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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: TNJazz on July 01, 2007, 12:03:44 AM
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OK folks, I was able to run a comp last night and here are the samples.
I was going to make it a poll, but I couldn't figure out an easy way to do it with 3 samples of 2 songs in 16 and 24 bit so feel free to make comments and guesses in any follow up posts.
The mics were beyerdynamic MC803. Mics were oriented a little higher than I wanted, but I got there late and decided to relax in the balcony. Still, they were in a pretty good position overall. They were run approximately DINa (maybe not quite, but close).
Cables (Audio Magic X-Streams) run into the Sonosax SX-M2 and then split. One side went line in to the SD 744t at 24bit/192kHz. The other side went line in to the Korg MR-1000 at 1bit/5.6mHz in DFF format.
Taking Freelunch's suggestion, I've prepared 3 samples each of two songs from the first set and processed them as follows:
The SD file was:
resampled to 24/48 in Wavelab for the 24 bit version.
resampled and dithered with UV22HR to 16/44 for the 16 bit version.
The Korg file was:
rendered to 24/192 in Audiogate, then
resampled to 24/48 in Wavelab for the 24 bit version.
resampled and dithered with UV22HR to 16/44 for the 16 bit version.
I also rendered two Korg files straight from 5.6mhz DFF to 24/48 and 16/44 respectively by using the conversion within Audiogate.
So the choices for each song are:
Korg Audiogate conversion
Korg dithered (and resampled for 16 bit)
SD dithered (and resampled for 16 bit)
I have taken the same 1:00/1:20 from each song for each version, but I have hand modified each of them slightly so they do NOT start at exactly the same sample (mainly because this would aid in identifying the Korg sources since there are two of them).
I have also shuffled them for the 24 bit versions, so what is "source A" in the 16 bit is not necessarily the same source in the 24 bit.
Yadda yadda yadda. Enough talk. Here are the samples. I'll leave them up for a few days, or until interest wanes, and then I'll post the key.
16 bit is here:
http://www.bigpurpledog.com/audio/korg_vs_744_16bit.zip (http://www.bigpurpledog.com/audio/korg_vs_744_16bit.zip)
24 bit wouldn't upload to my website for some reason, so it will only be available for a limited time. It's here:
http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJxcXluQzNWRDgwTVE9PQ (http://www.yousendit.com/download/bWJxcXluQzNWRDgwTVE9PQ)
Hopefully this is all fairly clear. :P
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This will be fun!
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Thanks for posting this. Exactly the type of information I am hoping to have as I make decision about which recorder to buy. I dont have the best playback for FLAC files so I am sure I am missing a lot in terms of fidelity and there is no compensating for middle aged hearing loss. Didn't get to sample the 24 bit samples but here is my 2 cents:
Of the 16 bit samples I prefer B in both cases. B and C are very close though, but sound different to me than A. Without invoking a lot of audio winetasting language (words are poor descriptors of the senses), both B and C were just more emotionally involving. Found my foot tapping with both while I just didn't resonate with the music in the same way with samples A on both songs. Cymbals and piano sounded better to me on B/C than they did on A...
Anxious to learn others thoughts and unlock the key
Soundoc
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On the 16 bit samples I also find B and C much more pleasing. A sounds grainy and less defined to me so I'm guessing it's the SD dithered. Between B and C I like B a tad more than C and would guess B is Korg AudioGate.
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i listened to the 16bit version.
when will the sources be posted?
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I listened to the 16 bit sources. I have no idea which one is which, but I preferred source C for its slightly more open sound over source B. B & C were very close. Source A wasn't quite as clear, especially through the lower frequencies, but it was still a good sample. All in all, I thought the differences between the three samples were pretty small.
+T for your efforts,
Chris
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i prefered B in the first group, and C in the second group (although it was a toss up between C and B).
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Sound really close to me.. I dont really hear a difference...b and c maybe a little more detailed.. Or maybe I am saying that because I read a review before I listened..
Tom
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After several more listens I have come to the following. Damn its close! I find it so close that I can postpone a DSD machine for a bit. I am sure the DSD portion is far far superior, but when converted to PCM, etc I feel the difference is very minimal. I downloaded the 24bit files FWIW. I would love to hear some classical music comps as well from this combo.
I think Source A is the SD and Sources B & C to be the Korg....but it's really just a guess.
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I need to listen to the sources when I get home, hopefully I pick them correctly ;)
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I would love to hear some classical music comps as well from this combo.
Agree. Hell, another comp in general would probably be a good idea. This particular show did not do much for me in terms of making a good comp. The sound in the room was pretty good, but the Sax added too much low end bloat for my tastes (on BOTH sources). A second set of beyer 803's that I ran straight into the 744 smoked these sources IMO.
I'm thinking the Sax is NOT a good match for the beyers.
I'll leave this for a couple more days and then reveal the comp key.
Don't look at the wav files before you listen - if you can see them it might make it easier to tell which is which (since two of them are the Korg and the only difference is the rendering method).
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Listened only to 16bit
I prefer C then A. I didn't like the B versions
Tanks for the nice comparison.
I am very curieus about the results. Don't wait to long publishing them :)
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what are you testing here, nothing imo.
many cant listen to dsd, thats there problem.
dont bring a unit designed for dsd down to 16 or 24 because many cant hear dsd.
hear the korg in its full glory and hear the sd in its full glory decimated 24.
thats the test, because many cant hear dsd, there is no test hear only a poor effort to
suggest the 2 units are even in the same league.
the test to me was to close to call, but thats not whats really happening.
spend some cash if you want in on this test,and dont be scared of the truth.
dsd screams you know like no other bitch has before.
you spend so much looking for quality and the edge, whats wrong now.
cat bite you on the dick, dick to big, problems passing oxygen to the head ?
g
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Do you troll in every DSD-related thread, or what? You simply can't be for real.
Some of the claims are that DSD, even when dithered down to redbook sounds better than a comparable PCM recording. This is what is being tested.
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i know whats on test, its relavant and so is MY view.
the test is silly for me cause dithering for me is gone.
i judge the 2 units in there full potential not dithering comp.
no need to dither anymore Gizby.
a silly test for me.
g
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OK, time to reveal the sources. Scroll down for the answers.
keep going...
keep going...
16 bit:
A = Korg Audiogate
B = 744t Wavelab resampled/dithered
C = Korg Wavelab resampled/dithered
24 bit
A - Korg Wavelab resampled
B - Korg Audiogate
C - 744T Wavelab resampled
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hi
the 16 bit samples are stille available, but the 24bit ones have vanished. I think the comparison is interesting, since I thought (like everybody else) that source A was the least appealing one, while C made my feet tap. so after all we discovered that sub-optimal dithering makes a recording sound unbalanced, less pleasing.
as a side note: why do people not seed their comparisons via torrent? this way the files could be re-seeded by other people if the interest was still there.
regards
nicola