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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: Gutbucket on March 27, 2007, 05:07:54 PM
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The 'low-cut' function on the DPA MMA6000 preamp corner freq. is around 100hz I believe. Designed with dialog work in mind I'd think, it's too high/severe for music recording. Has anyone here done any mods to change it to be more useful for our apps?
Ordinarily I do not use any form of roll off before the recorder. Most of what I record is not overly loud or bass heavy and 4060's work very well. However, with very loud amplified music that so often features unnaturally hyped bass 'gut slam', the 60hz region and below can become overloaded and overbearing on playback (gee, just like it is at the concert :P). This was the case for me doing some HRTF recordings at Langerado a few weeks back, which is the loudest thing I've recorded with this 4060>mma6000>R-09 chain. In that case I ran the mma6000 at the zero gain setting for the first time > R-09 mic in (line-in jack still needs repair) low gain switch setting, preamp level somewhere around 6-8 on the Edirol. Results? Super bass heavy & boomy, but also some wonky highs at times that I hadn't expected or noticed before. I suspect I could have been overloading the mics a bit in this case. That problem obviously wouldn't be remedied by this mod. But I could at least cut back on the boom early in the chain and get something more manageable on tape 'card' at another overly loud 'boom enhanced' PA'd gig.
Some have commented that the 10db higher SPL limit of the 4061 makes them more suitable for loud concert recording, also implying that the heavy bass loading is less of an issue than with the more sensitive 4060's in a high SPL environment. maybe, but I'm not looking to buy 4061's for 10db more headroom.
A simple low cut or shelf filter tuned to an appropriate slope and corner frequency might do an acceptable job of this for me, to be engaged only when necessary. I'd ignore it most of the time. What I'd love to have an shaped inverse 'bass hype' reduction filter that I can engage to tame that unnatural boom. That PA mixing style seems to be a common these days, maybe even expected at loud shows. I could rant about it but I won't. My theory is that people have become used to way over hyped bass and this has become the new norm. Perhaps sound reinforcement companies will start putting spare tires, jacks and lug wrenches inside their bass bins to get that one-note bass cruiser car rattle all the time at shows that fans increasingly have come to expect. ::). Rambling..
Anyone change theirs themselves? anyone offering mods?
Thoughts?
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I was going to make some veiled dremel reference in the post above, but bit my tounge. ;)
I did record with the highpass switch accidentally engaged once early on, but that was just a matter of not checking the switch position when before rolling, when I turned the pre on.
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I believe you have purchased and are using the mic (4060) that is more sensitive and thus more suitable for acoustic/vocal/folk/classical music applications, rather than the more well suited and less sensitive 4061 mic that is more suitable for louder and more dynamic sound, and that may be part of your recording dilemma; that said, you must remember that regardless of which of these mics is used, they are omnidirectional mics, and have a 360 degree pick up pattern which will produce totally different recordings than, for example, cardiod mics, and this may explain undesireable acoustics in your recordings like boom and echo; the idea of having a tiny but high end DPA rig is alluring, to be sure, I still have access to one I can use when needed, but in the end these mics as is the case with any mics are not ideal for every recording application and results will vary widely and sometimes to not great results; I would think using these mics to tape from a good distance from the sound source, for example, would not produce high quality recordings at all
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wanna see my mma6k hpf mod? ::) ;D
NO ;)
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I believe you have purchased and are using the mic (4060) that is more sensitive and thus more suitable for acoustic/vocal/folk/classical music applications, rather than the more well suited and less sensitive 4061 mic that is more suitable for louder and more dynamic sound, and that may be part of your recording dilemma; that said, you must remember that regardless of which of these mics is used, they are omnidirectional mics, and have a 360 degree pick up pattern which will produce totally different recordings than, for example, cardiod mics, and this may explain undesireable acoustics in your recordings like boom and echo; the idea of having a tiny but high end DPA rig is alluring, to be sure, I still have access to one I can use when needed, but in the end these mics as is the case with any mics are not ideal for every recording application and results will vary widely and sometimes to not great results; I would think using these mics to tape from a good distance from the sound source, for example, would not produce high quality recordings at all
Most of what I tape is acoustic music, folk, bluegrass, jazz, classical, choral, etc. as well as ambient soundscape recordings where the higher sensitivity and lower self-noise of the 4060's are welcome. I understand the pattern issues involved & I'm not talking about the acoustics of the room and mic placement here, I'm just wondering about modifying a useless preamp function to make the 5% of the heavily bass saturated stuff perhaps more managable.
You are correct that these mics really shine up close to an acoustic or only lightly amplified source (after all that's why I got them), but I have also gotten some very good results in the far field both in a good sounding large theater just a few rows from the back wall in front of the board (approx. 18" baffled), and outside at a festival (49" spaced omni setup).
Honestly I find it hard to believe that the 4061's are that much less bass sensitive for amplified stuff. Both are omnis and use the same capsule.
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I would love to know an answer to this topic. Using the 4061 with mma6000 I cant seem to find the right level for the mma6000. I use to record with the level turned all the way on the edirol with mma6000 set to the first clicked setting> so very low- but still would clip. I never tried to record with the mma6000 set to zero. I did not think a sound would appear. Most shows i attend ar loud, so should i concentrate on the mma6000 input or the input level to the edirol to get a good sound without clipping.
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I am running the dpa 4061>mma6000> line in.
is this right?
I usually have the gain on the edirol all the way up. I guess like all the way open. Then i work the mic signla through the mma6000, but i can only put it on the first notch as it clips?
I dont know enough to sound like i know what i am doing.
I dont know how to get a good signal?
do i turn up the mma6000?
or do i turn up the edirol r-09 to increase gain without sparklies?
I was using the r-1 but now I am up to the r-09.
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I run like running my 4060>MMA6000 >R-09 rig at around 15 to 25 on the pre and around 7 to 8 on the R-09. To my ears, the gain sounds cleaner coming from the MMA than it does coming from the R-09
I mostly record amplified acoustic music at a pretty close distance to the PA.
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great news , thank you
I have had my mics for a long time and had some great shows, and some clipped shows and now i have some reference point.
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@Gutbucket: why didn´t you use the Edirol´s LOW-CUT:ON in addition when using mic-in?
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@Gutbucket: why didn´t you use the Edirol´s LOW-CUT:ON in addition when using mic-in?
Of course I could use either the 'low-cut' on the R-09 or the MMA6000. Honestly I haven't recorded enough super loud, bass heavy material to have done much experimentation using the low-cut settings available, which I'd want to do before making any decision on a mod. Like Moke & Jaledu I mostly record acoustic or amplified acoustic type music so my gain settings are similar to theirs and in those cases I don't need or want any roll-off when recording. There are times even with acoustic music (usually ampified) where I find I need some low end roll-off for playback, but I'd rather make that decision after the fact. I started this thread because of a special case (for me) where the level of the bass was so high that I think it would be an advantage to attenuate some of it before recording the signal. It's likely I would make further EQ adjustments after recording, but hopefully I'd have a more balanced signal with a better mid and high frequency range to work with.
Anyone know the corner frequency and slope of the R-09 low-cut off hand? I don't recall seing that anywhere. I suppose I should test both of them (R-09 & MMA6000).
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Ive taped quite a bit with the 4061s>MMA6000 and have only needed to use the bassfilter once or twice. Taped everywhere from people in my basement to huge outdoor festivals. Only once have i had some distortion because of bass.
Panic! At The Disco (http://www.enemyzero.com/greg/music/IWriteSinsNotTragedies.mp3)
Ive done some EQ to it so its not as bad but still noticeable. The next night I taped Live at the same place in pretty much the same spot but turned on the filter and its much nicer. I run 0db of gain into my HIMD line in at about 25-27 of 30. Only a few times have I needed to use the preamp to make the input louder, but then again im usually recording loud rock shows. I think some tapes, especially, at the tabernacle in Atlanta come out a tad to boomy but nothing little bit of tweaking with soundforge cant fix.