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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: pearly on September 08, 2006, 04:42:17 PM

Title: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: pearly on September 08, 2006, 04:42:17 PM

I've been using Sonic Studios DSM-6S/L for my Sony DSM-M1 MOD2 recorder for over a year now.  But I have a mixed bag of good and bad recordings.  I'm kind of tired of the heavy "distorted" bass it picks up.  Can it not handle it?

I've read about DPA 4090 series mics.  Suppose to be much better?  Are they dual stereo mics?

My question is, is DPA 4090 series still the best stealth mics out there.  If so, where can I pick one up?


Thanks~

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: RebelRebel on September 08, 2006, 04:55:53 PM

the DPA 4090 series is basically a 4060/4061 microphone in a "normal sized" microphone body. It is not as stealthable as its 4060/4061 counterparts..the 4060/4061 is basically the size of a pencil eraser. The 4090s have lower self noise .The 4061 is optimized for wearing on the body, or placed on top of instruments, the 4090 series is optimized for natural sound recording. The 4090 is ruler flat up onto 20kHz with a little + 0.5 dB point, the 4060 has quite a peak at 15 kHz from + 3 dB which can be even made higher by using special grid.The 4090s will also take power from anywhere from 5v to 50v...

what you were thinking of is the 4060/4061,NOT the 4090/91

Quote

"are they dual stereo mics?"

no, they are singular mono mics...you buy two of them and youll have a stereo pair.

Quote

are they the best out there, etc

you wont find an answer to that question because it has no answer..it is a matter of taste. some would say the schoeps are better, others like the DPAs..

you can get them from Oade, Cascade, SS, ebay....

Quote from: pearly on September 08, 2006, 04:42:17 PM

I've been using Sonic Studios DSM-6S/L for my Sony DSM-M1 MOD2 recorder for over a year now.  But I have a mixed bag of good and bad recordings.  I'm kind of tired of the heavy "distorted" bass it picks up.  Can it not handle it?

I've read about DPA 4090 series mics.  Suppose to be much better?  Are they dual stereo mics?

My question is, is DPA 4090 series still the best stealth mics out there.  If so, where can I pick one up?


Thanks~

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: RebelRebel on September 08, 2006, 04:58:19 PM

(http://www.dv247.com/assets/products/20919_l.jpg)   DPA 4060
(http://img.hi-fi.ru/news/2005-12/dpa_4090.jpg) DPA 4090

I personally dont like the self noise on them for quiet things..but for loud music...they are great.

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: pearly on September 08, 2006, 04:59:53 PM

Thanks for your response.  Yes, I meant the 4060 series.  Oops.  Can I run two of these and somehow combine them into a single mini-jack output for the DAT's mic input?

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: RebelRebel on September 08, 2006, 05:01:43 PM

Quote from: pearly on September 08, 2006, 04:59:53 PM

Thanks for your response.  Yes, I meant the 4060 series.  Oops.  Can I run two of these and somehow combine them into a single mini-jack output for the DAT's mic input?

Core Sounds will do that for you.

The best customer service in the business :P (http://www.core-sound.com/default.php)

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: RebelRebel on September 08, 2006, 05:33:36 PM

Quote from: Moke on September 08, 2006, 05:31:55 PM

I've never considered self-noise an issue with these mics, including recitals.

maybe it was the 4061s? the 4060s are supposed to be quieter I believe.

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: macdaddy on September 08, 2006, 06:28:52 PM

Quote from: Teddy on September 08, 2006, 05:33:36 PM

Quote from: Moke on September 08, 2006, 05:31:55 PM

I've never considered self-noise an issue with these mics, including recitals.

maybe it was the 4061s? the 4060s are supposed to be quieter I believe.

yep, but i have had some noise issues, only twice, and both times with a philharmonic...

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: RebelRebel on September 08, 2006, 06:31:04 PM

well, your new mic is quiet..VERY quiet.

(should be there today or tommorow!)

Quote from: macdaddy on September 08, 2006, 06:28:52 PM

Quote from: Teddy on September 08, 2006, 05:33:36 PM

Quote from: Moke on September 08, 2006, 05:31:55 PM

I've never considered self-noise an issue with these mics, including recitals.

maybe it was the 4061s? the 4060s are supposed to be quieter I believe.

yep, but i have had some noise issues, only twice, and both times with a philharmonic...

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: macdaddy on September 08, 2006, 06:34:25 PM

wahoo!

it just wont be as easy to sneak into the lower levels of the walt disney concert hall 8) (man, does that place sound nice!!!)

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: RebelRebel on September 08, 2006, 06:56:39 PM

Quote from: macdaddy on September 08, 2006, 06:34:25 PM

wahoo!

it just wont be as easy to sneak into the lower levels of the walt disney concert hall 8) (man, does that place sound nice!!!)

ive heard!

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: macdaddy on September 08, 2006, 09:27:53 PM

remember, i dont have a pre, i run cs batt box > mSBM1 (line in) > WAV

so i was running the sbm1 wide open, and still had to boost the levels in post, alot - like over 10db. and when i did that, i heard a hum, and i am pretty sure that hum was not present in the p.a. (this was at the hollywood bowl, with the la phil - actually, one of these was the time you were invited to come along). i have been meaning to have you come along and run your 4060 > preamp combo and we could compare it to my 4060 > sbm1 setup, and see how you do with levels and such. it would be truly head to head, 'cos we would be sitting right next to eachother running hrtf rigs... maybe next season, if you're up for it (next week is the last week, and i sold the tix, 'cos we couldnt attend)

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: pearly on September 08, 2006, 09:40:50 PM

perhaps i can join you guys on a stealth recording shoot-out?  i live in la too.

but back to the topic, is the core-sound package a good deal?  the setup i have is great because all i need to carry is my dat and mics.

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: macdaddy on September 08, 2006, 10:09:59 PM

Quote from: Moke on September 08, 2006, 10:03:42 PM

Sonic Studios builds an HPF box for those mics. That would help considerably.

are you replying to me..?

does the ss batt box have more gain than the cs box..?

____

i use the core-sound heb setup, and have for years. if it is what you are looking for, i highly recommend it.

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: macdaddy on September 09, 2006, 05:56:44 AM

could be, moke. i guess the only way to find out will be to try the scene out head to head...

i always thought that it could be the sbm1, 'cos you record stufff with a low noise floor, and lots of gaini, and you dont have the hum issue...

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: it-goes-to-eleven on September 09, 2006, 08:15:35 AM

I don't think the 'hum' is from the 406x's.   Teddy is correct that the noise specs of the 4061 are inferior to the 4011 (and I assume other high quality SD mics)... They're still very quiet.

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: RebelRebel on September 09, 2006, 10:52:49 AM

Quote from: Freelunch on September 09, 2006, 08:15:35 AM

I don't think the 'hum' is from the 406x's.   Teddy is correct that the noise specs of the 4061 are inferior to the 4011 (and I assume other high quality SD mics)... They're still very quiet.

It is a problem because of the size of the capsule. Typically, the smaller the capsule, the greater the self noise. SDC are more detailed and true to the source typically, but the tradeoff is higher noise spec..

"hum" definitely doesnt sound like the 406XX, what im talking about is a higher noise floor. with the 4061s, It was easily heard. (and measured)

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: twoheadedboy on September 10, 2006, 02:55:00 AM

Yeah, I can't believe Leonard "let you out the door" without a battery box. Gotta have one for any sort of amplified music, true of any mics of this sort. My suggestion would be PA-6LC3 (not the B version unless you really need a super-high level of bass roll-off). I run Sonics myself and the difference in cost between them and the mics 2x the cost are not worth it to me, YMMV.

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: Gutbucket on September 11, 2006, 11:13:30 AM

Keep in mind the signifigant difference in sensitivity between the DPA 4060's (20mV/Pa) & the 4061's (6mV/Pa) and the smaller but still signifigant difference in self noise & S/N.  FWIW, I haven't found the 4060's to be overly noisy even when recording quiet ambient stuff like humming birds and creeks in the mountains & Indian classical flute w/ tablas this last weekend...   Recorded nicely 8 rows back - quiet show, respectful audience, no low level noise issues.  I will say I do notice the frequency hump though it's not objectionable, haven't tried them without the short boost grids other than at home around the yard.  Sounded flatter in the 10 khz region as expected, but also less extended above that so I left the short grids on for the Indian music.

From the DPA site:

4060
Equivalent noise level A-weighted: Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 26 dB(A))
Dynamic Range: Typ. 100 dB
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL): 71 dB(A)
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB: 20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa

4061
Equivalent noise level A-weighted: Typ. 26 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 28 dB(A))
Dynamic Range: Typ. 97 dB
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL): 68 dB(A)
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB: 6 mV/Pa; -44.5 dB re. 1 V/Pa

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: RebelRebel on September 11, 2006, 11:30:46 AM

if you want absolute flatness....take the covering off the diaphragm completely.

Quote from: Gutbucket on September 11, 2006, 11:13:30 AM

Keep in mind the signifigant difference in sensitivity between the DPA 4060's (20mV/Pa) & the 4061's (6mV/Pa) and the smaller but still signifigant difference in self noise & S/N.  FWIW, I haven't found the 4060's to be overly noisy even when recording quiet ambient stuff like humming birds and creeks in the mountains & Indian classical flute w/ tablas this last weekend...   Recorded nicely 8 rows back - quiet show, respectful audience, no low level noise issues.  I will say I do notice the frequency hump though it's not objectionable, haven't tried them without the short boost grids other than at home around the yard.  Sounded flatter in the 10 khz region as expected, but also less extended above that so I left the short grids on for the Indian music.

From the DPA site:

4060
Equivalent noise level A-weighted: Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 26 dB(A))
Dynamic Range: Typ. 100 dB
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL): 71 dB(A)
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB: 20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa

4061
Equivalent noise level A-weighted: Typ. 26 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 28 dB(A))
Dynamic Range: Typ. 97 dB
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL): 68 dB(A)
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB: 6 mV/Pa; -44.5 dB re. 1 V/Pa

Title: Re: DPA 4090/4091 still the best stealth mics out there?
Post by: Gutbucket on September 11, 2006, 12:37:04 PM

Quote from: Teddy on September 11, 2006, 11:30:46 AM

if you want absolute flatness....take the covering off the diaphragm completely.

If you mean completely remove the grids (short & long), that's what I did around the yard and infront of the stereo.  Seems to mostly expose the capsule but some if it is still beneath the lip of the housing.  You'd have to modify the mic to expose it any more than that.  I was considering using the mics 'gridless' in the DPA boundry mounts, as those mounts also contribute to a bump in the HF response around the same freq.