Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: darktrain on June 05, 2007, 03:57:01 PM
-
In doing some testing with H120 and setting the Level range i noticed that the max range is 0 and min -30 and after doing some sound tests it seems that the best recordings(clearest) are those that are hovering right at that 0 mark or the very end of the meter, and those that are under seem a little "cloudy", and i have the agc set to off, am i missing something or is this the best way to record or do you guys clean that up in post? Or should i just tighten the range of the meter to like -15 to 0?
-
you are right....i switched the levelmeter range from -40db(left) to 0dB(right).
i would use AGC-safety all time.
set l+r gain to +15dB for concerts and AGC does the rest and enjoy the show.
levels will be as hot as possible with AGC-safety.
-
The problem with AGC is that you get 'pumping" as the gain goes up and down according to the sound level. I like no AGC and then bring up the sound level with ReplayGain in the FLAC stage. YMMV 8)
-
The problem with AGC is that you get 'pumping" as the gain goes up and down according to the sound level. I like no AGC and then bring up the sound level with ReplayGain in the FLAC stage. YMMV 8)
<RANT>Will you guys PLEASE stop telling nonsense about the rockbox AGC-Safety feature? PLEASE. For the last time: rockbox AGC-Safety DOES NOT increase gain, it only decreases gain if the signal gets too hot, just like any sensible taper would do during manual gain control. You can even set its sensitivity (speed) so it won't respond to short peaks.</RANT>
I'm sorry, I just coudn't take it any more.
-
The problem with AGC is that you get 'pumping" as the gain goes up and down according to the sound level. I like no AGC and then bring up the sound level with ReplayGain in the FLAC stage. YMMV 8)
<RANT>Will you guys PLEASE stop telling nonsense about the rockbox AGC-Safety feature? PLEASE. For the last time: rockbox AGC-Safety DOES NOT increase gain, it only decreases gain if the signal gets too hot, just like any sensible taper would do during manual gain control. You can even set its sensitivity (speed) so it won't respond to short peaks.</RANT>
I'm sorry, I just coudn't take it any more.
YES PETUR, thx for clearing things up ;).
Maybe "AGC-safety" should be renamed to "safety-clip" for NOT confusing people who know AGC as "pumping" feature ;) from other recording machines.
the word "AGC" is simply misleading people who don´t know rockbox.
I always use the "saftey-clip" for recording shows ;) it´s great!
-
Arni, how does those +15dB work? is it really enough? I find it a bit conservative, but maybe I'm wrong...I haven't used that feature yet and want to be sure what level should be best for normal rock shows (let's say the cure, interpol, franz ferdinand, editors and similar bands), I have applied more gain than that without getting distortion in the past...
I prefer change levels manually, but I want to give a try to this AGC-Safety feature, looks great set the levels once and forget you're taping :)
-
Arni, how does those +15dB work? is it really enough? I find it a bit conservative, but maybe I'm wrong...I haven't used that feature yet and want to be sure what level should be best for normal rock shows (let's say the cure, interpol, franz ferdinand, editors and similar bands), I have applied more gain than that without getting distortion in the past...
I prefer change levels manually, but I want to give a try to this AGC-Safety feature, looks great set the levels once and forget you're taping :)
i taped red hot chili peppers and started with +20dB for l+r gain....after the show levels were at +9dB each....so "safety-clip" reduced levels to +9db.
of course the sensitivity of your mics must be taken into consideration ;)....using 4.7k modded mics result in more gain needed from the internal or external preamp.
my figures are based on MM-HLSC-1 cardioids without any MODs used with a 9V battery box.
usually +15db should be a good starter for loud rockshows in big indoor arenas.
in smaller clubs i always start with +20db.
be aware, the analoge gain-stage ends at +24.0 dB, any higher gain is digital and really noisy ;).
that´s why i set my "AGC-max" level to +24.0 dB.=>AGC-max setting can be found by pushing the joystick all the way down several times in recording screen until you see "AGC-max" or similar.
-
thanks, man :)
thanks for the tip about the 4.7 mod, i do have a pair with it and I didn't even think more gain will be needed ::) not a problem if you set levels manually, but maybe a problem if you go with the safety-clip.
I was aware about the analoge/digital gain, but I'll set it right now to don't forget it ;D
-
usually +15db should be a good starter for loud rockshows in big indoor arenas.
in smaller clubs i always start with +20db.
be aware, the analoge gain-stage ends at +24.0 dB, any higher gain is digital and really noisy ;).
that´s why i set my "AGC-max" level to +24.0 dB.=>AGC-max setting can be found by pushing the joystick all the way down several times in recording screen until you see "AGC-max" or similar.
I never go above +15dB (unless my pre-amp is already at max) because it gets noisy above. So I set my levels conservative enough so that it mostly ends up between 5 and 15
IIUC, AGC-max isn't used in the safety mode because it doesn't increase gain, remember ;)
-
Can anybody help me out here at all??
I'm a n00b to iriver h120 (previously used Hi-MD). On my MD I used to just set the manual meter to around 24-26/30 going line-in with a 9v battery box.
I don't understand all this talk of db settings. I understand the AGC, it basically stops clipping right? Should I have this on to tape Metal/hard rock bands??
Thanks,
Simon.
-
Can anybody help me out here at all??
I'm a n00b to iriver h120 (previously used Hi-MD). On my MD I used to just set the manual meter to around 24-26/30 going line-in with a 9v battery box.
I don't understand all this talk of db settings. I understand the AGC, it basically stops clipping right? Should I have this on to tape Metal/hard rock bands??
Thanks,
Simon.
install rockbox (www.rockbox.org) on your iriver.
yes, use "AGC-safety" only and set levels to +20dB for l+r gain, then start the recording, activate HOLD button and enjoy the show. ;).
-
Can anybody help me out here at all??
I'm a n00b to iriver h120 (previously used Hi-MD). On my MD I used to just set the manual meter to around 24-26/30 going line-in with a 9v battery box.
I don't understand all this talk of db settings. I understand the AGC, it basically stops clipping right? Should I have this on to tape Metal/hard rock bands??
Thanks,
Simon.
install rockbox (www.rockbox.org) on your iriver.
yes, use "AGC-safety" only and set levels to +20dB for l+r gain, then start the recording, activate HOLD button and enjoy the show. ;).
Thanks for the reply. I have installed Rockbox already, haven't spent much time as of yet fiddling with settings but I will do soon.
Whats the +20db for l+r gain mean??
-
Thanks for the reply. I have installed Rockbox already, haven't spent much time as of yet fiddling with settings but I will do soon.
Whats the +20db for l+r gain mean??
It's the gain you can configure in rockbox (in the recording screen). You can set l+r together or each separate (move the cursor up/down and you'll see what I mean). All other stuff is set in the recording settings screen.
Some stuff like settings of the peakmeter can be found in general settings because it also changes the playback peakmeters
-
Thanks +t
-
IIUC, AGC-max isn't used in the safety mode because it doesn't increase gain, remember ;)
It seems that setting AGC-max affects how much the input can turned up by the user as well. Seemingly capping input levels at a user selected point.
-
It seems that setting AGC-max affects how much the input can turned up by the user as well. Seemingly capping input levels at a user selected point.
Never too old to learn ;)
I've never used that option, good to know....
-
It seems that setting AGC-max affects how much the input can turned up by the user as well. Seemingly capping input levels at a user selected point.
Never too old to learn ;)
I've never used that option, good to know....
yes, when "AGC-max" is set to ie. +24dB you can´t set the gain for l+r channel to any value higher than +24dB. rockbox will immediately correct gain to the set max. value of 24dB when you try to set gain to ie. +26dB.
;)
-
I gotta admit, i'm safety clip stupid. I just dont get how it works (other than its not your normal agc crap). I have my meters set to -20 to 0. So, if I'm using safety clip, what should I set the db gain to and why? Just trying to understand the coorelation between the two. I like pushing my levels as close to 0 as possible.
-
I gotta admit, i'm safety clip stupid. I just dont get how it works (other than its not your normal agc crap). I have my meters set to -20 to 0. So, if I'm using safety clip, what should I set the db gain to and why? Just trying to understand the coorelation between the two. I like pushing my levels as close to 0 as possible.
i usually set l+r gain to +20 or +15dB before the concert starts.
AGC-max to +24dB but that´s not important when u start a concert with +20dB(and +24dB would be the max. gain possible).
AGC-safety will REDUCE levels as soon as clipping might occur.
example:
the band starts playing ...your l+r gain is set to ie. +20dB.
AGC safety will reduce gain immediately to ie. +15dB. why? because +20dB would have resulted in clipping levels.
AGC safety will NOT increase gain again when a loud opener is followed by a ballad and that´s GOOD ;).
you still can set levels by hand although AGC-safety is activated...AGC-safety only kicks in when levels might clip or actually clip(though clipping is NOT audible when playing back your recording) ;) except you started with +40dB instead of +20dB for l+r gain.
just play with it and record at home from your stereo and you will see whats happening on the recording screen ;).
it´s not hard to understand, really! ;)
try to set l+r gain to +30dB when AGC-max is set to +24dB.
you´ll see it´s NOT POSSIBLE ;) as +24dB is the max. gain and no higher gain is possible ;).
l+r gain is the same as the 1 to 30 gain for MD recorders. it tells you the amount your signal is amplified by the internal preamp.
levels show the recorded signal, of course 0dB on the levelmeter should be maximum for MD recorders.
on rockboxed irivers you don´t see figures on the levelmeter....bouncing from left to right.
you only know that levels clip when they hit the right border of the recording screen(and clipping light flashes if activated).
thats when AGC-safety kicks in and reduces gain for preventing levels from clipping.
-
So, basically no matter what you set your levels to, the AGC will lower the level if its too loud?? and once its lowered it enough to prevent clipping it will stay at that level for the rest of the gig (unless it starts clipping again)??
But as you say, its better to start off with maybe +15 or +20.
I'm beginning to understand now. Thanks for that long explanation Arni +t :)
-
So, basically no matter what you set your levels to, the AGC will lower the level if its too loud?? and once its lowered it enough to prevent clipping it will stay at that level for the rest of the gig (unless it starts clipping again)??
exactly as you said! ;)
-
Thanks a bunch for answering that question Arni, makes perfect sense now....and yes, I will definitely test it :D
-
Yup, thanks to all who helped me too. Can't wait to get this baby taping!! :D
-
also check this thread where i explain AGC-safety with pics of my H140...for those who found it yet...;)
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85618.msg1140063.html#new