Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: mic_s on August 27, 2006, 04:52:21 PM
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So come September 12th, i want to try recording a show (Zyklon) off of the soundboard (Mean Fiddler, London). I've never tried to record off the board, so have a few questions... how do i get the sound guys to allow me to plug my jb3 into the board? and (even stupider question) is it nescessary to set any sound levels with an off-the-board recording?
If anyone can answer my n00bish questions, i would be grateful! Thanks! :)
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how do i get the sound guys to allow me to plug my jb3 into the board?
ask them
promise them a copy of the show
plug in your jb3 and try to stay out of the way of the board
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I don't mean to tell you stuff that you already know but you'll of course need permission from the band and then you'll also need to get it cleared by the house foh. I guess in a rare case you could have band permission but still be denied by the venue or it might be cool with the house guy and not cool with the band...either way you will need both parties on your side. it's best to get a sbd patch cleared with the band as far out from the show as possible and then hope the venue won't hassle you about it the night of...in that case it helps to know someone in or with the band to possibly bail you out and let the venue know it's ok.
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don't forget proper cables. You should have the ability to take either rca, 1/4" or xlr into the 1/8" stereo jack of your jb3. Easiest way is to get a cable with 1/8" stereo on one end and any pair of the other 3 on the other end, then get adapters to make sure you can take all 3. usually that is rca > 1/8" + (f) rca > (M) 1/4" adaptor + (F) 1/4" > (F) xlr adaptor.
Good Luck!
Matt
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Guess this is going to be harder than it initially seems! mmmatt, could you explain in easier language what those cables are? I'm still fairly new to taping shows, and don't understand rca, clr, and those letters in brackets! :-[ :)
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don't forget to buy the mix engineer a beer or three.
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Guess this is going to be harder than it initially seems! mmmatt, could you explain in easier language what those cables are? I'm still fairly new to taping shows, and don't understand rca, clr, and those letters in brackets! :-[ :)
Don't worry. This is not rocket science!
pictures say 1000 words!!!
the (M) and (F) are male and femaile. The male ones have a dick ;D
1/8" stereo(M) >l/r rca (M) http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102974&cp=&origkw=1%2F8%22+to+rca&kw=1%2F8+to+rca&parentPage=search
rca(F) > 1/4"(M) (you need two of these. this listing is for a 2 pack) http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062455&cp=&origkw=rca+to+1%2F4%22&kw=rca+to+1%2F4&parentPage=search
1/4"(F) > xlr(F) (you need two of these also) http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=AdptFx-Qsj&preadd=action
the last adaper is actually a stereo (ballanced) adapter but you can use mono (unballanced) for this no problem. The mono version just didn't have a picture. You can also use this one that goes from rca > xlr http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=AdptFx-Rf&preadd=action with the first one I listed you would use the rca > 1/4" adapter in conjunction with it. The rca > xlr is less common and you may not be able to find it locally.
Matt
edited for a gender switch on the rca > 1/4"
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Last word if'n youve never pulled a soundboard... It may not sound good. Rarely do you get a good mix just pulling down the board. That mix is made so the house sounds right... things on stage that are loud on their own may not be in the mix... MMMmatt (my matrix hero) always runs the soundboard and mics on stage to capture what might be missing from the house sound.
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mmmatt is dead on as usual but check out this thread in the cables forum as well: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=14253.0
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That is #1 in my books :)
don't forget to buy the mix engineer a beer or three.
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Last word if'n youve never pulled a soundboard... It may not sound good. Rarely do you get a good mix just pulling down the board. That mix is made so the house sounds right... things on stage that are loud on their own may not be in the mix... MMMmatt (my matrix hero) always runs the soundboard and mics on stage to capture what might be missing from the house sound.
Thanks for the props! I didn't quite want to go there... figured he should start out with just a patch. Mic-s, bdasilva's comments are true though. Don't expect to much from just a sbd patch. Do it, get used to plugging in and actually recording something, then come back and see us! You will most likely find that even though you get a lot of screaming and such as well as a very airy sound, that using a couple of mics alone without the sbd is better than just the board. THEN... after you get used to running mics at a show you can move into the matrix thing where you are mixing a board feed and mics together to get a full boddied pro-ish sounding mix. Definately start with just the patch though. I don't know what the "taper scene" is in London, but if there are other tapers at shows that are running mics a logical step between patching the board and buying your own mics and preamp, is to patch into someone elses preamp and mics. This is much the same as patching the board with a couple different connectors that you may need and is a good way for you to start to get a feel for what types of mics/pre's suite your ears and budget.
mmmatt is dead on as usual but check out this thread in the cables forum as well: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=14253.0
hmmm... somebody must have of asked this question before! ;D I always forget about our wonderful archive of newbie info.
Matt
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Thanks alot for all the help! :D The taper scene in London.... well there's only, what, four people here who record shows i think, at least for the music i record anyway. :P And one of them has a market stall where he sells his video recordings. >:(
As for mic's... i've run microphones at shows before, but at 17 years old my equipment is nowhere near professional and the sound is good but never perfect!
I think the best way for me to start out would be to soundboard local shows i guess! :P :)
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Just a recap, you'll probably need the band, the venue, and the engineer to all be cool with it cause any one of them can deny you at their whim, so kissing ass is important all the way around REGARDLESS whether the band is supposedly cool with SBD patches.
Next, make sure you can handle 2x1/4", 2xRCA, and 2xXLR outputs from the SBD because you might see any one of those connectors.
Also, like said above, don't expect the holy grail from the SBD, it might sound too clean and way out of balance depending on the music and venue. Remember, they are mixing to make the room sound good, not the board outs.
And don't forget to TURN OFF phantom power on your inputs (if you have that) cause you never know what might happen at the SBD if you send it power.
Lastly, there's been some talk above about plugging yourself in (with permission), but take it from me, whether you are a newb or not, I think's it's always best TO NEVER EVER TOUCH ANY SHIT THAT ISN'T YOURS at the venue. The minute you touch it and something goes wrong, whether it was your fault or not, it's going to get blamed on you so don't even go there. Ask permission and LET THEM plug you in, and LET THEM unplug you at the end, and LET THEM change the levels they are sending you. Everyone will be happier with that protocol (of course there are some exceptions to this rule, but I might argue they are the exception, not the rule, especially for a newb).
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T+ Great advice.
Just a recap, you'll probably need the band, the venue, and the engineer to all be cool with it cause any one of them can deny you at their whim, so kissing ass is important all the way around REGARDLESS whether the band is supposedly cool with SBD patches.
Next, make sure you can handle 2x1/4", 2xRCA, and 2xXLR outputs from the SBD because you might see any one of those connectors.
Also, like said above, don't expect the holy grail from the SBD, it might sound too clean and way out of balance depending on the music and venue. Remember, they are mixing to make the room sound good, not the board outs.
And don't forget to TURN OFF phantom power on your inputs (if you have that) cause you never know what might happen at the SBD if you send it power.
Lastly, there's been some talk above about plugging yourself in (with permission), but take it from me, whether you are a newb or not, I think's it's always best TO NEVER EVER TOUCH ANY SHIT THAT ISN'T YOURS at the venue. The minute you touch it and something goes wrong, whether it was your fault or not, it's going to get blamed on you so don't even go there. Ask permission and LET THEM plug you in, and LET THEM unplug you at the end, and LET THEM change the levels they are sending you. Everyone will be happier with that protocol (of course there are some exceptions to this rule, but I might argue they are the exception, not the rule, especially for a newb).
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YES! Great words Taint. The respect issue is key. Also don't feel like you have to act like you know everything when dealing with the engineer. In most cases he will know if you're new to all this so just tell him and ask him for his advice on things when you need it. Don't bug him when he is busy, but ask respectfully. Most people like to flex their knowlege.
Matt
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YES! Great words Taint. The respect issue is key. Also don't feel like you have to act like you know everything when dealing with the engineer. In most cases he will know if you're new to all this so just tell him and ask him for his advice on things when you need it. Don't bug him when he is busy, but ask respectfully. Most people like to flex their knowlege.
Matt
I'm going to pile on that too, you gave me that same advice when I was getting started, and it was good advice. Chances are (although not always, LOL), the engineer is going to more than you ever will (maybe a stretch, but you get my point), so don't even try to impress them with your taper know-how. Just be professional, humble, respectful, and stay the hell out of their way, and you might, just might get a patch. ;)
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Thanks loads for all the advice here! :) I can't wait to try it out either..