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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: HappenSix on September 10, 2007, 12:49:40 PM
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Hi all,
I have a quick question about recording gear, and sorry in advance if this has already been asked.
I'm looking for a portable recorder and am between either the Zoom H4 and the Edirol R-09. Leaning towards the R-09.
It seems like all the debates between these two players has been from a more music type recording angle.
I just wanted to know which would be best in the field where portability, durability, simplicity and compactivity(I know that's not a real word) are key. Also how do they compare in build quality? I plan on using lavalier and shotgun mics but also the built-in stereo all about the same amount.
I plan on publishing the audio so the small consumer type recorders won't do.
(The M-Audio MT is out because it uses an internal battery and the CF card is exposed.)
Also if there's another recorder out there that I should look let me know.
Thanks, Matt
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If you want to bite the big one, Sound Devices sells a series which are used professional for ENG: the SD 7xx series. They cost, but are rugged, reliable, pretty small, easy to use and have superb sound preserving abilities. Maybe a little larger than what you want, and more pricey. www.sounddevices.com At the small end of the scale is the SONY MZ-RH1 which is smaller than a pack of cigarettes, remember them??, can record 90 minutes in WAV format and has plug-in power for the mics. I own both pieces of hardware. The SD costs almost ten times the SONY.
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Thanks, I'll take a look at the Sony. I'm thinking of something that will fit on my belt.
I'm a photographer so taking pictures is my priority but I need the recorder to be there so I can grab interviews and other sounds for the whole multimedia thing.
Does anyone else have thoughts?
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...portability, durability, simplicity and compactivity(I know that's not a real word) are key.
Previous poster mentioned the RH1. Sony has been making portable minidisc recorders for a long time, they are very small (portability and compactivity), feel solid and have been around for years (durability). Simplicity is in the mind of the beholder. ;)
Regarding fitting "on your belt". I submit that the Zoom H4 is a bit bulky for that, but the R-09 can fit into a BodyGlove neoprene case designed for a cell phone: http://dharmastrum.net/R09.html (http://dharmastrum.net/R09.html). The RH1 is smaller than the R-09.
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I work for a radio station and our reporters use everything from Edirol R1s, R9s, Marantz 660s, and a wide variety of Sony MDs. The MDs are overwhelmingly popular for grab and go interviews. They are, however, a bitch when dealing with real time transfers.
Now, I don't go out on the street but if I did I would take an R9 with me. Do with that info what you will.
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If you want to bite the big one, Sound Devices sells a series which are used professional for ENG: the SD 7xx series. They cost, but are rugged, reliable, pretty small, easy to use and have superb sound preserving abilities. Maybe a little larger than what you want, and more pricey.
Read my comments about the 722 on location in the general section. I had Fozzy join me for a series of interviews. I loaned him my spare boom and trying to get the camera and the 722 setup properly was a royal PITA. Granted we had to do some creative wiring since he didn't have the mini-XLR cables, but the 722 interface really sucks for run and gun type of interviews. The run and gun style interview is exactly what this person described, and so I would highly recommend using anything but the 722 series for it based on real-world experience.
Wayne
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Since you mentioned 'recorder' only in your message, I think many responders are assuming you're supplying your own external mics. However, since you're just referring to having it on your belt and having it handy, can I assume maybe that you don't have mics and one of the factors in selecting the R-09 and Zoom was the on-board mics???
What I can contribute to this is that when I had an R-09, I thought that the sound I got from the one or two samples I made with the internal mics are amazing sounding for internal mics. I didn't do any scientific testing or anything, but I'm just saying that I thought the sound was pretty dang good compared to what I expected.
Having said that, you also need to be aware that there is an inherent defect in the design of the R-09 in that the connections on the Line In jack are very weak and if you use that jack much, after some time it _WILL_ fail. Edirol is aware of this issue and has been I understand repairing all of their units under warranty, but what about when the warranty expires? I'm not sure if this is a reason not to go with the R-09, because it's a very very popular product amongst live music recordists, but wanted you to be aware of that issue. I was quite happy with the unit while I used it and the reason I sold it was to help fund gear slut-i-tis.
Can't comment on the sound out of the Zoom, since I've never owned one.
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I've used by R-09 for a couple of interviews (newspaper reporter) and will likely use it again because I can upload the wave and listen to the interview with headphones at my desk. I can go back and forth through the file quickly with windows media player. The sound I got was adequate, even the one where there was a loud fan and loud patrons in a restaurant. I never used recorders in 17 years or newsgathering, but will do it now in certain instances, if only to justify the expense! ;D I doubt I'll even pull out the church cards for an interview, but someone else might. Hope this helps.
rWc3523
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Wasn't the PMD660 built to withstand the rigors of field use. Wasn't it hailed by reporters around the world for its durability?
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The Nagra Ares-MII is a good choice for a journalist.
http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/products_ares_mII.php
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The Nagra Ares-MII is a good choice for a journalist.
http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/products_ares_mII.php
And affordable, too??
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Not bad list price is approximately $1400.00 and that includes the mic.
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Not bad list price is approximately $1400.00 and that includes the mic.
Not as bad as I thought. I could not find a price and was afraid it was stratospheric like most of the rest of the Nagra line.
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but the 722 interface really sucks for run and gun type of interviews. The run and gun style interview is exactly what this person described, and so I would highly recommend using anything but the 722 series for it based on real-world experience.
Wayne
Please ellaborate. I would think having SD722 set on 24 bits, limiters on and a low noise mic attached, the only thing you need to do in run and gun type situation is hit the REC button. Twidling thru those 88 menu settings and soldering plugs should be done before the situation at hand...
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I'm a journalist myself (radio & newspaper), I have gone from one device to another, including MT, a few Sony MDs and even PocketRec, a device to transform a PocketPC into a portable recorder and editor. I finally settled for the R-09 as the best in a non-perfect world. Internal microphones are surprisingly good for close range interviews, and a self-powered Rode NT3 (condenser mic) gives me studio sound quality anywhere. Batteries last a long time. I can even pop out the SD card (in my case, a microSD with an SD adapter) and upload a file to the studio from my Windows Mobile phone (with 3G high-speed Internet access).
It could be better: I'd love to have editing or file splitting capabilities in the R-09 (latest firmware upgrade allows file splitting but only during recording) to extract sound bites, like the ridiculously expensive Nagra. I haven't found software for Windows Mobile that can do that sort of editing on an MP3 file (I can't record in WAV if I want to upload the file quickly).
Good luck.
EDIT: I just found out that the Zoom H2 has the file splitting option I was looking for, plus normalizing. I ordered one. We'll see.
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I haven't found software for Windows Mobile that can do that sort of editing on an MP3 file (I can't record in WAV if I want to upload the file quickly).
Good luck.
EDIT: I just found out that the Zoom H2 has the file splitting option I was looking for, plus normalizing. I ordered one. We'll see.
I do not know if MP3DirectCut will work in Windows Mobile but it can edit MP3 files in their MP3 state.
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Please ellaborate. I would think having SD722 set on 24 bits, limiters on and a low noise mic attached, the only thing you need to do in run and gun type situation is hit the REC button. Twidling thru those 88 menu settings and soldering plugs should be done before the situation at hand...
IF (and that's a big if) you always deal with the same camera it might not be as bad as I painted it. However, if you have to jump right in connect to a camera, set levels (could SD have hidden the tone options any deeper in the menus?), record to your HD, and output to the camera, I can think of a bunch of MUCH easier devices to do it with.
I'll freely admit, I'm spoiled working with the Deva where the touch screen enables me to quickly access many of the screens and provides me with shortcuts to many screens from the main recording screen. And I'll also admit that if we had mini XLR (full size XLR connectors on the 722 really would have been nice) cables things probably would have went smoother, but the experience didn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling about the device in run and gun situations.
Wayne
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I would seriously consider getting the Zoom H2. I've been using mine for a couple of weeks for field recordings and it sounds like just what you're looking for. The on-board mics are surprisingly good and I've also used an external self-powered shotgun with no problems at all. The interface is very easy to use and the H2 is compact and light. The build quality is fine--it's mostly plastic, but solid and not creaky. Unless you're recording a very quiet source at the highest gain setting, the noise floor is acceptable. You do have to be careful with handling noise, but if you can keep a firm grip on the h2 and not move your hand around, you should be ok. For $200, I think it's worth ordering and evaluating--you can always return it if it doesn't meet your needs.