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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: ts on June 13, 2007, 01:25:28 PM
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Probably around 300 people, but most will be there for reasons other than the music. I'm expecting a loud crowd, which got me thinking. 24bit will be overkill and maybe even use hypers :-\. Any thoughts?
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Probably around 300 people, but most will be there for reasons other than the music. I'm expecting a loud crowd, which got me thinking. 24bit will be overkill and maybe even use hypers :-\. Any thoughts?
without knowing more... yes and yes! Get as close to the sound source you can, point hypers at pa's/monitors whatever, and run as high as you can away from the motormouths.. the 16 vs 24 bit thing is open to opinion of course..
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I think the whole "hypers to cut the crowd" thing is a bit of a myth...
Hypers have local lobe that picks up quite a bit of chat IMO...
Hyper
(http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/studio-microphones/images/hypercardioid_small.jpg)
Card
(http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/studio-microphones/images/cardioid_small.jpg)
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I think the whole "hypers to cut the crowd" thing is a bit of a myth...
Hypers have local lobe that picks up quite a bit of chat IMO...
Hyper
(http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/studio-microphones/images/hypercardioid_small.jpg)
Card
(http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/studio-microphones/images/cardioid_small.jpg)
It seems to me that no capsule is gonna do miracles, so I don't think it's a myth as much as it's having realistic expectations about what you can expect from the capsule. I mean, the difference in pickup patterns is subtle right? So, my question back to you, roving sign, is if you don't use hypers in that situation, then when WOULD you use them and why bother having different sets of mic capsules at all? I'm not challenging your answer so much as just asking, what's the point in having different patterns if it's a myth about cutting out crowd noise? The reason I ask is that it's pretty obvious from most diagrams (including the ones you linked) that the pattern of a hyper is a little bit skinnier than a card.
To answer my own questions that I posed above, my personal thoughts are that there are subtle differences provided by the different patterns and you probably have to decide for yourself through experimentation what capsules perform best in which situations, but you can probably use the 'rules of thumb' as a good starting point...and the 'rule of thumb' for a hyper (that I've heard) is to use it when you're back away from the stage a little ways and when you expect lots of background noise from off-axis sound sources.
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I find the polar pattern differences to be very discernable. In a small club setting, if I am there early enough, and in for soundcheck, I will try several of the patterns, as well as directional mic changes, to hear what sounds best. While hypers do have that small rear lobe, the difference between hypers and say subcards in the forward direction is enormous, especially in an overly chatty room. It also depends on distance from stage, spread of PA, and how many instuments are actually going through the PA vs. just amps on stage. The variables are always changing, so I adjust accordingly, and having the multi-pattern option is extremely useful.
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In my local bar about this side I have come to conclusion that hypers ran DIN as high as possible work best for me. I have tried XY w/ cards and DIN w/ cards but I still think the hypers help because I am off center (8'(L)DFC 25' back) and the room is boomy. Experiment w/ a couple different set up between sets until ya find what works for you.
Peace
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In my local bar about this side I have come to conclusion that hypers ran DIN as high as possible work best for me. I have tried XY w/ cards and DIN w/ cards but I still think the hypers help because I am off center (8'(L)DFC 25' back) and the room is boomy. Experiment w/ a couple different set up between sets until ya find what works for you.
Peace
This is me exactly, as it should, we both run the same mics...
I find my chit-chat level is the same whether card or hyper, the only diff is card is a lot boomier...
I like Hypers at 90deg. Run then as high as is reasonable.
Terry
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For me it is simple. All I have is two sets of cardioids and a strereo and a set of omnidirectionals. I use the cardioids when I want to take the room out of the mix. I use the omnidircetionals when I want to get room acoustics. For amp'ed bands I just use the cardioids in a DIN setup aimed at the loudspeakers. I run them at about 8 - 10' to get above the chatter, but it is always there. I do not record "hot" and allow myself at least 10dB headroom, more like 12dB. I can always add it in post. Kind of like adding salt to a stew: you can always add more, but it is the devil's own job to get it out. ;o)
8)
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I haven't done this myself, but it is recommended by a seasoned taper I know... pick one stack or the other, and close mic that stack. Someday I want to bring extra long cables and close mic 2 stacks... involves getting there early and taping all the cables up...
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See if you can get some mics on stage, or at the lip. This will minimize the effect of a chatty crowd IME.
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a couple of my favorite local spots have a light bar 10 or so feet in front of the stage that I clamp to... anything like that in this place? gets the mics above the crowd, dfc, and pretty close to the stacks. sweet tapes from that type of spot.
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I have found that the polar pattern of the card reduces the crowd more evenly than hyper or shotgun. When I run my cards the crowd chatter is reduced fairly well. When I run hyper, and esspecially shotgun I find that the crowd is reduced extreamly well, but the rear lobe will pick up someones conversation behind me perfectly. So instead of having a little bit of overall crowd noise with the cards I get one perfectly clear and annoying conversation with the shotguns....
So, if there is a bunch of talkers on my sides and not behind, I will run a very directional capsule. If there are just people behind me I run cards. Outdoors I run my stand in the stratosphere with the shotguns...
Lots of variables in this hobby. Room acoustics, PA, mix, mics, pres, recoreders, crowd, environment, playback, taste, etc... That is why this hobby rocks! There is no one perfect rig, perfect placement and perfect sound guy. Every day at every show you are faced with something different. Good luck out there tapers!