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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: attheshow on October 04, 2007, 01:11:23 AM
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My current rig is an MZ-RH1 HiMD > ECM-719. I'm looking for a single point stereo mic for open taping of a wide range of music styles (soft jazz to hard rock). This is one of the mics I'm considering as an upgrade to my ECM-719. Many of the shows I've found for samples on LMA are SBD/AUD matrixes using this mic. I have listened to a couple standalones that I think sound good, but I never feel that sampling like this gives an accurate impression, since there are so many other factors that influence whether a recording sounds appealing. So, I'm asking you, as fellow tapers, for your opinions:
Is this mic a worthy upgrade to my ECM-719?
Is this mic a good value (at ~$250USD) new?
Are there other mics I should consider that are roughly less than or equal to its price?
Is there a compelling reason that I should steer clear of a one-point stereo mic altogether? (This will not be my only mic. I plan to suppliment this mic with a set of stealthable cards which will be separate, and therefore more configurable.)
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They dont suck...I think its been noted they use the same Primo capsules as the NAK 300s...(ask "illconditioned" - I think he took one apart)
Its sort of an older model though...but certainly a "worthy" upgrade. I've heard good recordings with it - but never been a big fan of this model.
Take a look at the new CK-33 from Avantone...about 350 bucks...
http://www.avantelectronics.com/CK-33%20Stereo%20FET%20Mic.htm
Although - it looks like you are looking for a battery powered mic - You would need a Phantom Supply for the Avantone...
The Sony ECM999 is also a nice mic - an older model - uses an M/S cap setup (with variable angles) and runs on a AA battery. Look around on ebay for these - they are sort of rare, but do turn up...(this would be your cheapest upgrade)
http://www.bsu.edu/met/gobbledygook/cr/sony/sony_999_info.html
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I think the 822 is a decent mic, but it needs to be close to the source to sound good. From farther back it looses a lot of it's high end. There is a local taper here who has been using an at822 for a number of years directly into a sony d8 and he makes some pretty decent recordings with it. much better than what I'd expect from a rig in that price range. If you really want a single point stereo mic in that price range it's not a bad option, but then again there aren't many competitors either.
if you are willing go to a stereo pair I think the studio projects c4, which run about the same price as the at822 if you buy them used are a far superior solution. of course they require phantom power and you have to deal with a stereo pair as oppossed to the ease of a single point mic. I haven't listened to much of the avantone ck1 mics, but I believe they are around that price point, and may be another option if you are willing to go to a stereo pair.
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I used one of these for awhile. You need to be close and if there's any kind of bass, use the rolloff/HPF.
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You may want to consider the Nady CM2S: it specs out exactly like the AT822 and runs roughly $100 less. I bought one as an inexpensive secondary mic to use outdoors and other high risk situations (like crowded bars). Here's a link to some info: http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-NAD-CM2S--src-D0401BZ0HAMS0000.html?utm_source=Feed&utm_medium=Bizrate (http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-NAD-CM2S--src-D0401BZ0HAMS0000.html?utm_source=Feed&utm_medium=Bizrate)
For the money and ease of use, I've been happy with the results the few times I've used it; LMK if you're interested in hearing samples. In fact, I'll ask Gordon to post the Marty Stuart set I captured at Bele Chere with it last summer.
HTH.
Peace, Debra
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Hi,
I've got a sample up on the edirolr1 yahoo group. Its in the files
section, named SampleAt822r09. I recorded it 16/48 with the R09.
At the stage lip, about 1ft above the stage. Its the first couple
minutes of One Day More. The main singers are left, center, right,
the piano is off stage right.
thanks
jim cowan
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Thanks! +t all around! I've looked at both the C4's and the Avantone mics, (was drooling over the CK40, and considering saving a bit longer) but alas, I am seeking something battery powered. Since this setup is for open taping situations I certainly could add phantom power, but I'm a bit worried about the additional cost. Is there a cheap but effective way to remotely provide phantom power to these mics? If not, and I suspect there isn't, I'll need to stick with battery power for now.
I've seen the NADY CM2S as well, but it seems harder to find and I've read complaints about it being too echo heavy. I haven't heard any samples though, would love to hear yours.
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I can think of two cheap phantom units...
ART Phantom II - $50
Rolls PB224 - $80
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They dont suck...I think its been noted they use the same Primo capsules as the NAK 300s...(ask "illconditioned" - I think he took one apart)
It uses a different Primo capsule, I think it may be a bit better than the Nak even. It is quite good. But, as other people said, you have to be up close to get good sound.
I've also had good luck using a SBD + AUD mix with this mic. The sources seem to complement each other nicely. I wouldn't hesistate to use this setup even though I've got better sounding mics.
Richard
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Just a note--despite its billing, technically the AT 822 isn't a single-point (coincident) microphone. Its capsules are spaced apart within the capsule head, and face outward from there. It's like "shrunken ORTF."
The perennial word of caution with an AT 822 is do not, do not, do not connect it to a phantom powered socket even for a moment--you'll blow out the circuitry. AT has a quick and not too expensive fix for that (my wife's voice teacher made the mistake once, so I took care of it for him) but it's a bummer.
I'll be at the AES later today--I'll ask at the A-T booth why the AT 822 and AT 825 have such different published response curves when the two products (at least according to their service techs) use the exact same capsules.
--best regards
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i thought it was an xy config? my buddy an i usta run one.
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Yeah, I would call it XY too. Sure it is approx 1-2" apart at the capsule front, but how close would you be if you used regular condensers (with windscreens). Yeah, you could be aligned vertically I suppose, but for practical purposes, consider it coincident.
Richard
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I've seen the NADY CM2S as well, but it seems harder to find and I've read complaints about it being too echo heavy. I haven't heard any samples though, would love to hear yours.
Gordon just posted Marty Stuart from Bele Chere to dime for me: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92218.0.html (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92218.0.html)
Thanks, Gordon! +T and another in 12.
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the AT822 was my first mic when I started taping. I ran it directly into my R1. It was a great and economical way to get started taping. I agree with pretty much everything said already. Good mic, capable of producing a quality recording. Mic placement is key though.
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Another round of T's! Thanks for all the advice and the samples. If I were to get the AT822, what sort of placement advice can you offer? i.e. how "close" is "close"? I'm thinking that if I were to draw a line from the mic to the outside of each of the stacks that they should form a 90 degree angle at the mic. Does this sound like where I'd want to be? I assume placement of the Nady would be the same?
I just want to be sure that it's practical for me to get into the required position for a good recording with these mics before I pull the trigger.
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Consider the Rode NT4... my frequent taping partner has one, and it pulls some nice tapes. And it runs on batteries. I think they usually go for more than this price range, but you might find one on ebay or something...
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Another round of T's! Thanks for all the advice and the samples. If I were to get the AT822, what sort of placement advice can you offer? i.e. how "close" is "close"? I'm thinking that if I were to draw a line from the mic to the outside of each of the stacks that they should form a 90 degree angle at the mic. Does this sound like where I'd want to be? I assume placement of the Nady would be the same?
I just want to be sure that it's practical for me to get into the required position for a good recording with these mics before I pull the trigger.
IMHO the mic placement you describe is a good rule of thumb, but I haven't found the Nady to be too terribly fussy with regards to placement. I think the AT822, AT825 and the Nady are marketed as external mics for videographers; so they should be pretty flexible for that purpose. The times I've used the Nady (ARU & DTB 5/9; Marty Stuart 7/27; Col Bruce Hampton & Quark Alliance 7/28) were all outdoors, ~30-40' from the stage for all except CBH & QA*, and got good results.
If you're interested in a sample CD from my ARU & DTB 5/9 for comparison purposes (there must be more than one version of these sets available for dl somewhere recorded with superior quality mics--there were a few in the section that evening), PM me your mailing address and I'll burn ya one.
*Had to run about 100 YARDS from the stage for Col Bruce (long story); needed some help from Audacity afterwards, but got a surprisingly listenable pull.
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Speaking of mics that are designed for video use... what about the Rode VideoMic? Does anyone use that for audio-only taping? Is it in the same league as the others mentioned here?