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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: insanescott on November 11, 2006, 05:31:38 PM

Title: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: insanescott on November 11, 2006, 05:31:38 PM
I am looking to purchase a simple rig for stealth recording. I am hoping to find a rig that includes just mic and recorder. I am considering purchasing an iRiver H-120 and some low profile mics. Can anyone suggest some mics?

Also, I am trying to avoid battery boxes and and excessive amount of cables and other junk. Do battery boxes only help out with louder recording situations?  Any suggestions on a better sounding setup than the iRiver? How is the quality difference between the iRiver and the Microtrack?  Any help would be MUCH appreciated!!! I am a total newbie to portable recording setups although I am very familiar with home recording gear. Thanks in advance.

Scott
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: kmm on November 11, 2006, 06:07:07 PM
budget? recording situation?
have you considered the edirol r-09?
if you go with iriver h120 you will want to install rockbox.
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: insanescott on November 11, 2006, 06:13:44 PM
I was trying to keep the entire rig around the 500-700 price range.  ALso, if I were to get a digital recorder that isnt an mp3 player I'm thinking about the Microtrack.  It seems like ther Eridol has more than I need.  Thanks for the response, and any further help is extremely appreciated. 

Scott
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: Will_S on November 11, 2006, 06:30:08 PM
Many people report that the Edirol is more reliable than the Microtrack.  Many stealth mics in your price range use a 1/8" jack that takes plug in power (or a battery box), the Edirol can accomodate these without an adapter but the Microtrack can't.

A battery box will improve the sound in most situations, and it doesn't take much, volume-wise, before you'd want to have one with most stealth mics.

Reportedly the Sennheiser-based cardioids from Microphone Madness can take quite high SPLs without a battery box if it's really such a concern.
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: dorrcoq on November 11, 2006, 07:02:34 PM
The battery box I got from Sound Professionals is extremely small, really barely bigger than the 9V battery, so it really doesn't impede your stealthiness
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: beefstew on November 12, 2006, 12:42:44 AM
I was trying to keep the entire rig around the 500-700 price range.  ALso, if I were to get a digital recorder that isnt an mp3 player I'm thinking about the Microtrack.  It seems like ther Eridol has more than I need.  Thanks for the response, and any further help is extremely appreciated. 

Scott

hmm $500 - $700 price range?

how about a Zoom H4 and some AT's?
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: agave on November 12, 2006, 01:06:32 AM
you want KILLER RECORDS ?  go with a Marantz 66o with the Oade acm mod & get the best mic's you can .. that take a phantom power that the 660 will do   my suggestion is Schoeps ccm4lg's Or ccm41lgs .. you will not lose money on those mics as they go up in price every year ... there some schoeps mics that are 25 years old that were bought at 300.00 us $ a  pair  then  & now sell for 7,000 $+  each .. if u can find anyone who will sell them   all this is I M H O  only
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: habit on November 14, 2006, 07:59:29 PM
I've been able to get some nice stealth pulls using the Sony MZ-M100 Mini Disc and Soundpro CMC4 stealth mics with a small Sound Pro battery box.
After 50+ shows with this set up I've figured out when recording within the first tier section of most (if not all) venues, you will want to use the Bass Roll-Off at 69Hz. I say this in relation to louder bands and not accoustic type settings.
You can find some of my shows with this set up on Boot City under the same name.
Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: poorlyconditioned on November 14, 2006, 08:25:43 PM

Reportedly the Sennheiser-based cardioids from Microphone Madness can take quite high SPLs without a battery box if it's really such a concern.

I've used those mics and IMO they overload similar to AT853.  You need either three-wire battery box to fix that.  A battery box with some rolloff will help, but not really eliminate distortion from loud shows.

  Richard
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: kevy_metal on November 20, 2006, 08:49:32 AM
If I'm recording with an iriver would you reccomend using both a battery box and preamp to handle any distortion issues?
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: manleyf on November 20, 2006, 11:02:33 PM
I've had about 6 different stealth recording rigs over the past 4 years or so.  The past several pre-amps and mics have all been made by Chris Church with Church Audio.  Chris hand builds his products, uses high quality components, and most importantly, his prices are excellent IMO since he does not have retail expenses, etc.  And, he's a super guy to deal with and is very helpful.

I've used his gear in everything from quiet, acoustic classical setting to full blazing Steve Vai and Black Sabbath shows.  In every situation, I've been very happy with the outcome.  So as for mics and pre-amp, my recommendation comes easy, check out Church-Audio.  I actually just purchased my 5th preamp from him (I've sold and upgraded over the years).  Oh yeah, and he often gives a discount to TS members, and can be found giving honest advise, like I recently saw him telling someone to buy the SP preamp as he felt like it would be more quiet for lecture recordings.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=73499.0

Now, the tough part- what recorder to use.  I've used MD, JB3, MT, Laptop, etc.  So far my favorite is the MT (M-Audio Micro Tracker).  Here's why I like it- it has all the inputs you might need, including one the R-09 DOES NOT HAVE- DIGITAL IN.  If you go to a nicer front end or open taping rig, like many of us grow into, you will definitely want to have a digital input.  My new MT now can serve as a digital back end for my Earthworks > Grace V3 rig, as well as stealth scenarios.  I just recorded a speaker with only the Church Audio omni's straight into the MT and it sounds awesome.  Excellent levels, lower noise than I ever expected, etc.  (the MT 1/8" > internal pre-amp is not known as the most quiet, but with the 27db boost, apparently its better than no boost according to sonicstudios:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm

I don't think you'll find a better recorder with the features of the MT in the <$500 price point, especially one that will work for Stealth and open rig taping.  I believe you can get them at guitar center for as low as $299.  I also love that from the ground up, its designed to record audio- so, the menus are simple and easy, and most importantly it has features like ONE button record, and a hold switch, nice back light, etc....

One disadvantage of the MT for long stealth taping is power- but I think this would handle the job fairly stealthy:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2970

One other one to consider is the discontinued iRiver H120.  I haven't used it myself, but I've heard from several reputable tapers that it is a better solution than the JB3 (which I still own and like quite well), has very good battery life, is compact, 20gb or 40gb, and had good meters, which is very important.  Supposedly they can be had used in the mid $100 range.

And, as far as taping loud shows, yes a battery box, or preamp is pretty much essential.  I learned this the hard way, trying to not use one years ago.

So, after many hours of live and studio recording, on everything from cheap mics and an MD to Hollywood Studio quality mics, preamps and converters, for stealth, and a budget, I'm very happy with my Church Audio Mics and Pre into the MT.

Hope that helps ya out...   :P
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: petur on November 21, 2006, 07:47:16 AM
I'm using an iriver h340 (same audio chip as htx0 series) with a nice pre-amp from Chris Church. For really loud shows I can recommend his cardoids with his pre-amp (the st9100 does a perfect job here).
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: aberg on November 21, 2006, 09:12:59 AM
you want KILLER RECORDS ?  go with a Marantz 66o with the Oade acm mod & get the best mic's you can .. that take a phantom power that the 660 will do   my suggestion is Schoeps ccm4lg's Or ccm41lgs .. you will not lose money on those mics as they go up in price every year ... there some schoeps mics that are 25 years old that were bought at 300.00 us $ a  pair  then  & now sell for 7,000 $+  each .. if u can find anyone who will sell them   all this is I M H O  only

He has a price limit of 500-700 so this suggestion is WAY out of his range.
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: knoxmallette on November 21, 2006, 11:32:41 AM
kevy_ I use a battery box with levels & roll-off from sound pros into an iRiver H120 and for loud amphitheatre and indoor shows I have had great results. I have had less stellar results @ festivals with multiple stages where the sound is not as loud- in those cases a pre-amp would be helpful. I have read in other posts where you can use both a pre-amp and battery box in tandem but I don't have any experience with that set-up.
Title: Re: Stealth Taping Rig Suggestions
Post by: manleyf on November 21, 2006, 01:31:20 PM
The r09 is a much much better stealth recorder than the microtrack.  I own both.

I only own the MT, MD and JB3, but the R09 sounds interesting.  I think the lack of digital in makes it much less versatile, but do you think its worth the trade off?  That is, do the features of the R09 for stealthing outshine the MT so much that you'd have it as your only recording device? 

If so, what features of the R09 make it superior to the MT for stealthing?

Thanks for your feedback- its quite valuable since you own both....