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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: tscales on September 27, 2006, 04:39:07 PM

Title: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: tscales on September 27, 2006, 04:39:07 PM
Hey all,

I recently made my first laptop recording with the UA-5 and when I was gettting it setup at home, flipping the ADV switch (which I've been told switchs between 16 and 24 bit) made the device pop up on my laptop so I left it that way when I got the show.  The I fired up Wavelab and told it I was recording a 24-bit 44.1kHz show.  Everything went smoothly.

Whe I got home and opened the file, CD wave and cubase told me it was a 16bit file?  Anythoughts on what I did wrong.  I may have just setup my Wavelab record incorrectly, AND it wasn't showing me the wave form during the record, which would have been nice.

thanks ya'll.

tim
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: cgrooves on September 27, 2006, 05:00:04 PM
Using the advance setting on the UA-5 definitely puts out a 24 bit signal.  Something else must have been set wrong.
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: ShawnF on September 27, 2006, 05:15:50 PM
I'm going to bet it was some combination of not doing the following (from the manual, p. 13):
------
16. ADVANCE (mode select) switch
This switches the operating mode.
In order for the settings to take effect, you must exit all applications and turn on the
power of the UA-5 once again.
------

http://www.taperssection.com/reference/pdf/Manual_EdirolUA5.pdf
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: tscales on September 27, 2006, 05:32:19 PM
I'm going to bet it was some combination of not doing the following (from the manual, p. 13):
------
16. ADVANCE (mode select) switch
This switches the operating mode.
In order for the settings to take effect, you must exit all applications and turn on the
power of the UA-5 once again.
------

http://www.taperssection.com/reference/pdf/Manual_EdirolUA5.pdf

Okay - thanks.

I switched it at home and got everything recording.  Shut everything off, took it to the show and fired it back up - 24 bit should have take effect.  My thought is that I had wavelab setup wrong and it was doing a 24bit>16bit conversion on the fly - but thats kind of unrealistic.  What if it were 24bit out of the UA-5 and the laptop was only recording the USB signal at 16 bit - is that possible.

I don't know my wave lab setting well enough to know what I did wrong there, but I'm pretty sure I had the UA-5 set correctly and cycled the power.

thanks - i love everyone's thoughts

+Ts
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: grider on September 27, 2006, 05:39:10 PM
I tried 24 bit once Tim, and my recording was indeed 24 bit but to be honest it sounded like shit, muffled or something, it just didn't sound *right*, have not run again at that bit rate since then
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: tscales on September 27, 2006, 05:44:40 PM
I tried 24 bit once Tim, and my recording was indeed 24 bit but to be honest it sounded like shit, muffled or something, it just didn't sound *right*, have not run again at that bit rate since then

What did you run it into from the UA-5?  and it verified on yer pc as 24-bit?

+T (sorry, old habit of ending correspondancce with 'minus' T, tim)
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: dnsacks on September 27, 2006, 06:01:02 PM
Tim:

I've done verified 24/44.1 out of the ua5 via coax (into a pda).  Why don't you try recording a sample at 24/96 and see if it's recognized as 24 bit
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: grider on September 27, 2006, 06:13:20 PM
I tried 24 bit once Tim, and my recording was indeed 24 bit but to be honest it sounded like shit, muffled or something, it just didn't sound *right*, have not run again at that bit rate since then

What did you run it into from the UA-5?  and it verified on yer pc as 24-bit?

-T

481>UA5 at 24bit>TascamDAP1@48 khz, muffled, no high end, not sure what the problem was really
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: Kyle on September 27, 2006, 06:16:58 PM
I tried 24 bit once Tim, and my recording was indeed 24 bit but to be honest it sounded like shit, muffled or something, it just didn't sound *right*, have not run again at that bit rate since then

What did you run it into from the UA-5?  and it verified on yer pc as 24-bit?

-T

481>UA5 at 24bit>TascamDAP1@48 khz, muffled, no high end, not sure what the problem was really

I would imagine if you ran a 24/48 signal to a DA-P1 the P1 would lock on to the sample rate but truncate the last eight bits.
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: F.O.Bean on September 27, 2006, 06:26:34 PM
I tried 24 bit once Tim, and my recording was indeed 24 bit but to be honest it sounded like shit, muffled or something, it just didn't sound *right*, have not run again at that bit rate since then

What did you run it into from the UA-5?  and it verified on yer pc as 24-bit?

-T

481>UA5 at 24bit>TascamDAP1@48 khz, muffled, no high end, not sure what the problem was really

I would imagine if you ran a 24/48 signal to a DA-P1 the P1 would lock on to the sample rate but truncate the last eight bits.

bingo
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: grider on September 27, 2006, 06:27:12 PM
I tried 24 bit once Tim, and my recording was indeed 24 bit but to be honest it sounded like shit, muffled or something, it just didn't sound *right*, have not run again at that bit rate since then

What did you run it into from the UA-5?  and it verified on yer pc as 24-bit?

-T



481>UA5 at 24bit>TascamDAP1@48 khz, muffled, no high end, not sure what the problem was really

I would imagine if you ran a 24/48 signal to a DA-P1 the P1 would lock on to the sample rate but truncate the last eight bits.

how come, it has a 48 khz setting
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: F.O.Bean on September 27, 2006, 06:28:40 PM
I tried 24 bit once Tim, and my recording was indeed 24 bit but to be honest it sounded like shit, muffled or something, it just didn't sound *right*, have not run again at that bit rate since then

What did you run it into from the UA-5?  and it verified on yer pc as 24-bit?

-T



481>UA5 at 24bit>TascamDAP1@48 khz, muffled, no high end, not sure what the problem was really

I would imagine if you ran a 24/48 signal to a DA-P1 the P1 would lock on to the sample rate but truncate the last eight bits.

how come, it has a 48 khz setting

yeah, it locked onto the 48k signal but not the 24-bit signal, p1 is only 16-bits, so those last 8 bits had to go somewhere
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: tscales on September 27, 2006, 06:43:02 PM
I tried 24 bit once Tim, and my recording was indeed 24 bit but to be honest it sounded like shit, muffled or something, it just didn't sound *right*, have not run again at that bit rate since then

What did you run it into from the UA-5?  and it verified on yer pc as 24-bit?

-T

481>UA5 at 24bit>TascamDAP1@48 khz, muffled, no high end, not sure what the problem was really


Right - i was gonna ask - can a DAT even handle a 24bit digital signal?

I'm very very sure my laptop can handle 24/96 via firewire from firebox, but I'm not sure what the limits of the UA-5 are - I've been told to keep it to 24/48 for USB2.
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: dnsacks on September 27, 2006, 07:30:51 PM
Tim:

agreed, 24/96 is not generally a good idea via usb, but the purpose of trying it @ 24/96 is to see if you can record a 24 bit signal in a controlled setting (since the UA5 can only output 24 bit at 96k, whereas it can output either 24 bit or 16 bit at 44.1 or 48k

d
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: stirinthesauce on September 27, 2006, 08:31:16 PM
I have run 24/48 w/ success, no issues.  Sounds really nice to tell the truth.  Of course I run things a bit different, I don't run the usb but run opti out to my m-audio transit (external soundcard) then into wl4.  I always switch my sample rate and bit depth (ADV switch) before I power on the unit, then I power up my lappy and make the appropriate settings in wl4, then power on the ua-5.
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: tscales on September 28, 2006, 12:29:16 AM
Tim:

agreed, 24/96 is not generally a good idea via usb, but the purpose of trying it @ 24/96 is to see if you can record a 24 bit signal in a controlled setting (since the UA5 can only output 24 bit at 96k, whereas it can output either 24 bit or 16 bit at 44.1 or 48k

d

Wait - so if i have my ua-5 set to 44.1, it will automatically default to 16-bit?   That wooould explain it - as I was still set at 44.1 with the ADV switch ON.

thanks - please confirm if you can - I'll check the manual.

+T
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: dnsacks on September 28, 2006, 09:36:36 AM
tim, that was not what I was trying to say.  my ua5 will output a 24/44.1 signal.  However, since the ua5 will not output a 16/96 signal, setting it to 24/96 should allow you to confirm your laptop settings as you can be confident that your laptop is receiving a 24 bit signal
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: tscales on September 28, 2006, 10:34:06 AM
tim, that was not what I was trying to say.  my ua5 will output a 24/44.1 signal.  However, since the ua5 will not output a 16/96 signal, setting it to 24/96 should allow you to confirm your laptop settings as you can be confident that your laptop is receiving a 24 bit signal

Ahh - good plan for analyzing it - I'll try to trouble shoot it this weekend at the Fox for Lotus.

tim
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: ford prefect on September 28, 2006, 01:10:20 PM
What is between the UA-5 and the laptop?  Could the soundcard be set at 16bit?  I know my DIO 2496 has both a 24 and 16 setting, and if you feed it 24 while it's set at 16 it will truncate it automatically (and WaveLab will correctly recognize it as 16).
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: tscales on September 28, 2006, 01:41:17 PM
What is between the UA-5 and the laptop?  Could the soundcard be set at 16bit?  I know my DIO 2496 has both a 24 and 16 setting, and if you feed it 24 while it's set at 16 it will truncate it automatically (and WaveLab will correctly recognize it as 16).

The UA-5 has a USB output, my laptop has a USB2.0 input, so just a cable.  (no VX or anything like that)

tim
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: Massive Dynamic on December 12, 2006, 11:13:08 PM
I tried 24 bit once Tim, and my recording was indeed 24 bit but to be honest it sounded like shit, muffled or something, it just didn't sound *right*, have not run again at that bit rate since then

What did you run it into from the UA-5?  and it verified on yer pc as 24-bit?

-T

481>UA5 at 24bit>TascamDAP1@48 khz, muffled, no high end, not sure what the problem was really

I would imagine if you ran a 24/48 signal to a DA-P1 the P1 would lock on to the sample rate but truncate the last eight bits.

I just went back to a UA-5 and taped with it last weekend. I got sloppy and forgot to check that all the switches were in the correct position. I noticed halfway through the set that the ADV switch was engaged, and I was feeding a DAT and an iRiver. I'm guessing that the data was truncated, but I am having a hard time hearing a difference between the first and second halves of the recording. Should it be really noticeable?

Also, I heard an odd noise that might be due to disengaging the ADV switch, or maybe it was cellphone interference. I've attached a clip. Thanks for any help.
Title: Re: UA-5 as 24bit (ADV switch?)
Post by: BC on December 13, 2006, 03:08:44 AM
I'm guessing that the data was truncated, but I am having a hard time hearing a difference between the first and second halves of the recording. Should it be really noticeable?


I have not found truncated 16 bit audio to have any glaring problems on casual listening. Very acceptable to listen to IMHO.