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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: panther65 on September 25, 2006, 10:18:17 PM
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I've been listening to mic samples from arhive.org for quite a few days now, and have come to the conclusion that the Schoeps mics are priced high for a reason-they are the best=in my opinion. I have a Tascam HD-P2 with phantom power-what would be the most stealty schoeps setup for this deck ie active cables etc. Doug Oade who I bought the deck from and is extremely helpful, suggested the ST-100 kit which has the limitation of only one capsule. Any suggestions would be welcome.
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Doug makes a good recommendation with the ST-100 kit. It's a matched pair of CCM4s (cardioids), fixed pattern. If you want the ability to change patterns with different caps, you'll have to add either <1> the bulk of mic bodies, or <2> an equivalent piece of gear fulfilling the same function, like a Sonosax SX-M2/LS2. 'Course, if you like the CCMx but want other patterns, you could always just add another pair of CCMx with whatever pattern you want.
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You could also get the CCM5, which is both card and omni, or a MK6 capsule which is Card omni and figure 8 in the same cap.
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Doug makes a good recommendation with the ST-100 kit. It's a matched pair of CCM4s (cardioids), fixed pattern. If you want the ability to change patterns with different caps, you'll have to add either <1> the bulk of mic bodies, or <2> an equivalent piece of gear fulfilling the same function, like a Sonosax SX-M2/LS2. 'Course, if you like the CCMx but want other patterns, you could always just add another pair of CCMx with whatever pattern you want.
So if you use the CCM4s with the cardiods you don't need a Sono/Lemosax?
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So if you use the CCM4s with the cardiods you don't need a Sono/Lemosax?
The CCMx do not require mic bodies, and plug directly into a preamp/phantom power source - just like the DPA 402x compact cardioid series. The MKx requires a Sonosax SX-M2/LS2 (aka Lemosax) or NBox if one wants to run them without the CMC mic bodies.
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to be the most versitile, i would get the KC5's (actives) and a pair of the CMC6's (mic bodies)
that way you can change your mic capsules for your application (if it's stealth, then you probably want the hypers (mk41))
then get a pair of interconnects, from the bodies to the deck, so that the fingerprint of the gear is as small as possible. i too have the hdp2 and i cringe when i see the bodies coming straight out the the deck, plus it's over 12" at that point.
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If my math is right, the CCM US stereo kit w/ the lemos will save you about $340 over a 64 stereo kit w/ an ortf bar and a pair of actives. Or $550 if you were to go w/ the hardwired ccms (the lemos are $105 each mic). That's certainly some $$$ but when you're talking 3grand + it's not the only thing I'd base my decision on.
Here's my pro/con list
CCM
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Pros
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- by far the most stealth schoeps setup w/ your current pre...while there are Sax options, etc that are a similar profile w/ the MKx, they are not the same as running a cmc6 whereas the ccm is (or at least that's the claim).
- somewhat cheaper
Cons
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- limited to one polar pattern
- reduced resale value (my opinion, but the polar pattern limitation is a detractor for many people)
- hard to find used
CMC/MK
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Pros
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- ability to switch caps
- fairly easy to find used at better prices
Cons
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- more $$$ to get all you need
- less stealthy even in active setup b/c of the bodies. even if you run pre>cables>cmc6 as Todd suggests it's still a lot of gear to manage compared to the ccms if you have it stuffed down your pants
If you can live w/ cards only and being super stealth is the *critical* decision criteria, the ccms are the way to go. If you can sacrafice some stealth, then I'd go w/ the cmc/mk active setup b/c you can likely find a set used for the same price as the ccms new and gain quite a bit of flexibility.
mitch
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Thanks very much Mitch for your detailed and thoughtful analysis of the pros and cons of the actives vs. ccm. I also would like the ability to add differently patterned capsules to the setup as I go along. Would you know where I might look for a used Schoeps rig, or do you know anyone who might have one?
How would one mount the capsules-in a hat and if so, which hat and how would one affix the capsules?
Thanks again to all of the people who have responded and to this great board!
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One more pro to the interchangable MK/KCY Active/CMC list if you lan to spend a little more dough on a lemosax, vms02ib or the AKI2/C (cable to go from binder connection to CMC): One cable running down the back of your neck all the way down the back into your bag, not two. With the CCM set up you still have two cables running down the back of your neck in to your waist pack, which is a pain the the neck, IMHO.
If you have the KCY 250/0 and KS5i cables, you can quite literally walk in with your mics mounted in the hat and the cable detached (I have the custom extention KS1.8i clipped near my neck all ready to make the connection once inside). Plug in by feel and not have to make a trip to the bathroom stall or do any funny business like that which may lead one to getting popped.
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Another Schoeps option that I personally have used for years use is the CMBi mic bodies with 4V capsules run XY on my chest. I slip each mic into a thin sock made of black velour, rubber band the bodies side by side and wear them in an elastic rib belt so they sit front and center on my chest at the very top of my sternum. No hat, and no need keep your head still -- which is a stealth-seeker give-away. You can feel free to move your head and look around. Your chest blocks out a lot of the crowd chatter behind you. I can wear the mics in the rib belt into the venue (some of us don't have that much room to spare in our pants for mics).
The CMBi's use a 5-pin miniature Binder connector and there is a Y cable - the KIY 250/0 I - which connects to CMBi bodies to a single stereo mini jack which I run into the mic or line in on my D100. It would be easy to adapt it to XLR or RCA ins.
My new game plan will be to use CMC64V worn on my chest in the same configuration into my SD722. If you taller guys would learn to think "outside of the hat" and try the chest rig, you'd like the results, price and verstility of interchangeable bodies, the ability to stealth with 4Vs and still have a conventional setup for open shows with no extra cost.
Prior to the Schoeps I also stealthed with AKG414s in the chest rig.
http://www.posthorn.com/S_cmbi.html (http://www.posthorn.com/S_cmbi.html)
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You might also look into the Schoeps KCY cable > VMS. That will give you the ability to switch caps, no mic bodies, and be super stealth.
http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/acc-mod-electric.html#kcy
http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/vms5u.html
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I've been listening to mic samples from arhive.org for quite a few days now, and have come to the conclusion that the Schoeps mics are priced high for a reason-they are the best
:)
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I am the excited owner of a new Schoeps mic setup. I bought used (mint)the VMS5U and the KCY250/5I active cable and new two MK4s for $2800. I dealt with Parker at SonicSense who was extemely helpful and knowledgeable. She gave me tips on stealthing-she's been taping and stealthing for 30 years. I will be running this into a Tascam HD-P2. Think I did ok-hope so. Thanks for all of your responses.
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I'm still curious to see someone legitimately stealth the HDP2, that thing is big....
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i use ccm41lg's into a pcm660 acm oade marantz , in a hat or velcroed to my lapels . the deck under my arm pit held up by the strap , sat next to the security guy watching the sound board & he never knew what was up . 660 has the phantom power & the locking 3 pin full size mic inputs so no need for any boxes between mic & deck .. mics were in black short fur dead rats & i was dressed in all black with a turtle neck & Kongol black mesh hat when the mics are in hat .. the 41 's don't pick up the local crowd noise like the mk4's do. Doug Oade said they (the 41's) were the way to on a high end stealth rig & he was VERY right . i've had people seated right in front of me who yaked all nite & i never heard them on the recording . freinds now buy the tickets to the shows i do .. agin this is I M H O
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I'm still curious to see someone legitimately stealth the HDP2, that thing is big....
I have been stealthing a full skm140 kit > ua5 > iriver w/o any trouble, and i'm about to change that stealthing w/a mini MP.
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MKx>Nbox>R9.......Pimp my rig :o ;) ;D
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I dealt with Parker at SonicSense who was extemely helpful and knowledgeable. She gave me tips on stealthing-she's been taping and stealthing for 30 years.
what?
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Good luck "stealthing" the vms 5u and hd-p2, neither of those are very small. I've owned both and no way you can crotch those, maybe one of them, but not both. The only thing stealthy about that rig is the mk4>kcy combo. Congrats though, that will be a nice low-profile rig.
trade the vms in for a Lemosax and get an M1, and that will be a little more stealthable.
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M1 ?
what the hell kind of recomendation is that?
might as well just try to carve the music into stone.
(joking...., DAT is a tad passe', no? )
Lemosax > R-09, and now you're talking
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yeah, I guess that's kinda dated at this point, but it works. Im not at all familar with the r-09. The only small 24 bit recorder i have experience with is a Micro Tracker and I'd rather have a M1 over a MT in a stealth situation.
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The only small 24 bit recorder i have experience with is a Micro Tracker and I'd rather have a M1 over a MT in a stealth situation.
me too!
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The only small 24 bit recorder i have experience with is a Micro Tracker and I'd rather have a M1 over a MT in a stealth situation.
me too!
One advantage of the MT is that you can run more conservatively at 24 bit. Worrying about levels when stealthing drives me nuts.
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The only small 24 bit recorder i have experience with is a Micro Tracker and I'd rather have a M1 over a MT in a stealth situation.
me too!
One advantage of the MT is that you can run more conservatively at 24 bit. Worrying about levels when stealthing drives me nuts.
24-bit with the MT is not so nice. The recorder starts a new file (misses a few seconds) every 2.000.000.000 bytes. So you will have a break somewhere.
I don't want breaks.
Levels are a non issue. You know your gear, right?
After a few shows you know where to set stuff.
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The only small 24 bit recorder i have experience with is a Micro Tracker and I'd rather have a M1 over a MT in a stealth situation.
me too!
One advantage of the MT is that you can run more conservatively at 24 bit. Worrying about levels when stealthing drives me nuts.
24-bit with the MT is not so nice. The recorder starts a new file (misses a few seconds) every 2.000.000.000 bytes. So you will have a break somewhere.
I don't want breaks.
Levels are a non issue. You know your gear, right?
After a few shows you know where to set stuff.
agree that the split required sucks for stealthing.
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Lemosax > R-09, and now you're talking
:happy: