Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Jimna on January 08, 2007, 09:00:15 PM
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Today I became the proud father of 2 twins. ;D as i practice setting up different configurations, i find a simple question that i cant seem to find an answer to in either the info packaged in the case or here in the archives.
which side is the front of the mic? the selector side or the side with the adk stamp? and whats the best way to "aim" them, or what point on the body can be used as my center front for aiming? also any hints in setting up to make my results more uniform? ie: always face front of mic 180* from mount side as its sits in the basket... ect? ???
hope i dont sound like an ass with such simple questions, but i never thought of them until today as i look at them in my hand. :-\
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i 8think8 the front side for cards/hypers is the side the adk stamp is on jimbo :)
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ADK side is definitely the front side. The "D" on the ADK is the dead center of the mic. To aim, I always pointed the shockmounts dead ahead and then turned the mics within the shockmounts to adjust angles. You'll find that the spots where the shockmount bands are connnected are 1/8 of the way around the shocks or 45 degrees. Quick and easy way to measure the angles.
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i 8think8 the front side for cards/hypers is the side the adk stamp is on jimbo :)
Does that mean that for figure of 8 it is different, like in SD mics? It is on the sides? If so I screwed up a blumlien recording recently.
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i 8think8 the front side for cards/hypers is the side the adk stamp is on jimbo :)
Does that mean that for figure of 8 it is different, like in SD mics? It is on the sides? If so I screwed up a blumlien recording recently.
fig 8 is shouldnt matter i wopuldnt think, because both caps are active
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i 8think8 the front side for cards/hypers is the side the adk stamp is on jimbo :)
Does that mean that for figure of 8 it is different, like in SD mics? It is on the sides? If so I screwed up a blumlien recording recently.
fig 8 is shouldnt matter i wopuldnt think, because both caps are active
Just the clarify, Figure 8 is both the front (forward capsule) and rear (back capsule).
(http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/studio/teaching/audio/Mics/img05.gif)
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i 8think8 the front side for cards/hypers is the side the adk stamp is on jimbo :)
Does that mean that for figure of 8 it is different, like in SD mics? It is on the sides? If so I screwed up a blumlien recording recently.
fig 8 is shouldnt matter i wopuldnt think, because both caps are active
Just the clarify, Figure 8 is both the front (forward capsule) and rear (back capsule).
(http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/studio/teaching/audio/Mics/img05.gif)
front/back, left/right, whatever :)
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re: fig 8
remember that the front is "in phase" and the back is 180 degrees out of phase. this is important when decoding to stereo.
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re: fig 8
remember that the front is "in phase" and the back is 180 degrees out of phase. this is important when decoding to stereo.
like decoding for MS, right? Blumlien does not need decoded, right?
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ADK side is definitely the front side. The "D" on the ADK is the dead center of the mic. To aim, I always pointed the shockmounts dead ahead and then turned the mics within the shockmounts to adjust angles. You'll find that the spots where the shockmount bands are connnected are 1/8 of the way around the shocks or 45 degrees. Quick and easy way to measure the angles.
awesome! the d= deadcenter, how simple is that. i dont have a extension for my T bar to run them vertically, i have a clamp that works fine but means i cant run with my baskets both facing forward. ill keep this in mind if i do get a beter setup in the future.
i 8think8 the front side for cards/hypers is the side the adk stamp is on jimbo :)
Does that mean that for figure of 8 it is different, like in SD mics? It is on the sides? If so I screwed up a blumlien recording recently.
fig 8 is shouldnt matter i wopuldnt think, because both caps are active
Just the clarify, Figure 8 is both the front (forward capsule) and rear (back capsule).
(http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/studio/teaching/audio/Mics/img05.gif)
so if i run blumlein, its going to pick up any croud noise to its rear and sides? then this wouldnt be a good setup unless extremely close to to my sound source?
any advise on what situations would be better than others for running blumlein? and when is it better than running omnis?
also while im on a 20 question rant, ive never had hypers. so at what point do i want to go to them instead of the cards. i guess distance is a large part, or is that pretty much it?
edit to add: +T to all in the thread, thanks for the help.
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re: fig 8
remember that the front is "in phase" and the back is 180 degrees out of phase. this is important when decoding to stereo.
like decoding for MS, right? Blumlien does not need decoded, right?
You are right, Blumlien does not need to be decoded. IT is a stereo technique.
The Following is ripped from the microphone university from DPA:
The Blumlein stereo set-up is a coincidence stereo technique, which uses two bi-directional microphones in the same point and angled at 90° to each other. This stereo technique will normally give the best results when used at shorter distances to the sound source, as bi-directional microphones are using the pressure gradient transducer technology and therefore is under influence of the proximity effect. At larger distances these microphones therefore will lose the low frequencies. The Blumlein stereo is purely producing intensity related stereo information. It has a higher channel separation than the XY stereo, but has the disadvantage, that sound sources located behind the stereo pair also will be picked up and even be reproduced with inverted phase.
The following link is how you mics would look set up for Blumlein. Remember the mics have to be switched to its bidirectioinal pattern in order for this technique to work. If the mics are in the card position it would end up being XY technique
http://www.taperssection.com/reference/images/JasonB%20LD%20Mic%20Configs/vertical%20XY%2090%25bc%20front.JPG
I hope this all helps...peace John
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excellent! so any thoughts on when to use omni vs. blumlien? sounds like they are both have similar qualities.....
or card vs. hyper?
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excellent! so any thoughts on when to use omni vs. blumlien? sounds like they are both have similar qualities.....
or card vs. hyper?
Personally I would only use Blumlien up close, the same with omnis. With omnis you could do a split set up at 2' to whatever distance you want. But with omnis you can use a OSS technique which uses a J-disk between the omnis or the healy method which is two omnis facing 180 degress from each other.
use cards in a good sounding room. This pattern is the one that is used the most. Its the most versitile of all the patterns. Hypes are used best in poor sounding rooms where you want to block out as much of the acoustics as possible or when you are trying to pull sound from a distance.
I hope all this helps...peace John
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Congrats. I love mine.
Check out this thread - the photos are very instructive:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,17020.0.html
The "front" assuming you are running anything but omnis as has been stated is the side with the ADK, the switch side is the back.
As has also been mentioned, I too use the prongs on the supermounts to eyeball align my mics to ~ 90 degree angle between the pair. Any other angle assume an imaginary line across the top of the mic running through the center from the switch side to the ADK emblem side is the same axis as the focal point for the actual diaphragms and go from there... Hold the mic up in a bright light and you can see the diaphragms behind the grill on the front and the back and then what I mean by the imaginary line across the middle should be obvious.
A few other suggestions:
Assuming you have the "Supermounts" - gray elastic bands, mad heavy:
1) Get clamps and whatever you need to run vertical instead of horizontal for coincident configs. Horizontal with that style of shockmount puts a lot of uneven stress on the bands - they are really only suitable for running the mics in a vertical position, with the tubes pointed either up or down - i.e. "sitting on the basket" or "hanging down from the basket".
2) The pattern switch does not have a really strong "click" action, so it's easily jogged during setup. After you have yoiur mics on the stand, angled and spaced, and ready to sky, double check that the pattern switch is still where you wanted it to be as the next to the last step before you slip on the foams and lift 'em. Don't want to record a show only to realize you had the left on hyper and the right on card etc. May be obvious, but I still always double check this before I lift em.
3) Take ONE of the supermounts and disassemble it (you'll need to be able to look at an assembled one as a model). Then figure out how to string the bands. Trust me. your first reaction is gonna be "Why the hell did I want to fix something that's not broken?" Mine certainly was. But eventually you probably will find yourself in the position where one is broken. If you have not already done it at least a few or more times in a no pressure situation - like sitting at home - then all I can say is good luck doing it stressed and pressed for time in the field!!!
4) There has been some debate on whether the mic can fall through the mount if a band breaks. Assuming you have the "newer" style supermount, the mic can definitely drop if a band breaks. You should be able to look at it and tell if the center ring can or cannot fall through the outer ring, but I can post a pic of the newer style if you are not sure. (I'm not saying bands breaking is a big problem, it;s just a possibility). I leave a little slack in my cables but then wrap them with a generous amount of gaffers tape near the top of the stand so that if I were to break a band the taped cable should prevent a catastrophic dump of the mic itself.
Finally enjoy! I picked mine up this past fall, have only taped 6 shows with them so far, but... for those of us that don't have fortunes to spend on gear, to get a full kit - shocks, and 4 patterns, you've got a lot of bang for your buck. And price aside, the 51TL is just a damn fine microphone period. ;D
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sorry to bump and old thread but i figured this fit the title.....
ive been using my TL's some and experimenting with recording in blumlein. i love the sense of image i get, but noticed a loss in the low end compared to the cards. anyone else notice this? is this a trait of the figure 8 caps?
other than this i love the sound im getting with this configuration. i love diversity of these mics. at anytime i can go with 4 options, and i love knowing that. ^-^
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sorry to bump and old thread but i figured this fit the title.....
ive been using my TL's some and experimenting with recording in blumlein. i love the sense of image i get, but noticed a loss in the low end compared to the cards. anyone else notice this? is this a trait of the figure 8 caps?
other than this i love the sound im getting with this configuration. i love diversity of these mics. at anytime i can go with 4 options, and i love knowing that. ^-^
it is my understanding that a blumlein config has a natural bass roll off.
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it is my understanding that a blumlein config has a natural bass roll off.
i have noticed this as well.
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4) I leave a little slack in my cables but then wrap them with a generous amount of gaffers tape near the top of the stand so that if I were to break a band the taped cable should prevent a catastrophic dump of the mic itself.
I loop my mic cables around and back through my T-Bar. If the mic falls thru, it will get caught by the cable, it is tied to the stand. Also, if anyone pulls on the cable from below, the T-Bar will take the stress, not the bottom of the mic. I'll post pix if I can find one, or get remember to bring a camera from work tomorrow...
Terry