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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: j5brock on July 21, 2007, 11:50:33 AM
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Bought a pair of stereo matched mk41s a few months back. Used them once and all was fine, have used my mk4s since, but went to use the 41s last night and one of my caps is almost 10dbs off from the other cap.. any suggestions, including who can I send this to for repair.
Jeff
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Last time I used them was in a small clubhouse for a friends band - very humid. I keep them stored in a pelican case. I ran 480s for a few years and never had this problem - stored them the same way. Pulled them out last night at a small club and at first thought I might have a bad cable or connection because the difference was so great. Then swapped to the mk4s and they were dead on. I will add that when I got these a few months back they smelled like they had been used and stored in a high school bathroom. I have been airing them out at my office.
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I always store my mics with some of those silica moisture obsorbing packs (the ones that come with packaged electronics) since I had a mic go out on me on a paid job. Luckily we caught it through monitoring and quickly switched them out.
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Is there a range for humidity levels that microphones are supposed to be stored in? Is it actually possible for an environment to be too dry?
/trying not to steer topic
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Taking gear from a humid environ and putting it in a sealed case seems risky. Capsules are the extreme case. Cameras too (lenses and shutters). In addition to corrosion there is fungus/mold. Old cameras often smell musty. In some situations, a pelican could be worse than leaving them in the gear bag with windscreens on (something I don't do or recommend). It would be interesting to hear the opinion/experiences of some ENG types who torture their mics. I've always assumed a wet bag surface creates a sauna for the contents.
I also have packets in my cases. Though there isn't much room in the schoeps cap cases. Wonder if we should do a group source/buy on some tiny encapsulated silica packets suitable for single cap storage?
I hope your caps equal out after some drying out. Stuido Projects was/is recommending you bake the C4 caps in the oven at some specified temp if you have problems. That is the first thing they rec to customers who report cap problems. I've never heard of that with schoeps and wouldn't try it with them. My oven is 50F hotter than the dial setting, so I bet some customers hurt caps that way.
Maybe something like this:
http://www.posthorn.com/Macvk_3.html
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Send or call here.
http://www.reddingaudio.com/
I have a couple of Schoeps and Senn Shotgun and Boompole, etc.
I leave the mikes mounted on their shockmount, with a rycote softie on, and put them into a porta brace bag.
Faster to mount or change out in a hurry, and they can breathe. The softie protects them.
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Slightly off topic, but when we archived Jam cruise, we had my AK40 actives on stage (110) with the B+K large screens. I wasn't even thinking to wipe the active stuff down. My active bars all had some noticeable corrosion when I got home.
Although thats an extreme example. The screens protected the caps well, though.
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using my DPA 4022 or 4061 after a show , I usually keep them out of their containers to air dry, because i stealth, which is unlike your case but maybe others caon say any or yeah to keeping the mics out after a show for a day or 2, this is what i do
i addition with the heat at outside shows, i think my head and hair gets very wet, but so far the mics still going strong, any ideas on maybe to keep them dry in the stealth arena
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What % humidity in the air result to cap damage?
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Can humidity account for a 10db difference - and if so - will allowing the caps to dry out cure this ill. The ck63 caps I had were a couple of dbs off - which was easily fixed with the V3.. but these are actually a little over 11dbs off - sequential serial numbers sold as a stereo pair. Very bummed - but hopefully fixable.
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bummer man. with my mbho actives, i leave them mounted on the DINa kwon bar and with the big-ass shure screens on in transport. mainly because im lazy anymore but also because of moisture and airing them out, yet still protecting the capsule.
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Jbrock,
Fisrt post says one of your capsules is 10db low. Your last post you are saying "these caps are 10 db off" Could you clarify this. One capsule or the both of them. Schoeps usually need quite a bit of gain. You don't have a pad switch on accidently? I'd power them on for a few hours and see what happens.
Nice to have consequtive serial numbers. Schoeps dealer in LA toured factory and said those mikes go through 7 stages of test and tweaking..... they are pretty much matched no matter what the serial number.
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Sorry for any confusion - one cap is 10db low.. swapped to my mk4s and they are dead on,, and the cmc bodies do not have a pad on them... I am hoping it is a humidity issue and have them in a mason jar full of silica packs. Will give them a test in afew days - then its off to reddingaudio if there is no improvement.
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Many thanks to all that responded - being the impatient kind.. I pulled the caps out after about 4hrs in a mason jar with about 20 silica absorbers.. and they are within 1db of each other.. this will certainly change the way I store my mics in the future - Obviously my schoeps are way more sensitive to humuidity than my akg 480s were. Again - thanks to all - as I had no idea how great an impact humidity could have on caps.
Jeff
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j5, please contact your Schoeps dealer or (assuming that you're in the U.S.) the representative Redding Audio. What you describe is extremely weird, and should not be occurring. I say this as someone who owns 23 Schoeps capsules and having recorded 2000+ live concert performances with them over more than 30 years; I take no special precautions against moisture but have never had any experience like what you've described.
I also used to record live outdoor sound effects for hours at a time including Walden Pond and other sites on or close to water, using Schoeps MK 4 or MK 5 capsules; I never had any problems whatsoever. If you were in a steamy jungle with moisture condensing outright, I could understand it, but if you're working in a temperate climate and more or less normal conditions of humidity, as many film and video sound people do all the time with Schoeps microphones (including a lot of outdoor work), I suspect there may be a defect in the internal insulation of one of your capsules, and if so, it should be repaired.
This is not just some unfortunate but typical behavior for this kind of microphone; it is extremely anomalous behavior, and should be looked into.
--best regards
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When the silica gel has turned reddish from absorbing the moisture they can be dried by heating at a low heat > 200F overnight. They last forever; well, almost. The granules are a cobalt blue when dried out.
Cheers
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my matched mk4's have been off a few db since they were new in the box, while that is not 10 db i think i read somewhere that caps are considered "matched" if they are within 3 db, anyone know if this is accurate?
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> i think i read somewhere that caps are considered "matched" if they are within 3 db, anyone know if this is accurate?
3 dB?! That would be a gross mismatch in their terms.
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I have only owned schoeps for a few years but my 4's and 41's are dead on and it doesn't get much more humid than the Mississippi gulf coast. I would send them to redding and let them have a go at them. From what I gather they have some of the best customer support in the mic business. If my caps were off more than a db I would want to know why? Why that is I had them match them. Matched to me means the same or damm near the same. Have you switched the caps between bodies?
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I have only owned schoeps for a few years but my 4's and 41's are dead on and it doesn't get much more humid than the Mississippi gulf coast.
I concur, I have been here in Tokyo Japan with Schoeps matched mk21 and mk4v for the past two years and they have never given me any trouble. Always, dead-on and I just got back from Fuji Rock where I didn't have alot of protection from the elements (and worn 75% of time in a hat near my steaming head). I do store them in a pelican with silca when not in use.
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i beleive that they match them to within .1 dB
I'd bet just about anything coming out of the factory is within 0.5-1db
matching=overrated in our application. its way easier to get a 1 dB differenc in signal just from having your mics pointed slightly off
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Well - they are off to Schoepsland for a checkup.. my matched mk4's are are less than a db apart.. And I am sure that matched mk41's are supposed to be less than 10db off. They probably needed to visit the factory anyway - as they smelled like they came from a high school bathroom. i am sure they need at least a good cleaning - and I would prefer not to destroy a pair of $1600 caps trying to save a couple of bucks.