Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: DeltaBluesMan on August 09, 2007, 01:09:18 AM
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Ok had my zoom H4 for about a month now and up to know I was taping my Son but now I want to tape some other bands. My question is, when taping stealth or open do you tape the entire set in one file? Or each song on its own file? Thanks for your help.
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Well, I'm only a beginner myself, but I tape one band per file, then track the individual songs in CDWave editor, a freeware program which is very easy to use, only because I don't want to record during a set change. Then again, I've only stealthed one show, but we stopped after the first act and started a new file for the next. Open taping, I tape a band's set, stop the recorder and start a new file for the next band. Then I track it at home... or in a couple cases, I still have wave files I haven't tracked ::) Hope this helps. The real tapers will come on later and give you their take! rWc3523 8)
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The real tapers will come on later and give you their take! rWc3523 8)
You sound like a real taper to me!
Process is:
One recording per artist or set.
Post work:
-delete stuff at beginning and end of recording that you don't want
-add fade in at beginning
-add fade out at end
-Boost volume, balancing individual tracks (left and right) if necessary
-Track show in CD Wave
Occasional post work:
-EQing (I hate this as I'm crap at it).
-cut the clap (best done in Soundforge, or any program that shapes the audience applause so that the peaks are reduced).
-cut the mate (your best mate comes up to you and chats during the wait for the encore - not realising that you have to split the recording, cut out the conversation you are having, add fades out and in, and seamlessly join them back together (and done correctly, you'll never know there's a gap of a minute or so)).
Hope that helps? Am sure this is all here on this site, if you search..
Humbug
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Post work:
-delete stuff at beginning and end of recording that you don't want
-add fade in at beginning
-add fade out at end
-Boost volume, balancing individual tracks (left and right) if necessary
-Track show in CD Wave
Personally I rarely have the need for fades but if you're doing them I'd suggest they should be the last thing you're doing. If you normalize/amplifiy your recording after the fades, the fades will also be effected by your processing and won't start/end in "absolute silence".
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Post work:
-delete stuff at beginning and end of recording that you don't want
-add fade in at beginning
-add fade out at end
-Boost volume, balancing individual tracks (left and right) if necessary
-Track show in CD Wave
Personally I rarely have the need for fades but if you're doing them I'd suggest they should be the last thing you're doing. If you normalize/amplifiy your recording after the fades, the fades will also be effected by your processing and won't start/end in "absolute silence".
That's correct. Good point.
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Personally I rarely have the need for fades but if you're doing them I'd suggest they should be the last thing you're doing. If you normalize/amplifiy your recording after the fades, the fades will also be effected by your processing and won't start/end in "absolute silence".
I personally like the fades - they give the recording a more pleasing feel. Also, to have some of the loud rock bands crashing straight in would be bothersome.
Amplifying a fade in does not add noise..also I didn't mention that I add around 0.5 seconds of silence to the start and end of a show, again before I amplify.
The reason I do the fades before the amplification, is I like the amplification to be the last thing I do, as I sometimes mess it up. My 'phones aren't that great, but my stereo is good, and sometimes I get the l-r balance wrong.
Going back to the master recording and undoing (in Audacity at least, Soundforge won't let you) the amplification, and correcting it, allows you to reuse the cue file you have (hopefully) already saved in CD Wave, and saves a lot of time, particularly for bands that segue songs.
Hope that makes some sense!
Humbug
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Personally I rarely have the need for fades but if you're doing them I'd suggest they should be the last thing you're doing. If you normalize/amplifiy your recording after the fades, the fades will also be effected by your processing and won't start/end in "absolute silence".
I personally like the fades - they give the recording a more pleasing feel. Also, to have some of the loud rock bands crashing straight in would be bothersome.
Amplifying a fade in does not add noise..also I didn't mention that I add around 0.5 seconds of silence to the start and end of a show, again before I amplify.
The reason I do the fades before the amplification, is I like the amplification to be the last thing I do, as I sometimes mess it up. My 'phones aren't that great, but my stereo is good, and sometimes I get the l-r balance wrong.
Going back to the master recording and undoing (in Audacity at least, Soundforge won't let you) the amplification, and correcting it, allows you to reuse the cue file you have (hopefully) already saved in CD Wave, and saves a lot of time, particularly for bands that segue songs.
Hope that makes some sense!
Humbug
I never said you add noise, I said you amplify the fades. If I do them I want them to start with silence, if I have e.g. a 16 bit recording I want my fades to start at -96db; amplify that by, for example, +3 db and your recording fades-in starting at -93db. Nitpicking to some but imperfection to others. I just set a temporary mark where I want my fade to start/end, work on the recording, and at the end I just select that area, fade-in/out and that's it. It doesn't have any effect on my .cue sheets, the fades aren't cutting anything off the recording, it's still the same length.
So basically I understand what you're doing but it's not what I'm doing, just offering another perspective.
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I tape one long file. The reason I'd recommend against one file per song for a live perfomance is that you ultimately will want to retrack the songs before releasing the recording. If you already have one long segment, you don't have to piece the songs back together before tracking them for release. I can't count the number of times I've picked the wrong place to position a track boundary during a segue.
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Well, I'm only a beginner myself, but I tape one band per file, then track the individual songs in CDWave editor, a freeware program which is very easy to use, only because I don't want to record during a set change. Then again, I've only stealthed one show, but we stopped after the first act and started a new file for the next. Open taping, I tape a band's set, stop the recorder and start a new file for the next band. Then I track it at home... or in a couple cases, I still have wave files I haven't tracked ::) Hope this helps. The real tapers will come on later and give you their take! rWc3523 8)
actually, CD Wave is not freeware. its shareware. the license to use the software beyond 31 days is $15.
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Sorry bout that. Never knew that since I had a copy and used it for much longer than that. Maybe I wasn't supposed to. ::) rWc3523
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I have never seen anybody pay $15.00 for CDwave.
My recordings.
One file, tracked in cdwave.
No amplification, normalization, or equalization.
Add fades
Seed.
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::raises hand:: I bought a CD-Wave license. (Though I don't use it much, anymore, since getting Samplitude SE.)
<RANT>
For those who haven't purchased a license, yet use it beyond the 31-day trial: <1> it's a violation of the license, and more importantly <2> it ain't right, plain and simple.
It's one thing to violate licensing requirements (i.e. use cracked or unlicensed software) if there aren't hobbyist/consumer-affordable applications to perform the functions one desires - in those cases, the market has failed to address the needs of a particular user segment, for one reason or another. Not saying it's right or legal, just saying on some level it's understandable.
However, that's simply not the case with CD-Wave or software that addresses our broader editing needs. With the accessibility and affordability of applications like CD-Wave, Audacity, and Samplitude SE (I'm sure there are other affordable hobbyist/consumer-level apps I'm missing both for PC and Mac), there's simply no justification for using unlicensed / cracked software like CD-Wave and WaveLab (two of the most popular apps among tapers).
And with respect to CD-Wave specifically, it's downright peanuts. What's $15 relative to the money we put into our recording gear? To the money we spend on tickets to shows? To the money we spend on drinks in a single set? If only every taper who uses/used CD-Wave regularly paid for their license, well...the author would get one small fraction of the reimbursement he deserves for creating such a handy application (and for licensing it in an open way, rather than crippleware).
In some ways, the license allowing a fully functional, 31-day open demo is analagous to our agreement with musicians who allow open recording. Musicians allow us to record their concerts as long as we don't sell the recordings. We frown upon those who sell recordings. In the case of CD-Wave, the author provides full, unfettered, non-crippled 31-day trial access in return for (very reasonably priced) payment if one decides to use it beyond the trial period. Is breaching this agreement with the CD-Wave author any different than breaching the agreement between musicians and tapers?
</RANT>
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What I do is keep one big file for the whole performance. I crop it to start and end and that's it.
Then I use a "montage" in Wavelab 4.0. This allows me to drop CD markers, label tracks, etc. I can also change the gain of part or all as well, *keeping the original file*.
Oh yeah, for loud clapping what I do is use a compressor. Say the music is -12dB and the claps hit -6dB, I might apply 10dB gain. This works well since the music comes up, mostly uncompressed, while the claps are compressed. Simpler than editing by hand and works most of the time. Remember, I keep the original WAV file, so I could change this later :).
Oh yeah, when I write the CD, I write a continuous image, so the banter between songs is all there. Track marks are (usually) at the beginning of each song, or (rarely) at the intro for the song if it sounds good.
Richard
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I just checked out CDwaves homepage. I had NEVER seen any of the buy it now info. It does say when you go to the download page it is good for 31 days, and then you should purchase it.
I have never seen that. Oh well ;D
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I just checked out CDwaves homepage. I had NEVER seen any of the buy it now info. It does say when you go to the download page it is good for 31 days, and then you should purchase it.
I have never seen that. Oh well ;D
There's a BUY (http://www.milosoftware.com/cdwave/register.html) link on the top of the homepage (http://www.milosoftware.com/cdwave/). And a link lower on the page for How to register (http://www.milosoftware.com/cdwave/register.html). It's also noted in the FAQ (http://www.milosoftware.com/cdwave/faq.html). And in the Help | About screen within the software itself. And in the Help file. And...well, you get the point - it's everywhere. Seems like one would have to be actively not paying attention to miss it. ???
At any rate, please consider buying a license now. As the author notes in the Help file:
Why register
You should register to satisfy your conscience. The registered version has no added functionality over the shareware version. $15 is a ridiculously low price for this program, and if you think you just can keep on using it without paying, well, that means you'll go to hell and have to spend eternity with the other lamers.
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I hear you.
Everytime I have gone to that page, I see the download and download it. I never read anything. I knew how it worked, so I never read anything. I'll send them $15.00. I sure use it enough.
I think TS should get some too. They will today.
How about when bittorrent was pretty new. It always asked you to donate to Bram ???. I did that. Whatever happened to that?
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I also recently purchased a Zoom H4, and I've decided I much prefer to record one big WAV file, so I don't have to mess with the recorder during the show. Not only that, but I learned the hard way that stopping and starting between songs can lead you to miss some really funny and interesting in between song comments from the performers.
You can always split the files later...you can't go back and re-record what you missed though.
When I get home, I split it up into tracks with Adobe Audition.
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To everyone who left advice I send a Big
Thank You!Thank You!
So much info So little time.
Thanks again
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More Questions Does the program cubase that came with the recoreder do the same thing as CDwave?
And now that I have several SD cards with each song its own file, How can I get them back to how I should have done it in the first place, one big file? Hey, I told you I was not tech savvy. Thanks for the help.
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now that I have several SD cards with each song its own file, How can I get them back to ... one big file?
If you plan to be recording a lot, you might consider spending $50 for Samplitude SE8. It will do what you ask and so much more. I no longer use any other utilities since I bought a copy. If you want something very much like samplitude for free, you can join and split waves using audacity under both linux and windows. There is a wealth of information on both in the computer forum.