taping stuff going out of those stinking PA stacks, how can it ever be any good? I guess I am wrong, but need a bit of help. Can you point me to an mp3 (or whatever) taper stuff that you think sounds really good that I can download and use to change my opinion?
Gunnar
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Good luck finding a good one, man....audience tapes suck!!!j
edit- That was sarcastic as hell...
It is true that audience recordings can pick up more ambient noise than what you want (talking, yelling, whatever), but given the right placement (and conditions, of course) you can produce some hair raising results.
There is a plethora of live recordings at www.archive.org under the Live Music Archive. There are mp3's as well as higher resolution recordings. If the information is given for the performance, you will possibly see any(or more) of the following: source/mics/preamp/AD/recorder/mic configuration and placement.
Some recordings make you want to leave the room. Some keep you from leaving.
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I have been thinking that the stuff tapers do inherently must sound bad.
Can you point me to an mp3 (or whatever) taper stuff that you think sounds really good that I can download and use to change my opinion?
Gunnar
ISO low-bit lossy compressed version of a bad recording? ???
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I have plenty of recordings that don't suck, IMO. They won't hold a candle to Moke's recordings since they're pumped through PAs in bar-ish venues, but I still think they turned out well, considering. Whether they sound uber-heady or not, I can't say objectively (maybe I've just trained myself to believe they sound good). What I can say is that they reasonably well captured the sound as I heard it that night. Though some are better than others, here's a sampling of my recordings with which I'm pleased:
on-stage
http://www.archive.org/details/gorangroup2005-09-09.mk21.v3.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/gorangroup2005-09-09.flac24
nearly stage-lip in very small indoor venue
http://www.archive.org/details/watt2003-05-14.flac16
audience outdoors from a fair distance
http://www.archive.org/details/bfft2002-08-06.shnf
Smedium sized venue, loudish crowd (but in this case lends to the ambience, IMO)
http://www.archive.org/details/ymsb2004-02-21.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/donna2002-11-06.flac16
Smedium venue, polite crowd
http://www.archive.org/details/efo2004-01-09.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/jritter2004-03-25.flac16
Other
http://www.archive.org/details/mono2006-06-10.mk41-c414.flac16
And I've attached an MP3 of perhaps my finest recording to date - big thanks to the AKUS sound engineer, it's the best I've heard the sound at RG in 4 years.
I also have a handful of a cappella recordings somewhere, but need to dig 'em up.
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I also have a handful of a cappella recordings somewhere, but need to dig 'em up.
What did you tape a cappella? Was it a group, choir, or solo?
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I'll bite!
find, "Doesn't Suck", here: http://homepage.mac.com/jmfrench/Moke_Music_Sampler/FileSharing24.html
This is 2 ambient mics, ORTF stereo.
Really nice Mike! How close were the mics?
I'd say that "Doesn't Suck Big Time"
Kudo's,
-Lee
(Checking out Brian's stuff next..)
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(Checking out Brian's stuff next..)
Mine won't hold a candle to Moke's. And some are better than others, but I don't think any of the "suck", so to speak (purely subjectively, of course).
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Re: What does a good tape sound like?
::tapping my tape collection with a drumstick:: hmm.. id say it sounds like a metallic squink.
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heres my 'not shitty' tape, this tape sounds spectacular IMO ;D
http://www.archive.org/details/moe2006-06-11.481.flac16
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What does a good tape sound like? Well to some, and overdubbed studio creation. To tapers(or at least me), an accurate representation of a performance through the use of auditory stimulus. In other words, I want to be transported back to the performance by relistening to the capture. Sometimes the results are better than I remember, other times worse. But the quest is to capture something that is fleeting. Now back to your original question, what does a good tape sound like. Well been digging on two shows this week in my car. One is GD 10/17/82 FOB tape and the other is my 4 mic mix from WSP in Memphis on 7/29. Both sound fantastic(to my ears).
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another crazy thread
Gunnar this is all very relative and subjective..for me personally a good tape has nice performance, great sound and great engaging crowd with funny moments between songs.
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...an accurate representation of a performance through the use of auditory stimulus. In other words, I want to be transported back to the performance by relistening to the capture. Sometimes the results are better than I remember, other times worse. But the quest is to capture something that is fleeting.
QFT.
I want my tapes to sound exactly like it did when I was standing there. Part of my taping is to capture the moment, in addition to the music.
A clean studio version of a song might be great, but to hear the same song live and then hear the crowd go crazy after a solo can really get the hairs on your neck standing!
Terry
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Ask 100 different people and you will get 100 different answers.
This is not in reference to my AKGs at all... But with my Sonic Studios gear I often set up to stealth and the recording I come out with sounds *much* better than I remember the show sounding. Recentlly I've been finding my *spot* and recording with earplugs in and going home to listen to the recorded show. I'd say at least 80% of the time the recordinds sound better htan I rememer the show itsellf.
Stay Kind,
Dana
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I often set up to stealth and the recording I come out with sounds *much* better than I remember the show sounding
I agree completely...especially the banter by the band. I can NEVER understand what bands are saying between songs, go home and listen to my recording and can hear every word clear as can be.
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I have plenty of recordings that don't suck, IMO. They won't hold a candle to Moke's recordings since they're pumped through PAs in bar-ish venues, but I still think they turned out well, considering. Whether they sound uber-heady or not, I can't say objectively (maybe I've just trained myself to believe they sound good). What I can say is that they reasonably well captured the sound as I heard it that night. Though some are better than others, here's a sampling of my recordings with which I'm pleased:
on-stage
http://www.archive.org/details/gorangroup2005-09-09.mk21.v3.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/gorangroup2005-09-09.flac24
nearly stage-lip in very small indoor venue
http://www.archive.org/details/watt2003-05-14.flac16
audience outdoors from a fair distance
http://www.archive.org/details/bfft2002-08-06.shnf
Smedium sized venue, loudish crowd (but in this case lends to the ambience, IMO)
http://www.archive.org/details/ymsb2004-02-21.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/donna2002-11-06.flac16
Smedium venue, polite crowd
http://www.archive.org/details/efo2004-01-09.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/jritter2004-03-25.flac16
Other
http://www.archive.org/details/mono2006-06-10.mk41-c414.flac16
And I've attached an MP3 of perhaps my finest recording to date - big thanks to the AKUS sound engineer, it's the best I've heard the sound at RG in 4 years.
I also have a handful of a cappella recordings somewhere, but need to dig 'em up.
Yep, that AK recording is one of the best I've heard.
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What did you tape a cappella? Was it a group, choir, or solo?
Group my father runs and in which my father, brother, and sister (and previously uncle) sing: Coriolis (http://www.skalinder.net/coriolis/).
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I have great recordings of mediocre shows that I hardly ever listen to and mediocre recordings of great shows I listen to religiously.... frustrating sometimes... ???
What is a great recording? What is the meaing if life? :-\
When I started I loved my giant squids > minidisc sound for what it was.... then my ADK > V3 > D8... have great stuff there too.... now its borrowed Schopes stealth, my u89's all 24 bits.
They are all good to someone - you may love your recording of your favorite band and it may sound like crap to someone else, does it really matter in the end?
This is a hobby/obsession that generates different results from different equipment in different environments every day. We are lucky that so much is recorded, there is a much better chance of catching the gems that pop up.
I for one know that I am thankful that I can track down my favorite bands recorded in different locations and still be surprised by what I hear - good and bad...
Relax and Enjoy - everyone is out there doing the best they can with what they have.
CQBert
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I have great recordings of mediocre shows that I hardly ever listen to and mediocre recordings of great shows I listen to religiously.... frustrating sometimes... ???
What is a great recording? What is the meaing if life? :-\
When I started I loved my giant squids > minidisc sound for what it was.... then my ADK > V3 > D8... have great stuff there too.... now its borrowed Schopes stealth, my u89's all 24 bits.
They are all good to someone - you may love your recording of your favorite band and it may sound like crap to someone else, does it really matter in the end?
This is a hobby/obsession that generates different results from different equipment in different environments every day. We are lucky that so much is recorded, there is a much better chance of catching the gems that pop up.
I for one know that I am thankful that I can track down my favorite bands recorded in different locations and still be surprised by what I hear - good and bad...
Relax and Enjoy - everyone is out there doing the best they can with what they have.
CQBert
righto.. its all about the gems..
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What did you tape a cappella? Was it a group, choir, or solo?
Group my father runs and in which my father, brother, and sister (and previously uncle) sing: Coriolis (http://www.skalinder.net/coriolis/).
Thanks for the link. That looks really interesting.
How do you approach those recordings...onstage, stagelip....?
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a "good tape" will sound just like it did live
if you can capture the sound on tape as it sounded live you will have a good tape, unless it sounded like crap live :P
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Check out Moke's recordings, VA_Taper (search for chris berryman at archive.org) skalinder, many others.
Hey, a thought struck me. I have been thinking that the stuff tapers do inherently must sound bad. I mean, down at the lawn among noisy people, taping stuff going out of those stinking PA stacks, how can it ever be any good? I guess I am wrong, but need a bit of help. Can you point me to an mp3 (or whatever) taper stuff that you think sounds really good that I can download and use to change my opinion?
Gunnar
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http://db.etree.org/shninfo_detail.php?shnid=960
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http://www.archive.org/details/glen2005-08-30.dsd.flac
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I hope it sticks around too. The fact that the converter companies and DAW folks are creating DSD/DXD compatible gear is encouraging. I am not so hopeful about SACD, but the DSD/DXD medium will be around for a long time, I feel. DSD/DXD is especially great for acoustic music, as it reveals every little nuance. High Res PCM is great too. As long as the audiophile folks keep demand up... ;D
DSD is an amazing format. :keeps fingers crossed for a Tascam portable:
The first song that I posted "doesn't suck", was mastered in DSD. And the version heard here was an analog transfer, DSD->Analog out->722@2496->resample->mp3
http://www.archive.org/details/glen2005-08-30.dsd.flac
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http://db.etree.org/shninfo_detail.php?shnid=960
...probably one of my favourite tapes ever
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http://www.archive.org/details/glenphillips2006-06-29.mbho.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/glenphillips2006-06-29.mbho.flac16)
http://www.archive.org/details/sts9-2006-04-29.MBHO.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/sts9-2006-04-29.MBHO.flac16)
Here are two of my gems.
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I agree completely...especially the banter by the band. I can NEVER understand what bands are saying between songs, go home and listen to my recording and can hear every word clear as can be.
Use earplugs.
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I hope it sticks around too. The fact that the converter companies and DAW folks are creating DSD/DXD compatible gear is encouraging. I am not so hopeful about SACD, but the DSD/DXD medium will be around for a long time, I feel. DSD/DXD is especially great for acoustic music, as it reveals every little nuance. High Res PCM is great too. As long as the audiophile folks keep demand up... ;D
The HUGE difference there is that PCM is a completely open format. I can build my own PCM playback gear if it comes to that (both because it is simple and because I won't get sued).
DSD/SACD are closed and proprietary. Even if you could figure it out, they'd sue you. For that reason I will never use it. No way am I putting my recordings into someone else's closed format.
In 50 years, PCM will still be easily decoded. But DSD/SACD?
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Yep, everything is backed up to PCM. Youve decided that it is not worth it to you to have DSD compatibility. Many echo that feeling. But for me, anything I can do to squeeze one more drop of better sound out of my recordings is worth it to me. 1200 bucks for a machine with good converters seemed like a no brainer.
Not to mention that when I start my own business, DSD/DXD compatibility is good to have. A lot of Classical Titles go to DSD/DXD/SACD/HDCD
I hope it sticks around too. The fact that the converter companies and DAW folks are creating DSD/DXD compatible gear is encouraging. I am not so hopeful about SACD, but the DSD/DXD medium will be around for a long time, I feel. DSD/DXD is especially great for acoustic music, as it reveals every little nuance. High Res PCM is great too. As long as the audiophile folks keep demand up... ;D
The HUGE difference there is that PCM is a completely open format. I can build my own PCM playback gear if it comes to that (both because it is simple and because I won't get sued).
DSD/SACD are closed and proprietary. Even if you could figure it out, they'd sue you. For that reason I will never use it. No way am I putting my recordings into someone else's closed format.
In 50 years, PCM will still be easily decoded. But DSD/SACD?
thats why we backup to 2496pcm
2.82mhz@1bit->analog->2496pcm
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I think My recent Gregg & Warren From red Rocks last weekend Turned out pretty well .
Taped from about 60' from the stage DFC front row in the section
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=500010
Dont judge the book by its cover.