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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: loud noises on June 19, 2007, 07:41:35 PM
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Whats the difference in sound quality?
Also, I'm considering purchasing the FR2-LE but am worried I will need to use
a lot of additional equipment on-site (not just the mics and the recorder) and
that would affect my desired setup (confined "stealthitude").
Any advice on the Fostex line of field recorders....?
I have a 5-600$ budget for a recording device.
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Hi-Hi loud one. My first post, but I'm an old dog having taped GDead a couple of times 20 years ago. Taped on cassette tape. Sony portable-AKG C-33 stereo mic.
Done some classical music recording on location, and for the last 12 years in film dept. at a college. I just bought one of this FR-2LEs and the sound quality is very good. I believe the mic pres have 40db of gain, with trim pots to cut them down, i.e., adjustable pad. Mic amp clip LEDs. Minimal metering. -48,-24,-12,-6,-3,OL.
Headphone amp has hiss, but this doesn't end up in the recording. Full +48 phantom. User friendly menu. Can only record in the FSbit depth that you format the CF card to. So, if you want to record 44.1K16bit and you have already formated the card to 48kK24bit, you need to reformat. I just bought a Tamiya type RC 4200mah NiMH battery, and I think it's going to run this thing for 10 hours. I'm using external Phantom BTW.
Have used the Fostex FR-2 also. Fostex is right there in the location sound film stuff, and their service is top notch.
Right now I'm using it with a Senn MKH60, Schoeps CMC441 and a Senn G2 wireless. Some others have said preamps on the low side.
Very interesting forum. I'm not yet used to the terms talked about here. Like, Dead Rat=Rycote Softie.
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There is more discussion about the FR2-LE, here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,62698.0.html
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Very interesting forum. I'm not yet used to the terms talked about here. Like, Dead Rat=Rycote Softie.
I've heard Dead Rat/Dead Cat for windjammers before.
Do you "pull sick tape" when you make a fine recording? ;D (that one always gets me)
Doug Oade or the board member Busman may supply preamp upgrades geared to the high SPLs and tonality of distance mic'ing in concert venues.
Doug Oade
www.oade.com
Busman
http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4941
FWIW, I run an Oade "T-modded" FR-2 and am quite happy with it.
I am considering a stock FR-2LE for a backup rig.
If more gain is needed, I'd probably opt for a Mini-MP or Sonosax.
That's later in the year, in any event.
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No haven't heard "pulled sick tape"
I actually think the FR-2LE pres would be fine the way they are for loud venues.
Cheers to all.
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The FR-2LE will sound great. Compared to the FR-2 and other
more expensive recorders, you'll give up digital input and output,
and the ability to record at rates above 24/96. To its credit,
the FR-2LE has a great solution for a rechargable battery.
The FR-2LE also is not as intuitive to use as other devices.
What I mean is I can operate a recorder like the Marantz PMD660
without opening the manual. But I couldn't work the FR-2LE without
some study. You learn to work with the machine after a while.
If you think you might be interested in a preamp upgrade at
a later date, it's advisable to purchase the stock machine from
Oade Brothers www.oade.com They offer competitive pricing,
and won't upgrade machines they didn't sell in the first place.
Flintstone
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So if I was to get the FR2-LE for 599$ to recorder anywhere from small venue funk
shows to bigger venues (both with a lot of crowd chatter....New Orleans),
I should just get it straight from Oade with the super mod. Is the super mod worth 200$.??
Thanks for your responses. This is a big decision for me ATM.
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So if I was to get the FR2-LE for 599$ to recorder anywhere from small venue funk
shows to bigger venues (both with a lot of crowd chatter....New Orleans),
I should just get it straight from Oade with the super mod. Is the super mod worth 200$.??
Thanks for your responses. This is a big decision for me ATM.
if you dont already have a nice pre-amp, get it modded. you live in nola?
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yeah I have nothing....starting from scratch.
Yes I do live in nola and goto a lot of shows
and figured I might as well tape them since
I don't think they get taped (At least the majority of them).
Thanks for your advice.
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yeah I have nothing....starting from scratch.
Yes I do live in nola and goto a lot of shows
and figured I might as well tape them since
I don't think they get taped (At least the majority of them).
Thanks for your advice.
go for the mod and be done. do you have mics? me and a few others hit up nola as much as possible, i am only 3hrs north. join us on the dirty south thread in the team board section. we will take good care of you. heres your first +t. (dont ask)
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Why do you think it needs to be modded?
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Why do you think it needs to be modded?
I'm guessing for this reason:
Hi! It is not bad but uses the same op amps as the M1, TCD100 and Stock 660 among
others use. 30 cent JRC 2122s and JRC 2115s occupy the signal path. They also use
low grade caps in the signal path and lots of them. In short, it measures well by 1930's
audio standards (THD+N) but sounds like cloudy coffee. I think it will be ok for interviews
and the like but not so good for "ear critical" applications like music, ambient/FX and
nature sounds. The good thing is it has room to work with so I know what I can do with it.
So far no bad news in users reports or signs of early failure or manufacturing problems so
I feel good that it will be a solid performer. If it had Digi I/O it would be a giant killer!
Peace...Doug
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,62698.135.html <-the thread
So my question is, is the super mod quality? Did it fix the "cloudy coffee"? Will it compliment
good mics? I have heard that your rig is as good as your weakest link... Is the Fostex FR2-LE
w/ super mod going to be the weakest link most of the time?
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I'm guessing for this reason:
Hi! It is not bad but uses the same op amps as the M1, TCD100 and Stock 660 among
others use. 30 cent JRC 2122s and JRC 2115s occupy the signal path. They also use
low grade caps in the signal path and lots of them. In short, it measures well by 1930's
audio standards (THD+N) but sounds like cloudy coffee. I think it will be ok for interviews
and the like but not so good for "ear critical" applications like music, ambient/FX and
nature sounds. The good thing is it has room to work with so I know what I can do with it.
So far no bad news in users reports or signs of early failure or manufacturing problems so
I feel good that it will be a solid performer. If it had Digi I/O it would be a giant killer!
Peace...Doug
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,62698.135.html <-the thread
I was a little confused about the above statement, so for clarity's sake: the above quote is from a correspondence with Doug someone posted in the other thread, here (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,62698.msg1122004.html#msg1122004).
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Why do you think it needs to be modded?
I'm guessing for this reason:
Hi! It is not bad but uses the same op amps as the M1, TCD100 and Stock 660 among
others use. 30 cent JRC 2122s and JRC 2115s occupy the signal path. They also use
low grade caps in the signal path and lots of them. In short, it measures well by 1930's
audio standards (THD+N) but sounds like cloudy coffee. I think it will be ok for interviews
and the like but not so good for "ear critical" applications like music, ambient/FX and
nature sounds. The good thing is it has room to work with so I know what I can do with it.
So far no bad news in users reports or signs of early failure or manufacturing problems so
I feel good that it will be a solid performer. If it had Digi I/O it would be a giant killer!
Peace...Doug
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,62698.135.html <-the thread
So my question is, is the super mod quality? Did it fix the "cloudy coffee"? Will it compliment
good mics? I have heard that your rig is as good as your weakest link... Is the Fostex FR2-LE
w/ super mod going to be the weakest link most of the time?
I would say get it modded right off teh bat, that way once you run it unmodded and decide you DO want it modded, youre gonna have to send back anyway. I have not heard the Oade mod on the FR2LE, but every other mod Doug has done has sounded good to my and ALOT of other folks ears. We tend to trust his mods quite highly. I would def suggest getting it modded, and once you get a decent pair of mics you'll def know where the extra $$ went. The chain of cammands IMO for pulling a great tape are:
1. Location of mics
2. Mic Configuration
3. Room mix(I list this 3rd since ALOT of times the mix was HORRIBLE live and the tapes sound WAY better than the venue did that particular night. this has actually happened MANY times)
4. Mics
5. Preamp
6. ADC (Analog-to-Digital Converter)
7. Cables
8. Recorder (Bit-Bucket)
once the mix and location are good, its all down to the mics/preamp :)
I run an all-in-one box(Sound Devices 722) and the combo of my mics>722 is just what I have been looking for. So my setup/teardown is quite quick these days :)
The Modded FR2LE would be an all-in-one box as well. getting the signal path upgraded leads to recordings that are more 'open' and natural and much more crisp and clear. Thats the way most of dougs mods are anyway. He also had Warm and Transparent and Presence mods for the Edirol UA-5 a few years ago. diff flavors are always nice :)
What mics are you planning on running? If you spend this $$ on the FR2LE and get it modded, I wouldnt want to have a cheap pair of 100 dollar mics in the signal chain, because the mod will expose the limitations of the cheap mics real quick since the op amp upgrades and all that will make the response of the preamps much faster, thus showing the limitations of cheap mics real quick. a decent mic in front of it tho will yield much better results since a better mic has a better transient response and dynamics and all that technical jazz ;D
maybe try a pair of Studio Projects C-4's for a decent cheaper pair of Small Diaphram condensers....There are a few options.First off, what is your mic budget? we def need to know that first off......
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Well, my mic budget is $0 after I buy the fr2-le mod(if i do...) but my rich, africa-living friend has a mic budget of 2-4k (I believe).
I don't know whether he wants to buy his own recorder <Thats where the question of the FR2-LE/mod limitations come in).
I goto a lot of shows in nola and he wants to tape those and I'm sure any festivals he goes to when he is not working in Africa.
I'm gonna push some neumann's to him but I don't know what he wants to do yet...kind of a waiting game ATM. The only mic
I personally own is a Sony ECM-DS70P. Pretty good little mic, seems a bit hot though (but I don't know much about mics or recording).
As far as "Bit Bucket", I was under the impression that if you ARE running high-priced/quality mics like neumann's, a poor recorder will limit
your fidelity.
Also, 5 & 6 on your list are 2 things I would not want to have on-site, which is why I'm asking about the quality of the Oade mod, hoping
I won't have to carry additional gear.
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1. Location of mics
2. Mic Configuration
3. Room mix(I list this 3rd since ALOT of times the mix was HORRIBLE live and the tapes sound WAY better than the venue did that particular night. this has actually happened MANY times)
4. Mics
5. Preamp
6. ADC (Analog-to-Digital Converter)
7. Cables
8. Recorder (Bit-Bucket)
As far as "Bit Bucket", I was under the impression that if you ARE running high-priced/quality mics like neumann's, a poor recorder will limit
your fidelity.
Also, 5 & 6 on your list are 2 things I would not want to have on-site, which is why I'm asking about the quality of the Oade mod, hoping
I won't have to carry additional gear.
well, in reference to Bean's list, that list is of functions that must be performed (for a digital recording).
in many cases, the pre-amp and ADC (#5 & 6) are contained within the recorder. in that case, the quality of recorder is important, because you will be using the recorder's internal pre-amp and internal ADC. when people around here say "bit-bucket", they are talking about a recorder that accepts a digital input from an external ADC. in that case, the recorder imparts no sound to the actual recording, because all it is doing is writing the digital input to a file. i.e. when I sold my M-Audio Microtrack and bought a Tascam HD-P2, the actual sound of my recordings didn't change, because the only function of both decks for me was to record an S/PDIF data stream from my V3. the sole purpose of the upgrade was the HD-P2 is a much more reliable recorder.
in your case, the oade mods would upgrade the internal pre-amp. many people on this board think that the Oade pre-amp upgrades in the past have helped a lot, relative to the stock pre-amp in many pieces of gear. although at this point, I have not heard any actual recordings with an Oade mod FR2-LE (and for that matter, I don't know if anyone has), so any talk about these mods is speculation based on positive experiences with oade mods on other gear in the past.
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How's this sound...
The FR2LE Super MOD (Oade or Busman...?)
Rode NT4 (A pair or should i get an NT4/5 mixed pair?)
And thats it, other than trying to understand the dimensions
of the room/volume of the music on that particular night.
Any suggestions?
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How's this sound...
The FR2LE Super MOD (Oade or Busman...?)
Rode NT4 (A pair or should i get an NT4/5 mixed pair?)
And thats it, other than trying to understand the dimensions
of the room/volume of the music on that particular night.
Any suggestions?
I've never heard a Rode recording that I thought sounded good, and you won't see many people using them for distance taping. I would go with Studio Project C4s for a low budget and Peluso CEMC6s for a medium budget; Obviously mic choice is an opinion but both of those mics will make nice taps into an Oade mod box.
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How's this sound...
The FR2LE Super MOD (Oade or Busman...?)
Rode NT4 (A pair or should i get an NT4/5 mixed pair?)
And thats it, other than trying to understand the dimensions
of the room/volume of the music on that particular night.
Any suggestions?
I've never heard a Rode recording that I thought sounded good, and you won't see many people using them for distance taping. I would go with Studio Project C4s for a low budget and Peluso CEMC6s for a medium budget; Obviously mic choice is an opinion but both of those mics will make nice taps into an Oade mod box.
agreed 100% bud! C4's or Peluso's will both sound good and wont break the bank. the Peluso's are def nicer, but the sound of the c4's is right up there IMO. Can't go wrong with either IMO. Check out Team Pittsburgh's latest moe show from 6/23/2007 on archive.org Here is a link to mine. Just click the 'Check for other copies' link at the top of the archive page where it lists band name, venue, city, state. and it will bring up all 5 sources. Among them are:
1. AKG 483 > Sound Devices 722 (my rig)
2. SP C4's > Digi-Mod UA5 > JB3
3. AKG 391 > Digi-Mod UA5 > JB3
4. Nak CM 1000(48v Modded) > Lunatec V3 > JB3
5. Teac(Cards) > PS-2 > AD-20 > DAP-1
Those are mostly budget mics except for the 483's(about 1200/pair) and the nak cm1000's(around 1000/pair i think) and I think every recording stands on its own and holds its ground quitye well. I like the c4>digi-modua5>jb3 from Nick Michaels rig. Its a relatively cheaper setup but the full sound from it is spectacular. It is right up there with my recording IMO. It has a touch more lowend, but overall sounds nice and phat and full. and for a couple hundred a pair, the c4's cant be beaten IMO. Altho I do like the Peluso's sound more, stigs wasnt recording that night to have a peluso comp :(
I think either option of the c4's/peluso's will make you happy.