Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: dxtreme on November 01, 2006, 10:47:22 AM
-
Hey guys,
I do video and indie movies and I need a compact field recorder. I run the Mic into my Sound Devices Mixpre preamp, and I would like to run XLR Line In to a field recorder. However I cant seems to find a recorder under $1000 that has XLR Line In input.
I know sound devices has their recorders but it is too expensive at > $1800 Is the Zoom H4 allows XLR line In ?? what about the fostex fr2le ??? Can oade mod one of the marantz to take XLR Line In ??
thanks guys for any help you can render
-
Must the recorder take balanced XLR line-in? Why not unbalanced RCA? That open up your options a lot.
The Edirol R-4 is close to a grand and satisfies your requirement, but may prove too large / overkill for your situation.
-
thing is, in a typical set, there will be power cords all over (some powering 1000 watts lights...etc). So i feel more comfortable running XLR balance input.
what about the upcoming new FR2le ?? would it have XLR line in??
-
I run the Mic into my Sound Devices Mixpre preamp, and I would like to run XLR Line In to a field recorder. However I cant seems to find a recorder under $1000 that has XLR Line In input.
Is keeping the Mixpre preamp a requirement? Because some of these new recorders (R4 , Zoom, SD 702/722) have preamps built in so that you could run mics>mic in>recorder and sell the Mixpre to add a little cash to your budget.
-
thing is, in a typical set, there will be power cords all over (some powering 1000 watts lights...etc). So i feel more comfortable running XLR balance input.
what about the upcoming new FR2le ?? would it have XLR line in??
There's also the possibility of balanced 1/4" as well. I don't know any recorders that have them myself, but don't think it has to be XLR to be balanced.
-
so basically it all comes down to these few choices,
a) sell the Mixpre and get the 702. Use the 702, preamp and mixing capabilities (since i need only 2 channels right now)
b) buy the Tascam HD P2 , Disadvantage: RCA LINE IN only, made in china Advantage: a lot of the pros like the sound quality of the P2
c) buy the R2, Disadvantage: Noisy Electronics (they are offering 4 channels and preamps for only $1195 !) Advantage: XLR Line In, made in japan
:(
which would you guys recommend?
-
For your purpose I would say go for the 702 if the budget will permit.
The N>TRANS from Maycom (www.maycom.nl) has balanced line inputs, but I'm just getting started on the software for it. A pocket pc might be ideal due to the compact size. I have a few users capturing movie audio with pocket pc's. However, you might want a ruggedized box if you are shooting in wet weather on occasion.
-
You can run the line output of the MixPre into the XLR input on the
Tascam HD-P2. The HD-P2's XLR is even labeled "Mic/Line." You may
need to use a -20dB pad if the Tascam's preamp is overpowered by the
line level signal. (The Sound Devices 302 mixer has a range of power
options for line out. The MixPre doesn't seem to have this feature.)
I think the HD-P2 is attractive for movie and tv production because
it has the ability to sync to external time code. It's the least expensive
recorder with this feature.
Flintstone
-
How about the new Fostex FR-2LE - out in January?
Up to 24/96 on a CF card and should retail in the UK for £499.
-
thing is, in a typical set, there will be power cords all over (some powering 1000 watts lights...etc). So i feel more comfortable running XLR balance input.
what about the upcoming new FR2le ?? would it have XLR line in??
]
IMO, Here is the deal on a balanced line in, there is a huge reason why most manufacturers do not bother with it. Line in levels are anywhere from -20 or-10 on non pro gear to +4, at +4 the chances of getting any induction from anything especially if you keep you cable lengths short is nill.
The whole point of balanced audio is mainly because at mic levels of anywhere from -60 to -40, you need it (common mode rejection) because when you preamp that signal, it will or could contain an inducted signal as well. So you would be "boosting" both signals, with a line input you don't have that problem because the inducted signal if there is any, on a short 12 inch lead and I would doubt it will be so much lower then the signal that is being sent, that you would not detect it in most cases.
I have worked in situations where there is not just one light but 400,000 watts of lighting and dimming going on, and unbalanced has never caused me a problem with induction as long as the signals were +4 or -10 and cable lengths were SHORT
Turing a unbalanced -20 db input into a balanced -20 db input still gives you the same noise floor problems except now you have the added loss of frequency response and increased distortion due to the transformer! ( unless your willing to go very high end on the transformer say $150 each) But the problem with that is now you have added $300 to the cost of your recorder! Not to mention the tech fees for building the transformers into your recorder and the XLR connections.
Also most XLR connectors on recorders line inputs are NOT balanced. They are Pin 2 hot pin 3 connected to Pin 1. I am not saying that a balanced line input cant come in handy some times but.... What I am saying is that in most cases if the line input cable is kept short, and is of good quality induction is not a problem. Now if you go and park your gear on top of a lighting dimmer well.... Yes you could have a problem but you would have the same problem with balanced, because inside the gear in question for the most part the signal gets unbalanced as soon as it gets inside the recorder. So all that protects the signal is a thin metal shield and its not enough for any type of dimmer based strong em induction. So its a moot point IMO.
Chris Church
-
the HDp2 is not a true XLR line-in (regardless what it said on the unit itself), I already confirmed this with the company.
I also heard a lot of negative notion about Fostex ??? nearly every pro that i talked to despite Fostex products because of the quality of their products. Any merit to that notion i wonder ??
-
I also heard a lot of negative notion about Fostex ??? nearly every pro that i talked to despite Fostex products because of the quality of their products. Any merit to that notion i wonder ??
I have had the original Fostex FR-2 since the first batch - no complaints and very reliable - I use it for mastering classical music recordings for CD release.
The only complaint was the short battery life when used outside.
-
the HDp2 is not a true XLR line-in (regardless what it said on the unit itself), I already confirmed this with the company.
I also heard a lot of negative notion about Fostex ??? nearly every pro that i talked to despite Fostex products because of the quality of their products. Any merit to that notion i wonder ??
Fostex used to be one of the top location recorders out there for film then they started to break down! The service at fostex SUCKS. That is one of the main reasons they are no longer in on top and companies like Roland have eaten them for breakfast.
Chris Church
-
So, mainly only the customer service SUCKS and they still build durable quality products??
Fostex used to be one of the top location recorders out there for film then they started to break down! The service at fostex SUCKS. That is one of the main reasons they are no longer in on top and companies like Roland have eaten them for breakfast.
Chris Church
-
how about this: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=74381.0
sell the mixpre and get the oade mod and you'd be all set.
-
So, mainly only the customer service SUCKS and they still build durable quality products??
Fostex used to be one of the top location recorders out there for film then they started to break down! The service at fostex SUCKS. That is one of the main reasons they are no longer in on top and companies like Roland have eaten them for breakfast.
Chris Church
I think Fostex has always built durable products the real question is will you be able to get parts when you need them and slow service turn around times keep your machine tied up for weeks. I also look at format I feel the best format is a memory card if you want reliability there is nothing better. Much better then tape, hard disk, CD.
-
I suppose it depends where you are - I am in the UK and Fostex's Agent in the UK (SCV London) have always been excellent.
Although I use the FR-2 now, I also have two D-10 DATs, which I have had for many years, and have always found SCV to give very good service.
-
get a tascam hdp2 and xlr>rca cables.
-
KenH posted that the HD-P2's XLR ports work well for line input, as follows:
"When I record The Radiators, who provide a soundboard patch bay w/ RCA
and XLR outs, plug the other end to XLR in on the P2, the mic/line switch
to MIC and set the pad at -20db.
I've done this several times, and it works great. And others I know have
done it this way too."
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=73541.0
Send a PM to KenH to get a pointer to files he has recorded in this manner.
Flintstone
-
I dont think that will work as i am using analog in and need the A->D converter in the recorder. Also, for the sake of redundancy, i also need to run another line to the camcorder to capture the sound.
-
not for nothing, but you can always run line out of the mixpre (3.5mm TRS) into somthing like a R1 or R09.
might open up some other options for you.