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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Teen Wolf Blitzer on April 07, 2007, 12:25:53 PM
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How do you make the decision run one over the other? Just was wondering what folks thoughts were on these configs. I'll be doing Yonder tour soon and want to experiment a bit. Usually I do ORTF but am close if not onstage. Obviously I won't have that at Yonder. I'll try to get a board each night as well as run mics. Maybe even thinking of doing a 4 mic one night maybe. Thanks for the tips and the space.
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I'm sure this isn't a "rule" but I was under the impression that, other factors being equal, DIN-A was more appropriate for use with hypers, while DIN was better suited for cards. If you're going to be back a great distance, though, I'm not sure why DIN-A would necessarily be better even with hypers.
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Yes, DIN-A is for hypers, it is a closer spacing due to the tighter pick up pattern of hypers. You want to use hypers when you are further back to reduce the room. Both DIN & DIN-A are at 90 degree's.
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thanks for the clarification, very helpful! when to use NOS? i have cards and hypers
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thanks for the clarification, very helpful! when to use NOS? i have cards and hypers
There is no right or wrong time to use NOS, I do not prefer the wide spacing of NOS or ORTF with any microphone I have owned but your mileage may vary.
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thanks for the clarification, very helpful! when to use NOS? i have cards and hypers
There is no right or wrong time to use NOS, I do not prefer the wide spacing of NOS or ORTF with any microphone I have owned but your mileage may vary.
Different matter I suppose, since it is not true NOS, but...
I really like running a modified NOS with the 30cm NOS spacing and a smaller angle, say ~75 degrees, in instances when you might want to run hypers, but only have cards at your disposal. The smaller included angle cuts out some of the room nastiness and gives you a more PA-direct sound, and the wider spacing compared to say DIN helps preserve the soundstage which would normally be diminished by reducing the angle from 90 degrees to 75.
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thanks for the clarification, very helpful! when to use NOS? i have cards and hypers
There is no right or wrong time to use NOS, I do not prefer the wide spacing of NOS or ORTF with any microphone I have owned but your mileage may vary.
Different matter I suppose, since it is not true NOS, but...
I really like running a modified NOS with the 30cm NOS spacing and a smaller angle, say ~75 degrees, in instances when you might want to run hypers, but only have cards at your disposal. The smaller included angle cuts out some of the room nastiness and gives you a more PA-direct sound, and the wider spacing compared to say DIN helps preserve the soundstage which would normally be diminished by reducing the angle from 90 degrees to 75.
I do this all the time too, especially in less than ideal circumstances. I think this is the type of thing where it is good to expirement and adapt to your location, the room, acoustics, stage set-up, etc.
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One night I went to a bar where some buddies were playing and did an experiment, fully intending that the end product was not usable except as an experiment... I would do things like run X/Y for 2 minutes, then try to switch it to DINa, then after 2 minutes of that, go to ORTF or NOS or DIN, or whatever. Keep notes of what you are doing so when you listen to it at home you will know. The result of that test was that I like NOS with my Nak300s. Another time I took 3 Naks with my MX100 mixer, 2 cards and an Omni mix, and tried different amounts of Omni... again keeping track of where I had the knobs set. To me that "wasted" evening was a great learning experience.
At Wanee last week I ran split Omnis for the first time... on one of the opening acts which I wasn't too concerned about. Then I switched back to "my old standby" mode for the rest of the show. Later I listened to the results. I like the sound of the split omnis, and will try it again sometime.
The point.... experiment and decide for yourself. Yes, these setup patterns have some theory behind them, but it's YOUR tape. Do what sounds good to you.
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anymore i run hypers PAS(pointed at stacks) and about DIN/DINa spacing. after taping many years i have learned one thing: there is no correct config before knowing the room....I have had the best luck indoors when PAS/20cm spacing or less.....dont be constricted to just a few options, every venue is different and therefore every room config is different...
Bean
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anymore i run hypers PAS(pointed at stacks) and about DIN/DINa spacing. after taping many years i have learned one thing: there is no correct config before knowing the room....I have had the best luck indoors when PAS/20cm spacing or less.....dont be constricted to just a few options, every venue is different and therefore every room config is different...
Bean
I do this too for PA action, but I tend to point at "just outside" of stacks most times (maybe I'd call it PAS+, LOL). I feel doing that still keeps the R pa completely within the R mic's hyper pattern, and the L pa still within the L mic's hyper pattern, but it helps to slightly attenuate (more than straight PAS) the R mic picks up off the L pa and what the L mic picks up the R pa, which can help pick up a little more of the stereo seperation (if any) that's coming off the PA.
But I'm all for trying different stuff. I find I run DINA cards at 90 and DINA hypers PAS+ a lot from the sweet spot b/c it's easy to run with a Vert Bar and my 480s, but I run closely split omnis and cards xy a lot when stage lip or on stage, and J-Disc omnis for some acoustic stuff. For some reason the angle of ORTF has never been that pleasing to my ears, but that probably has more to do with the music I tend to tape I guess? Or maybe just my preference...
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anymore i run hypers PAS(pointed at stacks) and about DIN/DINa spacing. after taping many years i have learned one thing: there is no correct config before knowing the room....I have had the best luck indoors when PAS/20cm spacing or less.....dont be constricted to just a few options, every venue is different and therefore every room config is different...
Bean
I do this too for PA action, but I tend to point at "just outside" of stacks most times (maybe I'd call it PAS+, LOL). I feel doing that still keeps the R pa completely within the R mic's hyper pattern, and the L pa still within the L mic's hyper pattern, but it helps to slightly attenuate (more than straight PAS) the R mic picks up off the L pa and what the L mic picks up the R pa, which can help pick up a little more of the stereo seperation (if any) that's coming off the PA.
But I'm all for trying different stuff. I find I run DINA cards at 90 and DINA hypers PAS+ a lot from the sweet spot b/c it's easy to run with a Vert Bar and my 480s, but I run closely split omnis and cards xy a lot when stage lip or on stage, and J-Disc omnis for some acoustic stuff. For some reason the angle of ORTF has never been that pleasing to my ears, but that probably has more to do with the music I tend to tape I guess? Or maybe just my preference...
thats what i meant, pointed at the outside of the stacks, maybe PAOS? but indoors that works really well. outdoors i tend to run DIN/DINa in the sweet spot with cards or hypers(the many times i have ran hypers at festivals FOB the tapes are some of the most well balanced and best sounding tapes ive made). moedown 2004 is a great example. i ran hypers in DINa>v3>jb3 FOB 3ft ROC and the tapes rock. the hypers cut dfown on some of the heavy bass while FOB and also cut down on any chatter that MIGHT be present in the section FOB there. so dont rule out hypers outdoors. i think the more focused yet wide and natural soundstage of the ck63 hypers works VERY well outdoors. in fact i dont run my cards much AT ALL anymore. just onstage and sometimes FOB or outdoors depending.
but back to mic configs. every mic/venue/etc has many variables, and some mics sound alot better than other mics when you are trying ORTF. if their off-axis response isnt that great, youre tape is gonna suffer AND have alot of chatter in most places.....trial and error is the way to go. but personally from me to you and after taping a long time, i would suggest running DIN or DINa and maybe adjust the angle of the mics if needed and you have a pretty foolproof setup that is about as consistent as it gets in my book. just adjust angle depending on room layout and spacing is the least important of the two if you are in a decent room. if you are in a complete shithole and dont know if jesus could even pull a decent tape, run X/Y and point it towards to center of the stage or just run X/Y and do a stack tape on one speaker, poiting the pair of mics in XY at the center of one speaker and relatively close to it, but not too close that its gonna distort your mics... that will at least pull you a crisp tape, not much imaging but def better than nothing.....
that should get you started
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thanks for the clarification, very helpful! when to use NOS? i have cards and hypers
NOS sounds excellent with sub cards
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thanks for the clarification, very helpful! when to use NOS? i have cards and hypers
NOS sounds excellent with sub cards
Word my brother!
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thanks for the clarification, very helpful! when to use NOS? i have cards and hypers
NOS sounds excellent with sub cards
QFT
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damnit..... I need to pick up another 43 before bonnaroo. :-\
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damnit..... I need to pick up another 43 before bonnaroo. :-\
mmmmmm sub cards outdoors
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