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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: TenoRichards on March 28, 2007, 08:48:39 AM
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Ladies and Germs, been a really long time. :-*'s all around. And a big manly man hug to Moke.
Ok, here's the thing; in the venue which I work, I have a monitor in my dressing room. I would LIKE to build a jack out of this thing to be able to take some kind of line into my R-09. The problem is, the entire speaker has an attenuator on it, AND the biggest challenge is, thru the same speaker, comes Stage Management cues like: "Mr. Richards get your ass onstage." The mics used inhouse are pretty good, and it would simplify thing considerably if I could jack into their system, all for my own usage, of course...wink wink nudge nudge.
You guys with soldering experience, can you walk me thru how you'd get a jack connected to this thing? I am assuming that the BLUE wire seen below that does NOT go to the attenuator will be the Stage Manager's line (I deduce that cuz you can't turn down his voice in the speaker, for fear of missed cues, but you CAN turn down/off the music coming from stage, when the soprano sucks) >:D. So, using the green and red, I should be able to get something. Question is, HOW? And where!?
Many thanks in advance.
Andrew
p.s. Yeah I AM wearing makeup FOO! Whatchu gonna do 'bout it!?
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just to be clear....you don't have soundboard access to plug the R09 into? The reason i ask because i'm concerned about the signal quality coming out of that speaker. Typically, speaker setups for dressing rooms are heavily limited for when the director needs to cue the actors.
Also, would theatre management be cool with you hacking into that speaker? If you say the house microphones are good, i would try to tap into those with a splitter before it gets to the soundboard, if you can't have access to the soundboard.
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Getting SB approval would be kinda tough. I'm not worried about the signal quality coming out of the speaker, I'm more worried about quality going into it, if you know what I mean. I want to grab the signal somewhere along that chain within the monitor, but don't know what that rectangular thing is that all the signals go into, maybe some kind of amp or something? Before that stage or on the way to Speaker. And HOW?? I've used a soldering iron once, but could do it again.
There IS some kind of limiting on the inhouse sound, that's for sure. The thing is, I haven't noticed it when SM does announcment. I think that signal just comes right on top of the stage signal. The mics are Shoeps something or other up in the rafters mounted on some kind of disk thingy. I suppose I could take a pix of those too, but again, for expediency at this time, I'm most interested into hacking into a place where I may inconspicuously tape my own singing. For laughs, see MacBeth set in an ant colony. Only in Germany can they get away with this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAVeqlOhi2w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAVeqlOhi2w)
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You might need something like this to handle the speaker level signal...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Zdirect/
I don't think there is any amp in there - older speakers have that transformer...I forget why.
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Ladies and Germs, been a really long time. :-*'s all around. And a big manly man hug to Moke.
Ok, here's the thing; in the venue which I work, I have a monitor in my dressing room. I would LIKE to build a jack out of this thing to be able to take some kind of line into my R-09. The problem is, the entire speaker has an attenuator on it, AND the biggest challenge is, thru the same speaker, comes Stage Management cues like: "Mr. Richards get your ass onstage." The mics used inhouse are pretty good, and it would simplify thing considerably if I could jack into their system, all for my own usage, of course...wink wink nudge nudge.
You guys with soldering experience, can you walk me thru how you'd get a jack connected to this thing? I am assuming that the BLUE wire seen below that does NOT go to the attenuator will be the Stage Manager's line (I deduce that cuz you can't turn down his voice in the speaker, for fear of missed cues, but you CAN turn down/off the music coming from stage, when the soprano sucks) >:D. So, using the green and red, I should be able to get something. Question is, HOW? And where!?
Many thanks in advance.
Andrew
p.s. Yeah I AM wearing makeup FOO! Whatchu gonna do 'bout it!?
The problem with most dressing room speakers in Theaters is they are not connected to the soundboard. They more often then not use a pair of "room mics" because not every performance in a real theater will be amplified. This is why they dont usually connect the dressing room speakers to the soundboard. The sound quality will not be good, it will be even worse if they have eq'ed the feed for intelligibility.
Good luck.
PS.... I forgot one thing that looks like a 70volt distributed system I would not be hooking anything up to it.. Unless you want to fry your edirol. If you insist on trying this you need a multitap 70 volt transformer with a -0.5 watt tap. BUT again knowing this is a 70 volt system its not going to sound good.
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Good to see you around these parts!
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So it is interesting that you can turn down the house sound but not the stage mgr. Is it possible the stage mgr comes out of one speaker and the performance from the other? Just wondering.. but I think you are correct that the stage mgr is probably on the blue.
I'd expect the house signal will need to be attenuated before you record it. You can use the existing pot to set the levels or use something else.. For initial testing, using their pot seems to be the way to go and it isn't clear that more effort or gear would actually improve the results. I assume nobody will be in the room messing with the volume during the performance.
To be conservative with your r09... You could take a junk pair of headphones, cut the plug off and strip the wires bare. You will want to identify a signal wire and a ground wire. Touch those to the terminals on the pot until you confirm where your signal is coming from. I'd expect green+red or green+yellow. I suppose there is a chance of electric shock here so don't touch anything with your fingers and wear rubber shoes while you are doing this, etc. If your body creates a path to ground, you could get killed. Just never know how hot that circuit is until you measure it to ground, etc.
In terms of making this easy to connect to your r09... The quickest/easiest way to do it.. I'd start with an 1/8 plug to 1/8 plug connector. Cut one end off, strip the wires bare for maybe 2". With a stereo cable you should have a ground and two signal wires. You can join the sig wires together to record two channels of mono or just use one wire. I'd rather just join'em or use a mono cable to avoid one channel playback hassles.
You should be able to wrap that 2" of bare wire tightly around the bolt on the pot. Once you verify it works, wrap it Tight with electrical tape. If you ever wanted to do it 'right' you could unscrew those nuts and attach properly with some spade connectors that are crimped to the wire. I don't think that will be necessary unless the cabinet vibrates a lot from the speaker, etc.
At that point I think you could plug into the r09 and gradually turn up the pot until you get levels. No promises it won't fry. I think the impedance matching will be okay but I'm not really sure.
I think you could push the cable back into the cabinet via the pot hole when not in use? You'd need to make sure the tip didn't short anything. Alternatively, once you get this working you could attach a socket to the cabinet. Maybe put it on top where nobody would notice?
If its a 70 volt system and he hooks up headphones they will get toasted. Not to mention the fact he could blow up the 70 volt amp driving the speakers.
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You might need something like this to handle the speaker level signal...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Zdirect/
I don't think there is any amp in there - older speakers have that transformer...I forget why.
The transformer is there because this is ether a 70volt distributed sound system or a 100volt system ether way he will likely fry the edirol if he even looks at trying to tap in.
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Only the top speaker works. Both signals (SM and stage) coming thru top speaker, thus my need to find a way to get the SM's signal stripped from what I want.
Question: If I use the signal from the "pot" (is that the term for the round attenuator?) I won't have bypassed the SM, right? I HAVE to keep the SM's voice coming thru the speaker so I can hear cues. Couldn't I use a generic attenuator in the line out providing the voltage is ok?
What prevents me (and here I really DO show my ignorance) from splicing in at the top of the chain: into the Black and Brown wires (Blue seems to be SM). BEFORE it goes into the transformer?
Thanks for the help so far esp FreeLunch, and the thoughts of making a joined Mono plug. That's exactly what I will do when the time comes. But are you suggesting taking the signal AFTER the transformer? Won't that have the SM's signal in the mix, given they've been joined together at the Transformer? I think I need to splice in further up the chain. But...I'm a tenor, and we're not known for our brains...
S'up, Gumby!!??
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Only the top speaker works. Both signals (SM and stage) coming thru top speaker, thus my need to find a way to get the SM's signal stripped from what I want.
Question: If I use the signal from the "pot" (is that the term for the round attenuator?) I won't have bypassed the SM, right? I HAVE to keep the SM's voice coming thru the speaker so I can hear cues. Couldn't I use a generic attenuator in the line out providing the voltage is ok?
What prevents me (and here I really DO show my ignorance) from splicing in at the top of the chain: into the Black and Brown wires (Blue seems to be SM). BEFORE it goes into the transformer?
Thanks for the help so far esp FreeLunch, and the thoughts of making a joined Mono plug. That's exactly what I will do when the time comes. But are you suggesting taking the signal AFTER the transformer? Won't that have the SM's signal in the mix, given they've been joined together at the Transformer? I think I need to splice in further up the chain. But...I'm a tenor, and we're not known for our brains...
S'up, Gumby!!??
If you splice into that you will toast your edirol....... You need a separate transformer 70volt type with a .5watt tap I just dont want to see you lose your edirol but its up to you.
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nuts. Thanks guys.
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Thanks for the help so far esp FreeLunch, and the thoughts of making a joined Mono plug. That's exactly what I will do when the time comes. But are you suggesting taking the signal AFTER the transformer? Won't that have the SM's signal in the mix, given they've been joined together at the Transformer? I think I need to splice in further up the chain. But...I'm a tenor, and we're not known for our brains...
I am suggesting tapping before the xformer. Pot is an abreviation for potentiometer. A pot is a variable attenuator.
Sticking a transformer in there won't be a big deal. Chris, do you have any recs for transformers?
Andrew, do you have a dvm? These days they can be had for $10-$20. That would allow you to measure the voltage of the system and make it easier to identify the proper transformer and any other components. Given Chris' comments about 70v, you might want to wear rubber gloves when playing around in there. I'd guess a couple pair of latex exam gloves would be adequate as long as they don't tear...
Looks like they have a motion sensor on top of the speakers that is wired into the system.. I assume to know when people are in the dressing rooms. Kinda cool.
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nuts. Thanks guys.
try to go for the archival route through official means if your performances aren't already being recorded and you don't feel like adding in other components
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Thanks for the help so far esp FreeLunch, and the thoughts of making a joined Mono plug. That's exactly what I will do when the time comes. But are you suggesting taking the signal AFTER the transformer? Won't that have the SM's signal in the mix, given they've been joined together at the Transformer? I think I need to splice in further up the chain. But...I'm a tenor, and we're not known for our brains...
I am suggesting tapping before the xformer. Pot is an abreviation for potentiometer. A pot is a variable attenuator.
Sticking a transformer in there won't be a big deal. Chris, do you have any recs for transformers?
Andrew, do you have a dvm? These days they can be had for $10-$20. That would allow you to measure the voltage of the system and make it easier to identify the proper transformer and any other components. Given Chris' comments about 70v, you might want to wear rubber gloves when playing around in there. I'd guess a couple pair of latex exam gloves would be adequate as long as they don't tear...
Looks like they have a motion sensor on top of the speakers that is wired into the system.. I assume to know when people are in the dressing rooms. Kinda cool.
This is a genaric 25volt/70 volt transformer. I dont think its going to sound very good but here is the link to purchase it.
http://www.proacousticsusa.com/productdetail.php?pId=3179
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I'm beginning to wonder if offering the local electrician free opera tickets and then getting him in my dressing room before the show might not pay off. My head hurts!
I'm going to look into the DVM, which will be a challenge with my rather limited Deutsch. I'll let you guys know when I find things out on this end.
BTW...
Is NO ONE gonna give me shit for the ant costume in the YouTube vid!? C'mon guys!!! You're letting me down! (not to mention how I was able to combine the video w/ audio sound. Sheeeooot. I was impressed with myself, until coming back here, then realized I'm a #1 amateur compared to ya'll!)
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Thanks for the transformer reference, Chris!
Andrew, sounds like you may need to find a transformer like that locally.. Maybe print out the page? An alternative might be to try and salvage the transformer from a dead speaker somewhere at the venue?
Unfortunately, I don't think many regular electricians could figure this one out.
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OK I did some research you can interface the 70volt system to a line input with this handy dandy device made by our friends are RDL LABS. this is the model of the device TX-70A this is the link to the PDF that explains how to connect it :) hehe http://www.rdlnet.com/pdf/Data_Sheets/tx-1a.pdf
This is the link that shows you where to buy it for $36.00 :) hehe http://www.youdoitelectronics.com/id274.htm
Here is a picture of the device its very small very easy to fit inside your box :)