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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: DaveH on September 17, 2007, 03:13:00 PM
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Hi all,
I just purchased the above mentioned recorder and then found out a review stating it overloads on live performances. :(Is this true and if so any way I could eliminate that problem? Thanks for the help.
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you need to go LINE-IN and use a battery-box between the mics and the recorder.
If the recording still distorts, you either use too much gain OR your mics can´t handle the high soundpressure levels.
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Always set your levels manually. and like already mentioned run line in, only use mic in when you are recording very soft music. The mic in jack is quite easy to overpower. This isnt a himd is it? If so record in pcm.
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I'm a bit new here, what is a battery box and what do I hook up to the line in? Thanks!
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I used this very model minidisc for several years. I had 3 minidiscs (the MZ-R91, MZ-R909, and MZ-S1) and for me, this one was the most reliable. Here's an old sample from a show I used it at, if I remember correctly: http://www.bringbackthesun.com/trade/sample/tmbg_1.mp3
A battery box is a small box with a battery in it that provides power to a microphone. Microphones that have them will cost you a bit more, but it is a very good idea to invest a bit and get one. If you look around this site a bit you should be able to find a lot of good information about choosing a microphone.
You'll want to hook the microphone into the "line in." There are two inputs on the MZ-R91. One has a red ring around it, and that's the "mic in." Despite the name, that's not the one you'll want to use. You want one with the white ring that is labelled "line in" or "line/optical in." This may sound strange, but the reason for this is: 1. if you use the "mic in" plug, the recording will be amplified quite a bit (which is why you may want to use it when recording very soft music, but even then you'll probably be okay with the line in) 2. the "mic in" provides a little bit of power that microphones need to run, but the "line in" doesn't. You'll want to use a microphone with its own power supply, so this power coming from the minidisc's "mic in" isn't necessary and will only make your batteries run out sooner.
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Thank you for the info, I have 2 microphones and the 3rd one which is coming with the unit. I think the best one I have is the ATR35s by Audio-Technica. The cord is a bit longer than I'd prefer but it does run on it's own battery. I'm just glad someone else out there has this same model as I thought I made a huge mistake by the review I read.
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You probably won't have problems if you go line-in + battery box as said above.
I don't think there's something like the recorder - itself - overloading at all "live performances", it really depends on the adjustments, mics, bbox/preamp etc.
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I regularly use a Sony MZ-NH900 MD player to record very loud live shows and use the line-in with a battery box from Microphone Madness. It is very small, offers a number of bass-rolloff settings (nice if you're using omnis at a bass-heavy show or in a boomy hall) and I just velcro it to the back of my MD player. here's a link: http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmmimbobafim.htm (http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmmimbobafim.htm)
I also built my own battery box, which is easy enough to do, but it only provides one level of bass rolloff (the amount of which depends on the capcitor you use). building your own lets you use better capacitors than most commercial boxes use. here's a link: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=11254&st=0 (http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=11254&st=0)
good luck!
melon
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Here's some pics of the battery box I got from Microphone madness and of the one I built, for comparison. If you can hold a soldering iron and live near an electronics/radio repair shop, you can get the parts for and build your own for about $10.
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/1405022328_948778629a_o.jpg)
(above) both battery boxes closed
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1153/1404140565_fa48aaf394_o.jpg)
(above) Both boxes open. the rocker switches in the microphone madness BB are used to set different levels of bass rolloff
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/1404141149_3e844f441e_o.jpg)
(above) another shot of the same, different angles.
(http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1404142141&size=o)
(above) a better look at the innards of the MM BB...
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1192/1405024092_a40ca2beda_o.jpg)
(above) and the insides of the home made BB. really easy to make. Hope these are helpful.
Either will make recording line-in on a MD a joy.
Melon
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The microphone I have is battery operated (Audio Technica ATR-35). Does this eliminate the need for the battery box or is this a completely different thing? Also I haven't gotten the recorder yet, is the line-in the same size plug as the mic-in?
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The microphone I have is battery operated (Audio Technica ATR-35). Does this eliminate the need for the battery box or is this a completely different thing?
It's good to have a battery box even if you're mics are self-powered ones.
This might help:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,90152.0.html
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84500.0.html
Also I haven't gotten the recorder yet, is the line-in the same size plug as the mic-in?
Yeah, same size.
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awesome. the mint cans are the cats ass.
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awesome. the mint cans are the cats ass.
Indeed. I think it's funny that MM sells the mint-tin BB as a "stealth" device. I assume that they put it in a mint tin so you can play it off as a can of mints. I just used the altoids box because it was convenient and free. I'm not sure how you would explain to security the fact that your tin of mints has a cable coming out one end and a 3.5mm female jack on the other, but hey, details, details, right? ::)
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I was going into the h.o.b once and had a security guard feel my sp-6 bb in my pocket. He made me pull it out, (it looks like some kind of detonating device) hes like "what the hell is this? " i say ..." oh, thats just my multimeter to check secondary voltage on high current luminous tube transformers, i just came from work and must have left it in my pocket" he gives me about the stupidest look you could imagine and says " oh yeah,..okay well haue a nice show" lol
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I was going into the h.o.b once and had a security guard feel my sp-6 bb in my pocket. He made me pull it out, (it looks like some kind of detonating device) hes like "what the hell is this? " i say ..." oh, thats just my multimeter to check secondary voltage on high current luminous tube transformers, i just came from work and must have left it in my pocket" he gives me about the stupidest look you could imagine and says " oh yeah,..okay well haue a nice show" lol
classic!! +T
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I was going into the h.o.b once and had a security guard feel my sp-6 bb in my pocket. He made me pull it out, (it looks like some kind of detonating device) hes like "what the hell is this? " i say ..." oh, thats just my multimeter to check secondary voltage on high current luminous tube transformers, i just came from work and must have left it in my pocket" he gives me about the stupidest look you could imagine and says " oh yeah,..okay well haue a nice show" lol
:lol:
I'm trying to translate that to portuguese so I can use that excuse too lol
+T
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Finally got the recorder in the mail. Still need a battery box and possibly a new mic. I have 3 but the Audio Technica has such a huge cord it's a pain in the ass to stealth. The other 2 are no names but the one was said to use Panasonic components. It seems to sound good on testing but I don't know how it would do on a loud concert setting. One other thing, when you run the battery box and line-in do you still need to manually adjust the volume? This recorder boasts an automatic volume setting and manually adjusting would probably be a pain while stealthing. Any suggestions?
Also decided against building my own B.B. I'm not electronically enclined!
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The ACG (Automatic Gain Control) on your minidisc will ruin your recording. Turn it off. It is designed for recording voice, not live music. Unfortunaltely, unless you get an external pre-amp (which also doubles as a bb), you won't be able to adjust levels once recording starts. Pick something conservative in record-pause mode, then start your recording and forget about it. Changing the level would require you to pause the recording again.
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Just out of curiousity how much does a good inexpensive preamp run? And are there ones availables for stealth recording? The ones I've seen were rather big and pricey.
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I can't speak from experience, but Chris Church here on these forums sells a line of Pres that come highly recommended by users of this board. His latest is a miniature version of his popular CA-9100, listed as CA-UGLY in the retail section for $199. For a bit more he'll throw in mics.
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I was going into the h.o.b once and had a security guard feel my sp-6 bb in my pocket. He made me pull it out, (it looks like some kind of detonating device) hes like "what the hell is this? " i say ..." oh, thats just my multimeter to check secondary voltage on high current luminous tube transformers, i just came from work and must have left it in my pocket" he gives me about the stupidest look you could imagine and says " oh yeah,..okay well haue a nice show" lol
Thanks for the laugh! ;D
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Got another question concerning the recorder. I'll mostly be doing stealth recordings and am a little concerned on a few issues.
1. I noticed there are two recording settings. One stereo, one mono, how big of a difference in quality would I be sacrificing using the mono setting? The reason I ask is I only have 74 minute discs and when the recorder is stopped it takes forever to edit. (I'd probably miss two songs in a set before I can change discs.)
2. Setting the levels manually has a bit of a few step process. I wonder if I'll be able to see what I'm doing in a darkened room, avoid security etc.
3. I'm curious as to how the recording would turn out using a battery powered mic through the line-in. I plan on getting a battery box in the near future but for now would this render a recording brickwalled?
In case you haven't guessed all my previous recordings have been from a walkman cassette. I'm used to pushing a button and letting the automatic level take over from there.
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I started taping with an MZ-R70. Tried recording in mono for the extra record time once... If the recording is for your personal enjoyment, and you don't mind the lack of stereo imaging, this can be an okay solution. However, unless there's something spectacular about the show and you end up being the only one that gets a recording, it's unlikely that many people will be interested in trading/downloading it. Then again, the ATRAC3 compression in MD may also turn people away.
As for setting levels, I would set them before the show started and just hope for the best. Aim low, as it's better to have low levels (which can be boosted in post) than brickwalling (which simply ruins the recording). Try and go to an open taping band (even if you don't care for the music) and play with your levels there. This will give you some ideas on where to set them.
Battery powered mic > line in should work fine. Just beware that the battery powered mics from Sony tend to be 100hz - 15kHz instead of the full 20hz-20kHz range. This is good, in that it is less likely to overload your MD with BASS, but bad in that you loose a portion of the sound. To hear the difference, listen to my recording with a sony ECM-737 batt powered mic > MZ-RH1 against Jankas recording of the same show, from the same location, with much better gear.
Janka's AKGs http://www.archive.org/details/jwpp2007-10-06.Flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/jwpp2007-10-06.Flac16)
The Sony ECM-737 http://www.archive.org/details/jwpp2007-10-06.ats.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/jwpp2007-10-06.ats.flac16)
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I've been trying out the line-in with my battery box and the recordings are only on one speaker. Is there anything that I can do to get it on both speakers? I've tried three different mics and keep getting the same result.