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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Mr.Fantasy on July 20, 2007, 04:27:59 PM
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Could those with experience with the Marantz CDR 420 please post a little something something about this little piece of equipment?
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So has no one seen these?
Or is everyone busy? :)
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You probably will not get much feedback on this unit b/c CD recorders are less than ideal for field recording of loud rock & roll music.
They tend to be more prone to write errors due to the vibrations (bass) from a loud PA. While YMMV, I have never had success in the field with a CD recorder (Tascam CD-RW750), except with either acoustic music or by taking extreme precautions to isolate it from vibrations.
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And can you rec recommend an alternative?
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And can you rec recommend an alternative?
Marantz has several models. 660 (16bit)
670 (16bit) may be discontinued
671 (24bit)
or
Tascam HD-P2
or
Korg MR-1
MR-1000
or
Fostex FR-2
FR-2 LE
or
Sound Devices 702
702t
722
744t
All of these are fairly popular recorders that are discussed regularly on this board. There are others also. That was just a quick rundown off the top of my head. You can do a search for any of those models here or on the world wide web and get plenty of info. Most people prefer in this day, solid state/flash card recorders or HD (hard drive) recorders. DAT has gone by the wayside for the most part.
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DAT has gone by the wayside for the most part.
How much does a DAT deck go for in the YS these days? I'd do a search but I don't even know the model names...I'd like to get one just for posterity's sake.
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Now wait a minute...
The Marantz CDR 420 is a hard disk recorder.
It has an internal hard drive. Doesn't that mean that it records straight to its hard drive and then you can burn it right there?
Because it has a USB port as well...seems like that would be designed so that a person could go straight from hard drive to your computer?
??? ??? ???
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Your right. It is a hard disc recorder (20g hd) with a built in cdr burner.
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So to find out how this Marantz unit compares with say.....the SD722.....would I have to call Marantz for that kind of comparison....
.....or I guess I just need to find out what kind of inputs/outputs it uses?
and then figure out if those are quality or not?
.....This just seems way too cool. 20gig HD and I can burn in the parking lot!!!!
SWEET!
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"I can burn in the parking lot!!!!"
I do that already!
:smoking2:
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You can compare feature set and specs via the online documentation. To really know how the sound quality compares - gain structure, preamps, ADC, etc. - requires listening. I don't know anyone on TS who uses one and from whom we might get samples to hear how it sounds, or who may be in a position to run a head-to-head comparison. Good luck.
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well I have no experience with this unit, I don't use one and don't know anyone who does. In fact, I 've ne3ver heard of a concert taper using one. That's not to say it can't be used just that it isn't common.
What I can tell you about many of these sort of recorders from edirol/roland, marantz, fostex, tascam, korg, etc... they are not designed to be used to record concerts. their analog gain sections are not usually structured all that well for recording loud rock concerts. that is why so many of us that use devices like this have them modified by audio professionals like the oade brothers or Busman at Cascade. That's not to say that this device won't work, but that you might be better off using a device that one of those pros offers modifications on. Also this deivce is only a 16 bit device. while 16 bit recording is still a perfectly valid techniology things certainly seem to be moving to higher resolution recording devices. either 24 bit recorders or even DSD records.
As far as this particular device goes there are plenty of other options in this price range that might be a better fit. The marantz pmd671, tascam hd-p2, edirol r-4, korg mr-1000. I'd opt for any of those devices of the cdr-420 any day of the week, because all of those devices are mod-able, they record 24 bit, and have been tested extinsivley in the field. They are all around the same price as the cdr-420. None of them can burn CDs, but honestly I don't see that as being all that useful for a concert taper. Are you going to track out your recordings right on the device? what about any post processing (adding gain, compression, EQ, etc)?
The sound devices units (702/722/744) are all nice units. However they are all also much more costly than any of the other devices. If you've got the money and want a pro quality device you can't go wrong with their recorders... they are well built, have nice analog stages, nice A/D, and top quality support.
I can tell you that calling marantz and asking them to compare their products to a competitiors products will most likely result in them telling you how much better their product is even if it truly isn't. They are a company, and their goal is to sell stuff.
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To tell you (or you guys) the truth. This is a major choice for me. I am really interested in this Mr 1000, but I am just concerned that I would end up spending a lot more to get the "total package" i.e. a way to playback the data easily.
So with being skeptic of the Mr1000 it seems like it should be an easy choice for the 722. but it is 2500...unless you find one used...but they who knows what has happened to it....
And if I don't buy one of the two aforementioned devices I feel like I am settling for inferior technology.
I have been planning on around $3500 to get started. That includes recording device and mics....
....of course some of you will say start small...but I am just not that type of guy. I have an excellent ear for recordings and if I invest in some crazy recorder or have to compromise on mic quality I will notice it. And it will annoy the hell out of me.....
Everyday it seems like I change my goals of recording a little bit more, and a little bit more. I am still at the stage where I have to ask myself, "Am I going to get bored with live recording?" "Wouldn't it be easier to just download?" "Will you actually go to shows and tape them?" "Will anyone even let me in the show with all of this terrorist technology?"
Geesh....I am still overwhelmed. I need to soak in more of this stuff.....
Here is something that would help me immensely...
...can anyone tell me where I can find some reading material on all of these "bits" and "bytes" and all of the more technical info? I read the whole 722 vs. MR1000 and a lot of the stuff just didn't make sense to me...
like what is a damn sampling freq.?
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sampleing frequency is how many "samples" (measurements) are taken in a second.
like CDs 44.1kHz. that is 44,100 samples per second.
DVD-Audio can be up to 192,000 samples per second.
now...
you want good advice, spend $2300 on mics and your other 1200 on a Marantz ACM (moded by the oades w/the advance concert mod) PMD 671.
pass go.
collect $200
make scorching tapes.
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Here is something that would help me immensely...
...can anyone tell me where I can find some reading material on all of these "bits" and "bytes" and all of the more technical info? I read the whole 722 vs. MR1000 and a lot of the stuff just didn't make sense to me...
like what is a damn sampling freq.?
http://nickspicks.com/faqs-recording.htm
some of this is a tad dated...but should get you going.
a month of research on this board and you'll be a pro, so you are certainly in the right place.
one hint...
buy used, right here in the yard sale.
you will retain about 90-100% of the gears value on resale (back here on the board).
we take good care of our stuff usually, and most of the folks here can give you good advice on whats good for prices and what not.
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...can anyone tell me where I can find some reading material on all of these "bits" and "bytes" and all of the more technical info? I read the whole 722 vs. MR1000 and a lot of the stuff just didn't make sense to me...
like what is a damn sampling freq.?
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,1167.0.html
And if I don't buy one of the two aforementioned devices I feel like I am settling for inferior technology.
I have been planning on around $3500 to get started. That includes recording device and mics....
That's a mighty fine budget for getting started. Nick's right in the sense that generally speaking, you'll get better results out of $2,300 mics + $1,200 recorder than $1,000 mics + $2,500 recorder. As recording gear has improved in quality and dropped in price over time, it's not as true as it was historically - e.g. there are some really great mics out there for ~$1k (AKG 480s, Beyerdynamic MC930s, etc.), and the Oade ACM Tascam HD-P2 and ACM Marantz PMD-671 are really solid pre/ADC/recorders - but generally speaking it's a good starting statement.
And if I don't buy one of the two aforementioned devices [722 / MR-1000] I feel like I am settling for inferior technology.
There are really fantastic all-in-one pre/ADC/recorders available today for < $1,500. While there are some build-quality differences between the HD-P2 / PMD-671 and 722 - the 722 is built like a tank, the others have good build quality but not up to the same level as the 722 - the sound isn't radically different to my ears. Check out this comparison of the 722 and Oade ACM Tascam HD-P2 as all-in-one pre/ADC/recorders (http://). Nick recommended the ACM Marantz PMD-671...another fine choice, and an ACM PMD-671 v. ACM HD-P2 comparison lives here (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,74545.0.html). See if your ears distinguish significant differences in the 722/ACM HD-P2 comp and other listening to help determine whether or not you're settling for "inferior" technology. Use your ears to make that evaluation, not people's comments here, specs, marketing hype, etc.
Same goes for selecting mics. At your price point, it really comes down to personal preference - do you prefer an uber-transparent and detailed sound (a la DPA 402x), or a very detailed but more colored sound (Schoeps CCMx / MKx-CMC6 or Neumann KM1xx or KM18x), small diaphragm (Beyerdynamic MC930, AKG 480x) or large diaphragm (AKG C414-B XLS), discrete solution (DPA 402x, Neumann KM1xx, Schoeps CCMx/MKx with active cables) or full-bodied mics (Beyerdynamic MC930, AKG 48x, Neumann KM18x), do you want the option of multiple patterns (either selectable via some large diaphragm mics, or switchable caps on small diaphragm mics), etc.
The best thing you can do is identify up front as best as possible your non-sonic requirements (discrete v. full-bodied), and then listen listen listen. And even then you may make the wrong decision "for you".
It took me a fair amount of recording, listening, and playback upgrade to really "hear" my recording gear choices, identify sonic characteristics I preferred or disliked, and then make the appropriate changes to achieve the sound for which I was looking. And my preferences have changed over time. I expect the same to be true for just about everyone. There's no "one size fits all" for recording gear options, preferences, etc. Listen as best you're able to the options available, pull the trigger, record, listen, upgrade your playback (if necessary...and for many people here, I think it's necessary), re-evaluate, then sell & re-buy to address your experiences. There is no shortcut to that "perfect" sound, no single set of gear that works best for everyone, in every situation, etc.