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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Lou on June 30, 2007, 10:36:17 PM
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I'm going to be recording some rock concerts for the first time this summer. I just bought an Edirol R-09. I'm just going to use the internal mics on the thing. (Yes I know, external mics give the best possible result. I don't want to pay for that, and I want to keep things simple. Please don't tell me that the solution is to buy external mics.)
I have noticed that a lot of Edirol R-09 recordings with the internal mics come out a little dull and quiet. What settings would be the best to avoid a dull sound? I'm not expecting the same quality as I'd get with external mics, but I just don't want it to sound dull, muddy and wimpy. Without any advice, I was going to put the settings on AGC off, ext mic stereo, low cut on, mic gain low. I'm also going to record at 24 bit, 48 Khz.
Is this the way to go? Specifically is it better to have mic gain on low and the input level higher, or mic gain on high and the input level low? Any tips on avoiding a dull sound? My seats are where they are, nothing to change that. What's the best way to hold the recorder given that I can't really hold the thing above my head or else I'll a) block someone's view and b) get caught recording. Thanks.
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II have noticed that a lot of Edirol R-09 recordings with the internal mics come out a little dull and quiet. What settings would be the best to avoid a dull sound? I'm not expecting the same quality as I'd get with external mics, but I just don't want it to sound dull, muddy and wimpy. Without any advice, I was going to put the settings on AGC off, ext mic stereo, low cut on, mic gain low. I'm also going to record at 24 bit, 48 Khz.
Those are exactly the settings I would use... the ext mic stereo doesn't really matter though.
I think the muddy sound comes from having the recorder physically too low. Ever notice that if you are at a show where everyone is standing, and you sit down to take a break (surrounded by standing people), it sounds muffled? No direct path between your ears and the PA, you are relying on echos. I think if you have it on your knee while sitting this is what you will get. Try to get the mics up to head high. That's just speculation, with a little experience to back it up.
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I'm going to be recording some rock concerts for the first time this summer. I just bought an Edirol R-09. I'm just going to use the internal mics on the thing. (Yes I know, external mics give the best possible result. I don't want to pay for that, and I want to keep things simple. Please don't tell me that the solution is to buy external mics.)
I have noticed that a lot of Edirol R-09 recordings with the internal mics come out a little dull and quiet. What settings would be the best to avoid a dull sound? I'm not expecting the same quality as I'd get with external mics, but I just don't want it to sound dull, muddy and wimpy. Without any advice, I was going to put the settings on AGC off, ext mic stereo, low cut on, mic gain low. I'm also going to record at 24 bit, 48 Khz.
Is this the way to go? Specifically is it better to have mic gain on low and the input level higher, or mic gain on high and the input level low? Any tips on avoiding a dull sound? My seats are where they are, nothing to change that. What's the best way to hold the recorder given that I can't really hold the thing above my head or else I'll a) block someone's view and b) get caught recording. Thanks.
Please, do not use the Low Cut thing :P! Unless you want to end up with a thin and distorted sounding tape.
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Put low cut to off? Then won't the bass be ridiculously loud with a lot of low-end distortion?
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Put low cut to off? Then won't the bass be ridiculously loud with a lot of low-end distortion?
Only if it was ridiculously loud with a lot of low-end distortion where you recorded it. In my opinion, low cut is only useful when you are using mics that are not up to the task of recording loud, bass-heavy sounds and then it's only useful if you prefer thin, distorted recordings to full spectrum distorted recordings.
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Put low cut to off? Then won't the bass be ridiculously loud with a lot of low-end distortion?
Hi,
Believe me on this one. Do NOT set the Low Cut switch to On. The R-09 internal mics are not that bad, I mean, they are not terrible sounding mics. In my 3 or 4 first recordings ( not terribly loud concerts) I did not use external mics and those recordings are quite listenable.
No low-end distortion at all.
You don't want to use that Low Cut filter because they cut way too much bass. This filter will ruin your recordings. ;)
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I appreciate the advice, thanks guys.
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Besides the good advice already posted, suggest using 44.1K normal CD bit sample rate (not 48K most normal for video rate) as this makes edit for CD burn easy and potentially cleaner sounding than 48K to 44.1K software conversions.
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Don't ever run the r09 below gain setting 8 unless you have no other choice.
Below 8 will compress peaks and will distort heavy bass with some crunching.
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Sure guysonic--dithering down to 44.1 for CD burning is a second-best option. But there's a way to avoid that by burning DVDs at 24/48, which to me is optimal. If you don't like the DVD-A format, you can use either audio DVD creator or the open source Lplex to build DVD-video disks with your original recordings as PCM sound tracks. I said good-bye to CD-burning after so many years...
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Don't ever run the r09 below gain setting 8 unless you have no other choice.
Below 8 will compress peaks and will distort heavy bass with some crunching.
How did you gather this info?
Internal mics?
Mic in?
Line in?
Why 8? (8 is not unity)
I'd liek to understand this.
I record at lower than 8 all the time without issues I can hear... (?)
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(I was searching a topic that fits my question)
I would lend my Edirol R-09HR to a friend, who is really not into this hobby, still she has a shitty little recorder (can't even set input level) and recording some musical (or I dont know what kind of soft/pop music...) She'd record a piano+vocals show.
The problem is she doesn't want to "complicate" so I can't really convince her using "2 boxes + mics"
So the short question is: would you recommend her using Edirol simply with internal mics or could be ok using Edirol + ca-14 without preamp? (relatively quiet show) in this case would be ok with turn on plug in power?
I have no tests for such a case... still I want to make her realize it was sh*t what she has recorded so far.
May I add that the position of either edirol or mics probably will not be optimal...
Thanks!
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If it's a quiet show, my personal experience is that she will need a preamp in order to make the CA14s listenable - these mics are terribly low-sensitivity! That, OR use the internals with the recorder placed at her face level - the result will be slightly worse recording but with decent levels, and probably better than what she's recorded so far.
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I have the Edirol R09 HR for more than a year.
I taped several heavy metal bands like Uriah Heep or Thin Lizzy.
I do not use a battery box , not necessary !!
These are my settings:
Menu: Input Setup - Limiter/ AGC: Limiter
Low cut freq : 400 HZ
My Church Audio CA 11 : Mic (not Line in !!)
On the back side of the Edirol:
Limiter/ AGC off / on : On
Plug-in power off / on : On
Low cut off / on : On
Mic Gain L H : Low
Result : Excellent recordings
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Sorry something forgotten to tell : Input level 80 and always recording between 10 - 15 metres from the stage
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For real? That close, mic-in and level 80? That must brickwall.
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Yes, for real ! With all these settings together mentioned you don't need a pre-amp or battery box for recording with the Edirol R09 HR.
There is no distortion, no red light by peak . Just try it yourself . I don't know if it works with other recorders. I have also a Sony PCM M10.
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Thanks for the replies!
Looks like I could convince her using the full set (with preamp).
I couldnt really test, we'll see how her try turns out! :)
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Great, my friend used Edirol CA-14 (card) > CA-900 > Edirol R-09HR and got a good bootleg. She said she likes it and I wont get my gear back, ehh :D ::)
(sample)
http://www.mediafire.com/?bkjsukdkwsos4f8